ramssuperbowl99 Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, diehardlionfan said: Well prior to the onset of WW2 people refused to acknowledge signs of what was coming. If people aren’t vigilant from the onset the end results can be frightening. Carrying a card is dangerous policy. We’ve already seen debate about quarantining at risk individuals and opening it up for others. Those are real dangerous discussions. The escalation from card carrying is not relevant here unless there are secret discussions that we aren't privy to where people would end up rounding up and slaughtering people who don't have immunity to COVID-19. This is obviously being floated as a temporary measure to allow more people out of quarantine faster. And, I'm not saying people need to be okay with it - the honest truth of where I stand is that I'm not sure yet - but I don't think it's reasonable to simultaneously say "we can't have people inside for 18 months" and then when presented with a door number 3, say "well nope that's not an option" out of hand without hearing a more detailed proposal. Edited April 27, 2020 by ramssuperbowl99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehardlionfan Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 1 minute ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: I don't really feel like getting into a debate having to defend every single statement the WHO has made, but they didn't walk anything back. Here's their initial brief: I bolded the conclusion, which is 100% accurate. They’ve walked back their position on face masks and they were dead wrong about border closures. Frankly there’s no debate to be had on numerous instances where advice from the WHO has been irresponsible and simply wrong. My statement was about their diminished credibility, in my eyes, not the singular issue you’ve focused on. As for passports. The concept is faulty regardless of underlying science. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenos Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 1 hour ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: I think it's worth noting that the WHO is saying you can't assume it right now for the basis of making policy, not that there won't be COVID-19 immunity in a (large) fraction of people who do recover. They're also worried about the accuracy of the antibody tests, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehardlionfan Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 1 minute ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: The escalation from card carrying is not relevant here unless there are secret discussions that we aren't privy to where people would end up rounding up and slaughtering people who don't have immunity to COVID-19. This is obviously being floated as a temporary measure to allow more people out of quarantine faster. And, I'm not saying people need to be okay with it - the honest truth of where I stand is that I'm not sure yet - but I don't think it's reasonable to simultaneously say "we can't have people inside for 18 months" and then when presented with a door number 3, say "well nope that's not an option". Oh bullocks. of course it’s relevant and you don’t need to carry the concept to extremes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 Just now, Xenos said: They're also worried about the accuracy of the antibody tests, right? Correct. The original brief goes in to why. Cross-reactivity in any ELISA or ECL test (which is what they detect antibodies with most of the time) is always a huge challenge. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, diehardlionfan said: Oh bullocks. of course it’s relevant and you don’t need to carry the concept to extremes. It's really not. The rationale as to why cards are being issued is absolutely critical. The intent here is to get people back to their lives faster, and the manifestation of the law would obviously have to include checks and balances which wouldn't have been present historically because the intention here is entirely different. If you can't see how that is different from Nazis using paperwork to start a genocide, then there's really no point in discussing it any more. Edited April 27, 2020 by ramssuperbowl99 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 1 minute ago, Xenos said: They're also worried about the accuracy of the antibody tests, right? In the rush to get the tests out quickly, short cuts and poor lab practices caused some of them to be poor tests with false positives/false negatives that wouldn't pass muster under normal conditions. In some cases they couldn't get the reagents they wanted and had to substitute, leading to more issues with quality 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 Just now, Shanedorf said: In the rush to get the tests out quickly, short cuts and poor lab practices caused some of them to be poor tests with false positives/false negatives that wouldn't pass muster under normal conditions. In some cases they couldn't get the reagents they wanted and had to substitute, leading to more issues with quality Were they spiking with monkey serum or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenos Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 4 minutes ago, diehardlionfan said: They’ve walked back their position on face masks and they were dead wrong about border closures. Frankly there’s no debate to be had on numerous instances where advice from the WHO has been irresponsible and simply wrong. My statement was about their diminished credibility, in my eyes, not the singular issue you’ve focused on. As for passports. The concept is faulty regardless of underlying science. The WHO does have its issues. But I'm more forgiving because they were operating on current data at the time that turned out to be wrong. Though I think the mask issue was misinterpreted. New data showed that the virus could stay in the air longer than expected. And everything they said in the past about mask still hold true ie. creating a false sense of security, protects others and not the user. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 All of the vaccine work and drug work in China is being controlled by the Chinese Military per the latest updates If you still believed in any news coming out of China, its probably time to stop. I suggested earlier that the reason the remdesivir trial couldn't enroll enough patients in China wasn't related to the lack of patients, but rather to the lack of available patients and that seems to be the case. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 1 minute ago, Xenos said: The WHO does have its issues. But I'm more forgiving because they were operating on current data at the time that turned out to be wrong. Though I think the mask issue was misinterpreted. New data showed that the virus could stay in the air longer than expected. And everything they said in the past about mask still hold true ie. creating a false sense of security, protects others and not the user. This is also the first pandemic of this scale in the era of social media. The WHO had more noise and more amplification of statements then they've ever had to deal with before. They aren't the first organization to struggle to adapt to all of the consequences of the sheer glut of information they had to swallow and spit back out. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 1 minute ago, Xenos said: The WHO does have its issues. But I'm more forgiving because they were operating on current data at the time that turned out to be wrong. Though I think the mask issue was misinterpreted. New data showed that the virus could stay in the air longer than expected. And everything they said in the past about mask still hold true ie. creating a false sense of security, protects others and not the user. Yeah there has to be some level of patience with stuff like this, it’s uncharted territory. People want answers and info NOW and they don’t always have definitive info at that time, so they give the best info they can. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, Xenos said: The WHO does have its issues. But I'm more forgiving because they were operating on current data at the time that turned out to be wrong. Though I think the mask issue was misinterpreted. New data showed that the virus could stay in the air longer than expected. And everything they said in the past about mask still hold true ie. creating a false sense of security, protects others and not the user. I also think they wanted the available masks for the healthcare workers - had they suggested masks for the masses earlier - the hospitals would have faced even worse shortages. Rock / Hard Place 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 1 minute ago, Shanedorf said: I also think they wanted the available masks for the healthcare workers - had they suggested masks for the masses earlier - the hospitals would have faced even worse shortages. Rock / Hard Place I agree with this. Say “wear masks” and the PPE shortage in hospitals is far, far worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malfatron Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 31 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: I understand why people are sensitive to the issues of needing approval to leave a quarantine, but the comparisons to WW2 are pretty hyperbolic. WW2 is worse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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