NudeTayne Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 (edited) 48 minutes ago, DawgX said: They can be watching anyone. Sure, they'll catch bad guys in the process, while violating everyone's right to privacy. Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather have freedom and my civil liberties not being violated rather than being a little safer. Couldn't a cop just make up an excuse to say they had probable cause? I'm not saying most cops would do that or if that happens often or not, but it'd be naive to think it never happens. I'm not even disagreeing with other things that you're saying. I think most cops are good people who mean well and they have an extremely tough job - especially in dangerous cities. Most cops I've met and known have been really good people - I can only think of one bad experience I had with a cop. So my point isn't about being anti-cop by any means, cause I am not. it's more about some of the laws themselves and the people who make them that I have issues with. You stated this much more succinctly than @bloatedwindbagTayne 23 minutes ago, Mind Character said: What the "Opioid Epidemic" has proven is that the most addictive drugs that make their way to the "street" and breakdown people and communities didn't get there by way of some shady, bad "Walter White Breaking Bad" types of people per se, but instead through Corporate pharmaceutical profit based decisions of people in suits and ties. Most of those people avoid any and all punishment, the few that do go to "prison" resorts or get slapped on the wrist while people that suffer with drug addiction are left to rot in cages for various periods of time and suffer more jail/prison related traumas that only aggravate their dependency on drugs. As a society we don't call for stopping those callous drug profiteers in their cars, arresting them, and putting them in jail in order to "get the drugs off the streets." There's a growing understanding in this country that people that do opioids are suffering and that the solution isn't throwing them all in jail/prison but instead solutions to help them and their communities get healthy. In the past and still presently, that understanding doesn't make it's way to marijuana dependent users who are suffering their own ills. This country has the largest prison population of any country on planet earth including China despite China being 4x as large. That's because we largely accept myths of "people arrested and in jail/prisons are bad guys/people." The reality of it is the only way to get to such a large prison/jail population relative to other places on earth is that the vast majority of those people placed in cages for years on end are humans that engaged in non-violent drug offenses many of which were related the plant marijuana. There's a history to why such laws were put and place and when and why the human cage populations boomed. There's also a record of what the people that engineered and implemented such laws really believed were their true motivations and rationale behind such laws, and in their own private words and conversations such laws and procedures were not to make society safer for citizens but instead crafted for other population control reasons. If this post wasn't so long, Tayne would have read it and then commented that it was one of your finest posts ever. Edited January 25, 2020 by NudeTayne tl;dr 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big poppa pump Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 43 minutes ago, Mind Character said: What the "Opioid Epidemic" has proven is that the most addictive drugs that make their way to the "street" and breakdown people and communities didn't get there by way of some shady, bad "Walter White Breaking Bad" types of people per se, but instead through Corporate pharmaceutical profit based decisions of people in suits and ties. Most of those people avoid any and all punishment, the few that do go to "prison" resorts or get slapped on the wrist while people that suffer with drug addiction are left to rot in cages for various periods of time and suffer more jail/prison related traumas that only aggravate their dependency on drugs. As a society we don't call for stopping those callous drug profiteers in their cars, arresting them, and putting them in jail in order to "get the drugs off the streets." And we don't see them as the stereotype in our minds of "bad guy." There's a growing understanding in this country that people that do opioids are suffering and that the solution isn't throwing them all in jail/prison but instead solutions to help them and their communities get healthy. In the past and still presently, that understanding doesn't make it's way to marijuana dependent users who are suffering their own ills. This country has the largest prison population of any country on planet earth including China despite China being 4x as large. That's because we largely accept myths of "people arrested and in jail/prisons are bad guys/people." The reality of it is the only way to get to such a large prison/jail population relative to other places on earth is that the vast majority of those people placed in cages for years on end are humans that engaged in non-violent drug offenses many of which were related the plant marijuana. There's a history to why such laws were put and place and when and why the human cage populations boomed. There's also a record of what the people that engineered and implemented such laws really believed were their true motivations and rationale behind such laws, and in their own private words and conversations such laws and procedures were not to make society safer for citizens but instead crafted for other population control reasons. Ya ya mind....I think most are aware that the opiod epidemic stems from greedy drug companies, and many of those bought their freedom, with tons of money leftover for themselves. Obviously there are many of those languishing in jail because of crimes. You wanna make it sound like poor babies...we are putting them in cages, and all they did was get hooked on some evil drugs. Would probably have a different perspective if said drug addict caused harm to you or a family member, in order to get money to fuel their drug habit. But screw the police for trying to keep us safe from these people. They are the true evil. Don't need a diatribe response either.....maybe I should join pines in the block fest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawgX Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 @Mind Character @pnies20 @big poppa pump @NudeTayne You all need a kumbaya moment and agree to disagree. Meanwhile, the rest of the Browns forum: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NudeTayne Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 29 minutes ago, big poppa pump said: Ya ya mind....I think most are aware that the opiod epidemic stems from greedy drug companies, and many of those bought their freedom, with tons of money leftover for themselves. Obviously there are many of those languishing in jail because of crimes. You wanna make it sound like poor babies...we are putting them in cages, and all they did was get hooked on some evil drugs. Would probably have a different perspective if said drug addict caused harm to you or a family member, in order to get money to fuel their drug habit. But screw the police for trying to keep us safe from these people. They are the true evil. Don't need a diatribe response either.....maybe I should join pines in the block fest. *writes diatribe and then says no more, though* 😂 Speaking entirely from experience here, Tayne's friend. One of the pillars of the the small town nearby where we were living at the time was murdered by a druggy he and his wife had taken in. Stop acting so patronizing. This is all spoken firsthand, not distant internet stories crap--doing some form outreach efforts with these folks on a daily basis. You sound like you live in a bubble. The reality is literally the exact opposite of everything you said in your top paragraph. These people are getting away with it freaking 99% of the time. The people in jail have a much higher rate of PTSD than the federal populous and had it long before drugs. Stop taking responsibility away from those hurting people purposely. We have more in jail than any other country. By your definition, that means human beings are objectively worse human beings than anywhere else on the planet. Tayne likes grumpy you, but the iggy is always yours to wield. P.S.: Come on. Stop the false binary already; Tayne appreciates what most police officers are doing and values what danger they willingly sign up for. Plenty of folks deserve to be in jail, but many truly are "poor babies", witnessing horrors since they were babies. Another anecdote...spent five little minutes talking with a homeless man about why he might not want to kill himself yesterday--told this to Tayne after xer said hi to him. Haven't seen him today. We'll see. He had substance abuse issues and could be dangerous to the wrong folks. It's still worth not just looking at him as "I feel safer if he's behind bars". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 I didn't read all of the crap posting we aren't supposed to be talking about. However, here is my opinion on the matter I think weed should be legal. Just like alcohol. However, even if it were legal you are still going to have to pass a DUI test if it is smelled when you are pulled over. Until it is legal in a specific area it should lead to a probable cause search if the officer wants to. Even if a human officer doesn't smell it a canine officer still may and that too should lead to a search. Just like seeing white powder on a drivers nose or needles on the passenger seat. Don't want to get searched for something illegal don't have something illegal. As far as a cop lying and saying they smell marijuana that is wrong and those cops shouldn't be cops. However, just because you don't smell green sitting in a car with weed in it doesn't mean others can't smell it. Like pnies said, 99% of cops mean well. Sure there will be mistakes none of us are perfect but the only real issue is the 1% that have agendas or are dirty, those need removed. Now, to tie this to football so my post covers the rules I was just talking about referees (cops) and the Patriots (those with drugs) and enforcement of cheating (breaking laws). 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, big poppa pump said: Ya ya mind....I think most are aware that the opiod epidemic stems from greedy drug companies, and many of those bought their freedom, with tons of money leftover for themselves. Obviously there are many of those languishing in jail because of crimes. You wanna make it sound like poor babies...we are putting them in cages, and all they did was get hooked on some evil drugs. Would probably have a different perspective if said drug addict caused harm to you or a family member, in order to get money to fuel their drug habit. But screw the police for trying to keep us safe from these people. They are the true evil. Don't need a diatribe response either.....maybe I should join pines in the block fest. "Keep us safe from these people" ... sounds like we have a completely different understanding of the human beings that use substances to cope with traumas or other ills. I think the characterization of people that use and possess marijuana as all stereotyped "dangers on the loose about to harm/injure us, our women, and children" doesn't match the reality of how, why, and where people use marijuana. Some people cope with food; others with the legalized drug of alcohol or other prescription medications. I don't see them as "poor babies" as you suggest; I see them as human beings with complex mental lives and all sorts of childhood and life traumas they're trying to live through as best as they can. Statistically speaking, most people become addicted to drugs because of physical pain, depression, moral injury, shame, or as a way to cope with and escape mentally from stressors. Addiction for most people is not a life they want as they destroy themselves and those they love. While I don't partake in it drugs personally, I don't see such people that turn to using the plant marijuana as people that need to be locked in cages so that my family, friends, and myself are safe. Just as there's a negative social stigma against people with mental health issues as being crazy and one to harm others; the same stigma exists with people that turn to drugs to cope with issues. Similarly, in this country people with mental health issues are locked in cages and don't get the help they need much like people that battle with drug addiction. You say, "you would probably have a different perspective if said drug addict caused harm to you or family.."... the funny thing is I actually have been. Lost thousands of dollars, suffered a terrible mental and physical toll AND STILL through the hell of it all I know that the solution isn't just filling up cages with human beings and letting people drown in the isolation and despair of forced confinement in fir profit prisons. There are better solutions that involve all levels of society. I think it's a crime against humanity to lock someone forcibly in a cage for prolonged periods of time for such reasons, but we strongly disagree. If you feel the need to block me because of the things I've posted about because you disagree with them, please do block me. Don't talk about it; be about it. Please join the blockfest of me. I really don't give a damn. Have at it. Edited January 26, 2020 by Mind Character 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NudeTayne Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 37 minutes ago, DawgX said: @Mind Character @pnies20 @big poppa pump @NudeTayne You all need a kumbaya moment and agree to disagree. Meanwhile, the rest of the Browns forum: Definitely fine agreeing to disagree, as that is the natural progression of most challenging conversations. Happy to end responding when others aren't mischaracterizing what was said or entire groups of people as essentially less than human. Tayne when hearing a well-meaning poster simultaneously attempt to play mediator to folks actually talking humanistically about observable reality and then patronizing those same folks: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 42 minutes ago, DawgX said: @Mind Character @pnies20 @big poppa pump @NudeTayne You all need a kumbaya moment and agree to disagree. Meanwhile, the rest of the Browns forum: My perception is that I'm chill, non-emotionally posting my perspective and responses to other people's disagreeing opinions while they are raging. I don't rage over internet forum discussions nor do I see disagreement and discussion as a big problem. But the spirit of your post is right though. I'm done with it. Some people would rather block out dissenting opinions rather than discuss other perspectives. Though Kumbaya is not Nigh, let it be what it is. It is what it is. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big poppa pump Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 Nor am i raging. I am definitely pro police, as i have several friends that are in this line of work. Have had a relative and friend lose their life in the line of duty. When I refer to"poor babies" it's not the person that smokes a little reefer to take the edge off. I really don't care. Those that are so deep into addiction that they are hurting others to support their drug habit...(and I'm not talking about emotionally), need to have their freedom taken away for their crimes imo. Can we as a society do more to help rehabilitate offenders? It would seem so....but how often do those re-offend? Statistics will tell you often. But since you say to "be about it" you have probably sent many a letter to those in power...including public officials and lawmakers. Hopefully your ideas will be heard and society will be a better place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistakey Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 Dta not even cops. Know your rights and especially dont trust people who say dumb *** **** like if youre innocent youve got nothing to hide. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistakey Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 1% of our nation is incarcerated. The rate is 5x higher than the next country. For the land of the free thats staggering. http://www.drugpolicy.org/issues/drug-war-statistics 1.4 million arrests for possession alone. overwhelmingly black population do the math 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 9 minutes ago, mistakey said: 1% of our nation is incarcerated. The rate is 5x higher than the next country. For the land of the free thats staggering. http://www.drugpolicy.org/issues/drug-war-statistics 1.4 million arrests for possession alone. overwhelmingly black population do the math Well 70% of India's prison population are un-sentenced. Kenya's prisons are at 285% population. Obviously controlling people isn't an easy job. We certainly aren't perfect and I'm sure the population of poor people in prison is by far the biggest factor more than race. When you have little or nothing you are more likely to try something illegal to get something. Narcotics actually probably even it out just a touch because that monkey can attach to anyone's back. We need a system to handle drug abuse that isn't prison but good luck with that. It takes a lot of attention and support and we currently doesn't have the means. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnies20 Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 24 minutes ago, mistakey said: 1% of our nation is incarcerated. The rate is 5x higher than the next country. For the land of the free thats staggering. http://www.drugpolicy.org/issues/drug-war-statistics 1.4 million arrests for possession alone. overwhelmingly black population do the math 1. Who is incarcerated for simple possession? Sure people are takin to booking on simple possession charges and the overwhelming majority make bond or are released at their first court date, etc. lets not act like people are in the state pen for having a 1/4 oz of weed. 2. It’s not as clear cut as “do the math”. Where are all of the arrests you’re worried about occurring? We’re the police called there? Citizen drug complaint? Self-initiated by the officer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistakey Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 17 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: Well 70% of India's prison population are un-sentenced. Kenya's prisons are at 285% population. Obviously controlling people isn't an easy job. We certainly aren't perfect and I'm sure the population of poor people in prison is by far the biggest factor more than race. When you have little or nothing you are more likely to try something illegal to get something. Narcotics actually probably even it out just a touch because that monkey can attach to anyone's back. We need a system to handle drug abuse that isn't prison but good luck with that. It takes a lot of attention and support and we currently doesn't have the means. No, the biggest factor by far is race. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistakey Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 5 minutes ago, pnies20 said: 1. Who is incarcerated for simple possession? Sure people are takin to booking on simple possession charges and the overwhelming majority make bond or are released at their first court date, etc. lets not act like people are in the state pen for having a 1/4 oz of weed. 2. It’s not as clear cut as “do the math”. Where are all of the arrests you’re worried about occurring? We’re the police called there? Citizen drug complaint? Self-initiated by the officer? I get that youre a cop. It really is that simple as do the math. Especially since the drug war laws have been rendered pretty terrible, unnecessary and expensive by even conservatives such as chuck grassley who made criminal justice reform a priority until sessions and barr took us back to the bad ol days of the 80s which focused on mandatory minimum sentences and not rehabilitation. We have more people imprisoned in the entire world. The majority of them are black and yet they make 10 percent of our population. when i was young i thought the prison song by system of a down was dumb but turns out it was the smartest song they wrote. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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