slay traded

[Karnage84]

1 minute ago, LionArkie said:

I thought I read reports of him clowning with the kids there.  giving them hard times, jokingly.  A lot of the kids ate that stuff up.

A lot of them liked it. He was engaging with the players. He ran NFL practices and gave them a taste of what life was going to be like when they left the fairytale world of All Star games and the draft process. 

I don't see what the issue is there and why that would be considered a negative. 

[LionArkie]

3 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

A lot of them liked it. He was engaging with the players. He ran NFL practices and gave them a taste of what life was going to be like when they left the fairytale world of All Star games and the draft process. 

I don't see what the issue is there and why that would be considered a negative. 

I'm not sure if you are implying I made it a negative?  That was not my goal.  I am merely stating the guy is a clown as in he likes to joke around. To me that would be a positive, but others like slay, not so much.

Edited March 20, 2020 by LionArkie

[LionArkie]

4 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

A lot of them liked it. He was engaging with the players. He ran NFL practices and gave them a taste of what life was going to be like when they left the fairytale world of All Star games and the draft process. 

I don't see what the issue is there and why that would be considered a negative. 

This was the point I was going for in the first part of my post.

[Karnage84]

1. Quote

   We run a system needing specific players to work so we limit the players we can get

   Every system has profiles for players that are better fits. The Patricia-esque LB isn't going to work in a Tampa 2. Danny Shelton isn't going to work in a one-gap, penetrating defensive line scheme. 

2. Quote

   We are trying to implement a new culture which limits the players we can get

   These are players that understand the NE/'Do your job' culture and the personalities like Patricia and BB who are a part of that culture

3. Quote

   Patricia style can grate on people which limits the players we can get (example Richard Sherman, Darius Slay)

   Maybe Sherman wants a guy that is more hands off and won't try to push him like Patrica would. Shanahan is an offensive coach, Patricia is defensive. Saleh could be a lot more easy going on a guy like Sherm. 

4. Quote

   We will try a plug and play once a player has come off the rookie contract and try to implement said plug and play style similar to NE which limits players we can get

   If you can build up that kind of system, replacing players with cheaper, younger contracts that can perform the same job to the same extent, you're rolling. Overpaying guys just to keep them around isn't going to lead to future success. You have to determine your key positions/players and then manage the roster/cap to account for those shortfalls. OT and OC seem to be areas of focus while they don't want to pay $10M to an OG. 

5. Quote

   We don't have a winning culture to over come the above issues

   Winning games changes that. We have had a very lengthy history, long before Patrica was here, of a losing culture. If the team won 9 games last year, which was feasible (not guaranteed) with a healthy Stafford, there would be a different perception of this. 

6. Quote

   Detroit is not a desirable destination compared to Florida, California others.

   It is what it is. You can't do much about that. If the team builds up a good culture and starts winning, it'll become more of a desirable location for players. 

    

[Karnage84]

9 minutes ago, LionArkie said:

I'm not sure if you are implying I made it a negative?  That was not my goal.  I am merely stating the guy is a clown as in he likes to joke around. To me that would be a positive, but others like slay, not so much.

Gotcha. I took the phrase "dude is a clown" as a negative. Patricia feels like he's damned if he does/damned if he doesn't. If he's too hard, then it's a problem. If he tries to lighten up the mood and joke around, he isn't professional enough. All of this would be a nothing burger if they were in the playoff hunt last year. 

[LionArkie]

7 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

1. Every system has profiles for players that are better fits. The Patricia-esque LB isn't going to work in a Tampa 2. Danny Shelton isn't going to work in a one-gap, penetrating defensive line scheme. 

2. These are players that understand the NE/'Do your job' culture and the personalities like Patricia and BB who are a part of that culture

3. Maybe Sherman wants a guy that is more hands off and won't try to push him like Patrica would. Shanahan is an offensive coach, Patricia is defensive. Saleh could be a lot more easy going on a guy like Sherm. 

4. If you can build up that kind of system, replacing players with cheaper, younger contracts that can perform the same job to the same extent, you're rolling. Overpaying guys just to keep them around isn't going to lead to future success. You have to determine your key positions/players and then manage the roster/cap to account for those shortfalls. OT and OC seem to be areas of focus while they don't want to pay $10M to an OG. 

5. Winning games changes that. We have had a very lengthy history, long before Patrica was here, of a losing culture. If the team won 9 games last year, which was feasible (not guaranteed) with a healthy Stafford, there would be a different perception of this. 

6. It is what it is. You can't do much about that. If the team builds up a good culture and starts winning, it'll become more of a desirable location for players. 

    

I can appreciate this for a one to one defense.  It's the whole of it that is problematic.  6 scenarios which, as a whole, are more problematic to overcome.

Edited March 20, 2020 by LionArkie

[Karnage84]

1 minute ago, LionArkie said:

I can appreciate this for a one to one defense.  It's the whole of it that is problematic.  6 scenarios which, as a whole, are more problematic to overcome.

I don't live in Detroit or the area, so I can't really say a lot in terms of positives or negatives. I've always enjoyed my time visiting for games but you can usually have a positive experience when you go somewhere to have a fun time. Unless it's Buffalo. That place was terrible. 

With a few missing pieces from the defense that they want to run now on the roster, a bunch of draft picks, a healthy Stafford and a few lessons under his belt, there is a prime opportunity for Patrica to move things into the right direction. 

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

10 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

I don't live in Detroit or the area, so I can't really say a lot in terms of positives or negatives. I've always enjoyed my time visiting for games but you can usually have a positive experience when you go somewhere to have a fun time. Unless it's Buffalo. That place was terrible. 

With a few missing pieces from the defense that they want to run now on the roster, a bunch of draft picks, a healthy Stafford and a few lessons under his belt, there is a prime opportunity for Patrica to move things into the right direction. 

Absolutely. This is my exact source of optimism.

With Stafford, this team appeared to be a 'good' team. Flawed, sure, but good. We're now in position to add an elite defensive player to the mix, as well as other quality prospects.

Some will act surprised if this team makes the playoffs next year, but all of the clues are there.

[HashtagFTW]

The worst thing about this trade is... it’s reminding me a lot of how Chip Kelly ran the Eagles when he got there. 

[diehardlionfan]

On 2020-03-20 at 3:48 AM, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

I mean, it's not irrelevant at all. There are places where ball busting is common.

If someone feels that a line is crossed, they need to make it known to that person. Did Slay ever approach Patricia about what was said? I don't know if we have that information.

TL, embarrassing a professional athlete in front of his team mates isn’t ball busting. You simply don’t do that. It’s 2020 not 1956.

Your ideas of ball busting allows individuals to face work place discrimination, humiliation, intimidation etc.

While an individual should talk to his superior I will say it again, “it’s 2020 not 1956,” and every coach, manager, supervisor regardless of profession has a responsibility to understand inter personal relations, harassment guidelines etc. Patricia doesn’t get a pass because he’s ignorant.

 

[diehardlionfan]

On 2020-03-20 at 3:49 AM, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

That was widely reported after the 2018 season.

Sure, because reading it makes it true. Especially when every sports team has inside reporters who parrot a teams message to remain an insider.

[diehardlionfan]

8 hours ago, HashtagFTW said:

The worst thing about this trade is... it’s reminding me a lot of how Chip Kelly ran the Eagles when he got there. 

It’s simply a continuation of the Lions alienating players. The only star level player that has hung in there is Stafford. Other than him it seems every star is either traded or walks away early.

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

2 hours ago, diehardlionfan said:

TL, embarrassing a professional athlete in front of his team mates isn’t ball busting. You simply don’t do that. It’s 2020 not 1956.

Your ideas of ball busting allows individuals to face work place discrimination, humiliation, intimidation etc.

While an individual should talk to his superior I will say it again, “it’s 2020 not 1956,” and every coach, manager, supervisor regardless of profession has a responsibility to understand inter personal relations, harassment guidelines etc. Patricia doesn’t get a pass because he’s ignorant.

I think we're speaking from two different perspectives, and that's fine.

In the business world, with management courses and workplace guidelines, that stuff may be unacceptable. In the military, law enforcement (and perhaps professional sports) environments, ball busting is commonplace. It builds camaraderie and functions as a source of stress relief. And, if one party crosses the line, they approach that person and make it known.

You can say that this is wrong or unacceptable, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Not only does it, there are benefits that it provides, so long as one approaches the other if a line is crossed.

[Michael1976]

1 hour ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

I think we're speaking from two different perspectives, and that's fine.

In the business world, with management courses and workplace guidelines, that stuff may be unacceptable. In the military, law enforcement (and perhaps professional sports) environments, ball busting is commonplace. It builds camaraderie and functions as a source of stress relief. And, if one party crosses the line, they approach that person and make it known.

You can say that this is wrong or unacceptable, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Not only does it, there are benefits that it provides, so long as one approaches the other if a line is crossed.

It’s well know that work place discrimination, humiliation, intimidation etc. exist, what blows my mind is how anyone can say it’s a good thing as long as the person/persons enduring such things remain silent?

[Karnage84]

15 minutes ago, Michael1976 said:

It’s well know that work place discrimination, humiliation, intimidation etc. exist, what blows my mind is how anyone can say it’s a good thing as long as the person/persons enduring such things remain silent?

He didn't say anything about remaining silent. At all. He is saying that it is a common practice in certain team based environments like the military and in the police forces. There are a lot of things that are accepted as parts of those cultures that would be widely unacceptable in a general business setting. Definitions of professionalism vary depending on what field that you're in. For an office worker, spending 3 hours on a Saturday shooting pistol is a hobby and arguably a waste of time while it is essential training and a requirement to operate in a military/police setting efficiently. For a professional athlete, coming in out of shape and not watching film are two examples of unprofessional behaviour, while watching 3 hours of football for all of us is a hobby and arguably a waste of time. 

I've said it before - there are some players that do better with a "players coach' that is softer while there are other players who need that push and to be held accountable. You have to learn how to manage people and going from a coordinator position with a singular focus to being the CEO as a HC is a big transition. Patricia probably didn't realize how sensitive that Slay is and took the wrong approach in trying to encourage him to keep at a high level and push to be even better. It's not up to Slay to remain silent but if it was THAT much of an issue for him where he was that upset for a year, then he should have sat down with Patricia and told him how he felt about the whole thing and/or demanded a trade in 2018. To not say anything for a year, then say everything is cool in 2019 and that he's a good coach (which he has acknowledged) but it wasn't going to last is a bit of a cop out.