slay traded

[HashtagFTW]

14 hours later and I’m still bitter. 

[diehardlionfan]

1 hour ago, Karnage84 said:

Chad "Ochocinco" Johnson was one of my favourite players for a very long time. He flamed out in NE in part because he couldn't be his boisterous self. It's not what they do. There is a reason that Gronk isn't running back out of retirement despite Brady and co. asking him before. Amendola has commented on playing for BB. You give up a part of your personality and sacrifice some $ to win rings. Slay was accustomed to Caldwell's approach and Patricia came in trying to do the NE thing, because that is what he kmows and that has worked. Based on these comments, Slay seems to have been holding a grudge since day 1. For those who say he hadn't done anything, he is a multi-SB winning DC. Inexperienced as a HC and probably came in too eager but it's not like he went from WR coach to HC. 

Regardless of everyone’s assumptions and bias management and coaches have a responsibility to manage players. In any relationship it’s how the receiver of the message takes it not how our individual experiences relate.

Any management course will teach that to you. I’ve dealt with dozens of issues related to personal relations in the workplace from sexual harassment, etc. and in this case Patricias intent it irrelevant. It’s up to HIM to control his words and actions so as not to poison a work environment. 

How YOU as an individual have responded or taken comments in the past is irrelevant. It’s not up to anyone else to decide if Slay was thin skinned or over reacted. You weren’t there and the behaviour or comments weren’t directed at you.

[diehardlionfan]

2 hours ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Oh man. We said a lot worse stuff to each other in the patrol room. No question. Again, it was never personal. I've never been insulted more, and enjoyed myself more, than in those rooms.

What has Patricia done? Well, he was hired as head coach. I bet that's all he's concerned about.

It sounds like, from your quote, Patricia was clearly busting balls. It sounds like a joke, and a pretty clear one at that. Appropriate? Eh, I'm not there so it's tough to say. But it's clearly a joke, and I doubt he's the first (and only player) to be on that side of things from Patricia.

Of course, if Patricia leads this team to success, I doubt anyone will care.

TL, what happened to your is absolutely irrelevant and it’s totally out of bounds when assessing conflicts in the workplace. I’m all to familiar with dark humour and was involved in a profession as dark as any.

Unwanted comments, actions, harassment only matter in the eyes of the individual subjected to the behaviour. 

[HashtagFTW]

1 minute ago, diehardlionfan said:

Regardless of everyone’s assumptions and bias management and coaches have a responsibility to manage players. In any relationship it’s how the receiver of the message takes it not how our individual experiences relate.

Any management course will teach that to you. I’ve dealt with dozens of issues related to personal relations in the workplace from sexual harassment, etc. and in this case Patricias intent it irrelevant. It’s up to HIM to control his words and actions so as not to poison a work environment. 

How YOU as an individual have responded or taken comments in the past is irrelevant. It’s not up to anyone else to decide if Slay was thin skinned or over reacted. You weren’t there and the behaviour or comments weren’t directed at you.

This. As a leader, you gotta learn perception is reality. If your intent was a joke and the other person/people don’t take it as a joke, it wasn’t a joke. 
 

Plus, reading the quote, I don’t see how you could say that jokingly. Just a weird joke to say. 

[diehardlionfan]

Just now, HashtagFTW said:

This. As a leader, you gotta learn perception is reality. If your intent was a joke and the other person/people don’t take it as a joke, it wasn’t a joke. 
 

Plus, reading the quote, I don’t see how you could say that jokingly. Just a weird joke to say. 

I agree 100%.

It was a derogatory comment.

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

4 hours ago, diehardlionfan said:

TL, what happened to your is absolutely irrelevant and it’s totally out of bounds when assessing conflicts in the workplace. I’m all to familiar with dark humour and was involved in a profession as dark as any.

Unwanted comments, actions, harassment only matter in the eyes of the individual subjected to the behaviour. 

I mean, it's not irrelevant at all. There are places where ball busting is common.

If someone feels that a line is crossed, they need to make it known to that person. Did Slay ever approach Patricia about what was said? I don't know if we have that information.

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

4 hours ago, diehardlionfan said:

Mail it in?

Thats a very unfair assumption.

Just as likely an ******* coach was hired.

That was widely reported after the 2018 season.

[Karnage84]

1 hour ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

I mean, it's not irrelevant at all. There are places where ball busting is common.

If someone feels that a line is crossed, they need to make it known to that person. Did Slay ever approach Patricia about what was said? I don't know if we have that information.

It was addressed. A year later. Patricia didn't even remember saying it and he apologized. It was brought up after Diggs was traded. Slay expected he should have been given a heads up. 

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

1 hour ago, Karnage84 said:

It was addressed. A year later. Patricia didn't even remember saying it and he apologized. It was brought up after Diggs was traded. Slay expected he should have been given a heads up. 

Sounds about right. Glad to hear it. 

Slay did say that the second year with Patricia was good. 

[Karnage84]

9 hours ago, diehardlionfan said:

Mail it in?

Thats a very unfair assumption.

Just as likely an ******* coach was hired.

A lot of coaches can be a-holes. Some people respond well to that and others don't. There's a ton of chatter on a football field. 

I can see Slay being upset with the thought that 'Patricia doesn't think I am elite = I'm not going to get paid'... but that again, comes down to money. 

[LionArkie]

5 hours ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

I mean, it's not irrelevant at all. There are places where ball busting is common.

If someone feels that a line is crossed, they need to make it known to that person. Did Slay ever approach Patricia about what was said? I don't know if we have that information.

I also think the reverse it true too.  I have said things to people that have been accepted as humorous ball busting, which in turn created camaraderie.  Then done the same thing to others who took serious offense to it.  I had to apologize to them and change my rhetoric with that one person.  If we make the assumption Slay got upset over this one incident, then it is up to Patricia to make it right if he was ball busting, just  as much as it is up to Slay to say he didn't appreciate the comment.  Without knowing all the details, and reading the article at face value, I personally think Patricia messed up with Slay.

However  it also appears, from the article, Patricia has done a bunch of self reflection and has adjusted. Patricia has seen he cannot do what he did in NE, per Slay's comments, during his second season in Detroit.  I think that says something about Patricia as a coach as well.  It will be interesting to see how he adjusts in his third season and if he adjusts at all.

Edited March 20, 2020 by LionArkie

[Karnage84]

1 minute ago, LionArkie said:

I also think the reverse it true too.  I have said things to people that have been accepted as humorous ball busting, which in turn created camaraderie.  Then done the same thing to others who took serious offense to it.  I had to apologize to them and change my rhetoric with that one person.  If we make the assumption Slay got upset over this one incident, then it is up to Patricia to make it right if he was ball busting, just  as much as it is up to Slay to say he didn't appreciate the comment.  Without knowing all the details, and reading the article at face value, I personally think Patricia messed up with Slay.

However  it also appears, from the article, Patricia has done a bunch of self reflection and has and has adjusted. Patricia has seen he cannot do what he did in NE, per Slay's comments, during his second season in Detroit.  I think that says something about Patricia as a coach as well.  It will be interesting to see how he adjusts in his third season and if he adjusts at all.

That's the thing, Patricia didn't know it was an issue until a year later. Once it was brought up and he realized [Slay] was upset about it, he apologized. You can't address something without knowing it is an issue, especially if you operate differently. 

[LionArkie]

28 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

That's the thing, Patricia didn't know it was an issue until a year later. Once it was brought up and he realized [Slay] was upset about it, he apologized. You can't address something without knowing it is an issue, especially if you operate differently. 

I don't disagree with this at all. Sometimes, people cross lines that some cannot overcome.  It appears this was what happened to Slay. So, in that case you have two choices, one of them has to go for the benefit of both parties.  Some are going to fault Patricia for not being a drab human being.  Some are going to blame Slay for being a whiny baby.  What's right?
I think the thing about Patricia everyone needs to remember is the dude is a clown.

• example 1: Wears tshirt coming off the plane of Goodell with a clown face
• example 2: Threw a trash can at Gronk during a practice
• example 3: Messing with the kids at the senior bowl

I think this is who we hired and a die hard professional, which I think Slay is, may not take kindly to it.
So with this being said, I believe this leads us into some issues.

1. we run a system needing specific players to work so we limit the players we can get
2. We are trying to implement a new culture which limits the players we can get
3. Patricia style can grate on people which limits the players we can get (example Richard Sherman, Darius Slay)
4. We will try a plug and play once a player has come off the rookie contract and try to implement said plug and play style similar to NE which limits players we can get
5. We don't have a winning culture to over come the above issues
6. Detroit is not a desirable destination compared to Florida, California others.

Each one of these creates an issue for getting players via free agency and I don't believe it can be ignored.  Now, winning cures a lot of these ailments, but so far this hasn't happened under Quinn and MP and the draft is going to be relied on heavily to infuse talent into the roster, more so than normal.

Edited March 20, 2020 by LionArkie

[Karnage84]

2 minutes ago, LionArkie said:

I don't disagree with this at all. Sometimes, people cross lines that some cannot overcome.  It appears this was what happened to Slay. So, in that case you have two choices, one of them has to go for the benefit of both parties.  Some are going to fault Patricia for not being a drab human being.  Some are going to blame Slay for being a whiny baby.  What's right?
I think the thing about Patricia everyone needs to remember is the dude is a clown.

• example 1: Wears tshirt coming off the plane of Goodell with a clown face
• example 2: Threw a trash can at Gronk during a practice
• example 3: Messing with the kids at the senior bowl

I think this is who we hired and a die hard professional, which I think Slay is, may not take kindly to it.
So with this being said, I believe this leads us into some issues.

1. we run a system needing specific players to work so we limit the players we can get
2. We are trying to implement a new culture which limits the players we can get
3. Patricia style can grate on people which limits the players we can get (example Richard Sherman, Darius Slay)
4. We will try a plug and play once a player has come off the rookie contract and try to implement a plug and play style similar to NE which limits players we can get
5. We don't have a winning culture to over come the above issues
6. Detroit is not a desirable destination compared to Florida, California others.

Each one of these creates an issue for getting players via free agency and I don't believe it can be ignored.  Now, winning cures a lot of these ailments, but so far this hasn't happened and the draft is going to be relied on heavily to overcome.

What did he do at the Senior Bowl?

[LionArkie]

6 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

What did he do at the Senior Bowl?

I thought I read reports of him clowning with the kids there.  giving them hard times, jokingly.  A lot of the kids ate that stuff up.

 

***edit looking back through at videos of it, he was clowing with other people attending, my mistake.

Edited March 20, 2020 by LionArkie