2020 Draft - Your Guy

[coordinator0]

We're a little over a week away from the draft. Most evaluations are done, and your boards are set. But who's that one prospect that you just can't find a lot of fault in. Someone that you believe would practically be a sure bet to succeed as a Raven. It doesn't matter what round the player is expected to go in, the only thing that counts is the faith you have in that prospect.

So who is it? Make your case.

[Danand]

Ravens have a high floor but we could use more playmakers. A playmaker within our range is Antoine Winfield Jr. 

Evil tongues will tell you, that he is injury prone, doesn’t have the size for the position and is a 1 year wonder.

But those two injuries, lets look at them. 1 was a harmstring injury. He played 4 games but a harmstring injury at the wrong time equals a season ending injury. The second was a non contact foot injury, not a lisfranc, not a bad break. In a short college season, those injuries where unlucky, but shouldn’t be a concern and shouldn’t linger.

Now, what we would we get is a playmaker who comes off a 7 interception season, he tackles well and he reads the field well, he can cover in the slot, he can play in the box and he can play deep. With how we rotate, even with how deep we are in the secondary, he will see the field a lot. Eventually, when Thomas gets older//slower, we will have his succession in place.

With a team that is build from back to front, Antoine Winfield Jr. Is the man we should be drafting when we are on the clock with our first pick in the draft.

[diamondbull424]

Yeah Antoine Winfield Jr to @Danand credit seems to be pretty bust proof from my perspective... outside of durability of course.

But to that credit, all the prospects that I have as my “guys” have issues that make me nervous:

Antoine Winfield Jr- durability

Grant Delpit- Shoulder injury, protecting himself, or just poor tackler?

Zack Baun- advanced age and size

Tyler Biadasz- Hip and shoulder “joint” injuries (unlike Winfield Jr both of these injuries are definitely related, even if he did play though them at a high level).

Jonathan Taylor- college workload

 

That all said if I had to pick ONE guy out of the above list that I think is least likely to bust and with my least concern, it would be Jonathan Taylor, RB, Wisconsin. I’m sure his second contract will definitely present a legitimate issue considering his workload, but Taylor might be the most prolific RB in college football history. He averaged 2000 yds rushing in his three seasons there... that is unheard of a RB doing. He stepped on the field as a true freshman and dominated the competition. I have no doubt that he would step onto the field in the pros and be an elite RB from day one. Plus he has very nice and largely under-explored receiving ability. If we take Taylor there’s no doubt in my mind that he will become the greatest RB in Ravens history above both Jamal Lewis and Ray Rice. What’s more we could insulate him early on from as many carries with having Mark Ingram and Gus Edwards/Justice Hill.

[sp6488]

1 hour ago, diamondbull424 said:

Yeah Antoine Winfield Jr to @Danand credit seems to be pretty bust proof from my perspective... outside of durability of course.

But to that credit, all the prospects that I have as my “guys” have issues that make me nervous:

Antoine Winfield Jr- durability

Grant Delpit- Shoulder injury, protecting himself, or just poor tackler?

Zack Baun- advanced age and size

Tyler Biadasz- Hip and shoulder “joint” injuries (unlike Winfield Jr both of these injuries are definitely related, even if he did play though them at a high level).

Jonathan Taylor- college workload

 

That all said if I had to pick ONE guy out of the above list that I think is least likely to bust and with my least concern, it would be Jonathan Taylor, RB, Wisconsin. I’m sure his second contract will definitely present a legitimate issue considering his workload, but Taylor might be the most prolific RB in college football history. He averaged 2000 yds rushing in his three seasons there... that is unheard of a RB doing. He stepped on the field as a true freshman and dominated the competition. I have no doubt that he would step onto the field in the pros and be an elite RB from day one. Plus he has very nice and largely under-explored receiving ability. If we take Taylor there’s no doubt in my mind that he will become the greatest RB in Ravens history above both Jamal Lewis and Ray Rice. What’s more we could insulate him early on from as many carries with having Mark Ingram and Gus Edwards/Justice Hill.

He almost certainly would be if he didn't declare early.

https://athlonsports.com/college-football/college-football-all-time-rushing-leaders

Quote

 

1. Ron Dayne, 7,125 yards
Wisconsin (1996-99)

The "Dayne Train" started all four seasons and averaged 305 carries per year. What separated him from other workman backs is that he averaged 5.8 yards a carry.

2. Ricky Williams, 6,592 yards
Texas (1995-98)

Williams became the NCAA's all-time leading rusher in the now-defunct Thanksgiving Day showdown with Texas A&M in 1998. He had broken a record that stood for 22 years, but Dayne surpassed it the next season.

3. Tony Dorsett, 6,526 yards
Pittsburgh (1973-76)

Dorsett rushed for over 1,000 yards in every season from his sophomore year of high school in 1970 to the strike-shortened 1982 NFL season.

4. Donnel Pumphrey, 6,405 yards
San Diego State (2013-16)

The NCAA did not count yards in bowl games until 2002. If that practice was still in place, Pumphrey would be college football's all-time leading rusher.

5. Charles White, 6,245 yards
USC (1976-79)

White rushed for more than 3,900 yards in his final two seasons and won the Heisman Trophy in 1979.

6. Jonathan Taylor, 6,174 yards
Wisconsin (2017-19)

With a record 12 200-yard rushing games, no back has run for as many yards as Taylor has in three seasons. If he had stayed for his senior year, he would have had a very good shot at leaving Wisconsin as the FBS' all-time leading rusher.

7. DeAngelo Williams, 6,026 yards
Memphis (2002-05)

Williams' 34 100-yard rushing games and 7,573 career all-purpose yards are still NCAA records.

8. Royce Freeman, 5,621 yards
Oregon (2014-17)

Freeman is the Pac-12 career leader in rushing touchdowns with 60. He was extremely durable during his years in Eugene; his 947 attempts are 10th in FBS history.

9. Travis Prentice, 5,596 yards
Miami (Ohio) (1996-99)

A scoring machine, Prentice recorded 25 games with at least two touchdowns and left Miami with 73 career scores.

10. Cedric Benson, 5,540 yards
Texas (2001-04)

The late Benson earned consensus All-American honors and won the Doak Walker Award in 2004. He picked up at least 1,000 yards and 12 rushing touchdowns in each of his four seasons at Texas.

 

 

[SalvadorsDeli]

Honestly might be wildly off-base with this because it's not like I'm really an expert of any sort on evaluating offensive linemen, but I feel like the closer we get the more I've been looking at Isiah Wilson as an ideal pick at 28. Just feel like we can swing him inside at guard and get immediate above average/Pro Bowl-caliber play at a critical position if we pick him. 

Justin Jefferson continues to be probably my biggest draft crush - feel like Lamar would love to have a big slot target, and he compliments Hollywood perfectly. But he's likely not available unless we trade up by a couple of spots which I doubt we do.

In terms of 'can't fail' prospects I don't think he ends up a star but I feel like Malik Harrison is an immediate positive contributor in our ILB rotation/platoon if we get him. He's NFL-ready and good at things we need and we don't necessarily need to use him much beyond that. 

[ThatJaxxenGuy]

16 minutes ago, BaltimoreTerp said:

Honestly might be wildly off-base with this because it's not like I'm really an expert of any sort on evaluating offensive linemen, but I feel like the closer we get the more I've been looking at Isiah Wilson as an ideal pick at 28. Just feel like we can swing him inside at guard and get immediate above average/Pro Bowl-caliber play at a critical position if we pick him. 

Justin Jefferson continues to be probably my biggest draft crush - feel like Lamar would love to have a big slot target, and he compliments Hollywood perfectly. But he's likely not available unless we trade up by a couple of spots which I doubt we do.

In terms of 'can't fail' prospects I don't think he ends up a star but I feel like Malik Harrison is an immediate positive contributor in our ILB rotation/platoon if we get him. He's NFL-ready and good at things we need and we don't necessarily need to use him much beyond that. 

I am hoping a guard is the pick. We need to ease the impact of Yanda being gone. 

[M.10.E]

I don't do a lot of scouting like most the board, but I do watch quite a bit of CFB.

I know we have a very very slim chance of grabbing him but, Jerry Jeudy.

Edited April 15, 2020 by M.10.E

[diamondbull424]

2 hours ago, M.10.E said:

I don't do a lot of scouting like most the board, but I do watch quite a bit of CFB.

I know we have a very very slim chance of grabbing him but, Jerry Jeudy.

Love Jeudy’s fit with this club. Looking like a pipe dream since the 49ers made that trade, but if he somehow falls to say... pick 17... I’m absolutely in for mobilizing for his services. He has easily the best route release of a receiver I’ve ever scouted... at least since I’ve been getting more technical in all that. He creates separation so quickly, sets up his routes so masterfully. He’s a bust proof receiver IMO and the only issue is his hands are only “good” and not Hayden Hurst/Larry Fitzgerald level elite claws. Beyond that he’s going to basically be a plug and play 1200 yds WR... and you know he’s in the gym right now... as we speak.

That and he shares my birthday so I‘m all in there. Just don’t think our front office will be for giving up the level of picks. Though for me if someone told me we could trade our 1st round pick and Hayden Hurst for Jerry Jeudy... I would’ve done it. Though opportunity cost doesn’t always break down so easily.

edit: To add onto that if we could move up for only our 1st/2nd I’m in. But to get him would likely require 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. That’s too much opportunity cost.

Prior to the 49ers making that trade I thought there was a shot Jeudy might fall a little further. Though perhaps a team like the Jets might be interested in Matt Judon and we could perhaps do something like:

1st- 28th: 660 pts, 2nd- 60th: 300 pts, and Judon (valued in this deal at 344 pts = 56th pick)

For

1st- 11th: 1250 pts, 4th- 120th: 54 pts

We stuck in the second round anyway and IIRC we had a bunch of 4th round picks one year and crushed that round. Think we could do very well with Jeudy, a 2nd, two 3rds, and three 4ths, 5th (and 7th) in this draft. Plenty of quality picks to address the pass rush, IOL, swing OT, TE, ILB, S, and NCB.

Edited April 15, 2020 by diamondbull424

[Ray Reed]

I really really like Yetur Gross Matos. Would be ecstatic if we got him.

Side bar whenever I watch them - to me - Deandre Swift >>> Jonathan Taylor

[SalvadorsDeli]

Don't know if this maybe just warrants its own thread, but I'm curious what other people's opposite lists look like - the guys who might be on our radar to that you're praying we stay away from. Couple that come to mind for me:

Kenneth Murray - feel like most ppl here are on the same page in regards to him. Prefer Brooks or Harrison in Rounds 2 or 3, though Murray in the 2nd would also be fine. But he's a rotational piece with a high ceiling starting out, not the CJ Mosley replacement he's being touted as, so 28 is way too steep a price.

Curtis Weaver - seems like Jaylon Ferguson 2.0 to me. Ideally we'll hit the sweet spot one of these times with our EDGE picks between 'productive college stiffs' and 'athletic projects' but still err towards the latter if given the choice.

Chase Claypool - he is Miles Boykin. Boykin might pan out, but I don't want to bet our receiving corps on 2 Miles Boykins.

Donovan People-Jones - he's the cutoff to me where you go from getting awesome value on 2nd/3rd rounders at receiver to just getting normie mid-round prospects. 

Cole Kmet - yeah let's not trade Hayden Hurst just to use the pick to replace him with a worse Hayden Hurst.

Grant Delpit - another where it's round-dependent. Would be good value in the 2nd but not good enough a 'BPA' to justify ignoring our other needs at 28. 

 

[Ray Reed]

2 minutes ago, BaltimoreTerp said:

Don't know if this maybe just warrants its own thread, but I'm curious what other people's opposite lists look like - the guys who might be on our radar to that you're praying we stay away from. Couple that come to mind for me:

Kenneth Murray - feel like most ppl here are on the same page in regards to him. Prefer Brooks or Harrison in Rounds 2 or 3, though Murray in the 2nd would also be fine. But he's a rotational piece with a high ceiling starting out, not the CJ Mosley replacement he's being touted as, so 28 is way too steep a price.

Curtis Weaver - seems like Jaylon Ferguson 2.0 to me. Ideally we'll hit the sweet spot one of these times with our EDGE picks between 'productive college stiffs' and 'athletic projects' but still err towards the latter if given the choice.

Chase Claypool - he is Miles Boykin. Boykin might pan out, but I don't want to bet our receiving corps on 2 Miles Boykins.

Donovan People-Jones - he's the cutoff to me where you go from getting awesome value on 2nd/3rd rounders at receiver to just getting normie mid-round prospects. 

Cole Kmet - yeah let's not trade Hayden Hurst just to use the pick to replace him with a worse Hayden Hurst.

Grant Delpit - another where it's round-dependent. Would be good value in the 2nd but not good enough a 'BPA' to justify ignoring our other needs at 28. 

 

Would cry if we took Denzel Mims. Straightline athlete, doesn’t look natural catching the ball/working the sidelines, limited route tree.

Guy is Breshad Perriman 2.0. At least the Ravens version of Perriman.

[diamondbull424]

41 minutes ago, Ray Reed said:

I really really like Yetur Gross Matos. Would be ecstatic if we got him.

Side bar whenever I watch them - to me - Deandre Swift >>> Jonathan Taylor

 

23 minutes ago, Ray Reed said:

Would cry if we took Denzel Mims. Straightline athlete, doesn’t look natural catching the ball/working the sidelines, limited route tree.

Guy is Breshad Perriman 2.0. At least the Ravens version of Perriman.

Have to say we certainly must disagree on some prospects. Don’t get me wrong I like DeAndre Swift. I think he’s slightly superior to where I would’ve had Sony Michel coming out of Georgia. Have him as a 4 star level player. I also had Nick Chubb as a 4 star player as well, but I like Chubb coming out more than I like Swift. With Taylor however I see a 5 star player. He excels running behind inside zone, outside zone, trap, gap, etc. There’s literally nothing he can’t do. Same with Swift on that front... only Williams has elite breakaway speed that Swift can’t match. He has good speed, but requires more time to build up to it whereas Taylor is reminiscent of when I scoured Adrian Peterson from a speed standpoint.

Different styles as he runs much more similarly to Arian Foster with that patience and vision. Swift reminds me of... and I’ll have to rewatch but probably a Clinton Portis. Which is obviously a very good 1500-1800 YFS type of back that will bring is with each carry. Feel his grade is higher than Michel because I didn’t trust whether Michel could be the actual bell cow and he’s proven that he can’t be that guy and stay healthy.

But yeah with Taylor I see a no questions asked 1800-2300 YFS type of back that will give defensive coordinators nightmares trying to prepare for... add in Lamar Jackson and it literally wouldn’t be fair.

In terms of Denzel Mims... I think he definitely has things he needs to work on but his route releases aren’t bad, plus his physical playing style will translate to the pros where DeAndre Hopkins has made a career out of that kind of style of play. Throw in the 4.3 speed for when the ball is actually in his hands and boom. I definitely don’t see straight line only. He’s not a stiff player, he has oily hips, he’s just not as good at stopping on a dime, however he makes up for that masterfully by using his physicality to push off of the defender to give himself the boost, kind of like when you’re dunking on someone and you push off on them to gain increased lift for an easier slam.

So that’s interesting. Obviously either one of us could be wrong here. But it’s interesting how differently we see these two particular players.

Edited April 15, 2020 by diamondbull424

[diamondbull424]

28 minutes ago, BaltimoreTerp said:

Don't know if this maybe just warrants its own thread, but I'm curious what other people's opposite lists look like - the guys who might be on our radar to that you're praying we stay away from. Couple that come to mind for me:

Kenneth Murray - feel like most ppl here are on the same page in regards to him. Prefer Brooks or Harrison in Rounds 2 or 3, though Murray in the 2nd would also be fine. But he's a rotational piece with a high ceiling starting out, not the CJ Mosley replacement he's being touted as, so 28 is way too steep a price.

Curtis Weaver - seems like Jaylon Ferguson 2.0 to me. Ideally we'll hit the sweet spot one of these times with our EDGE picks between 'productive college stiffs' and 'athletic projects' but still err towards the latter if given the choice.

Chase Claypool - he is Miles Boykin. Boykin might pan out, but I don't want to bet our receiving corps on 2 Miles Boykins.

Donovan People-Jones - he's the cutoff to me where you go from getting awesome value on 2nd/3rd rounders at receiver to just getting normie mid-round prospects. 

Cole Kmet - yeah let's not trade Hayden Hurst just to use the pick to replace him with a worse Hayden Hurst.

Grant Delpit - another where it's round-dependent. Would be good value in the 2nd but not good enough a 'BPA' to justify ignoring our other needs at 28. 

 

Along this note, passionate dislike would be Kenneth Murray. Probably wouldn’t want him until the 3rd round.

Most of the TEs in the class that I’ve watched outside of Josiah Deguara.

Those Notre Dame pass rushers.

Thats about all I can think of, feel the strength of this class is in the second and third rounds.

[berlin calling]

Can't help but think Baun is Correa redux. Both tested nearly identical. I don't want him on this team.

[Ray Reed]

15 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

 

Have to say we certainly must disagree on some prospects. Don’t get me wrong I like DeAndre Swift. I think he’s slightly superior to where I would’ve had Sony Michel coming out of Georgia. Have him as a 4 star level player. I also had Nick Chubb as a 4 star player as well, but I like Chubb coming out more than I like Swift. With Taylor however I see a 5 star player. He excels running behind inside zone, outside zone, trap, gap, etc. There’s literally nothing he can’t do. Same with Swift on that front... only Williams has elite breakaway speed that Swift can’t match. He has good speed, but requires more time to build up to it whereas Taylor is reminiscent of when I scoured Adrian Peterson from a speed standpoint.

Different styles as he runs much more similarly to Arian Foster with that patience and vision. Swift reminds me of... and I’ll have to rewatch but probably a Clinton Portis. Which is obviously a very good 1500-1800 YFS type of back that will bring is with each carry. Feel his grade is higher than Michel because I didn’t trust whether Michel could be the actual bell cow and he’s proven that he can’t be that guy and stay healthy.

But yeah with Taylor I see a no questions asked 1800-2300 YFS type of back that will give defensive coordinators nightmares trying to prepare for... add in Lamar Jackson and it literally wouldn’t be fair.

In terms of Denzel Mims... I think he definitely has things he needs to work on but his route releases aren’t bad, plus his physical playing style will translate to the pros where DeAndre Hopkins has made a career out of that kind of style of play. Throw in the 4.3 speed for when the ball is actually in his hands and boom. I definitely don’t see straight line only. He’s not a stiff player, he has oily hips, he’s just not as good at stopping on a dime, however he makes up for that masterfully by using his physicality to push off of the defender to give himself the boost, kind of like when you’re dunking on someone and you push off on them to gain increased lift for an easier slam.

So that’s interesting. Obviously either one of us could be wrong here. But it’s interesting how differently we see these two particular players.

Yeah, fair. Who knows who'll end up being right. Watch us both be wrong somehow haha.

When I watch Swift I see Dalvin Cook.

When I watch Taylor I see a slightly better Doug Martin/James Conner hybrid.

Edited April 15, 2020 by Ray Reed