Draft Busts

[Scoundrel]

3 hours ago, VanS said:

No.  I said he was a good kid and not some criminal or bad guy that some were making him out to be.  Maybe its just me but I don't think of addicts as "bad" people.  If the folks who were calling him a bad guy were simply referring to his dependancy on weed then they should have made that more clear.  But I do clearly remember the credit card incident and his alleged sexual assault case being used by some on here to make him into a bad person.

I will still defend Antonio Callaway as a good kid and elite talent.  But unfortunately he seems to be on the path to throwing it all away like Josh Gordon because of his addiction. 

You’ll always have an excuse to not be wrong. What’s the excuse for Josh Dobbs again?

[Soko]

3 hours ago, VanS said:

That statement was directed more at when he goes against the consensus versus when he's followed the herd.  That's why the top examples I gave were him picking Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen as his top QBs in the 2018 draft when everyone else had Sam Darnold and in 2017 when he had Patrick Mahomes as the top QB when everyone else had Trubisky or Watson.  I didn't really cite examples of him liking the same people everyone else did before the draft.

So he’s “the best in media” and has “best track record”, but when he says he likes a player you don’t, then maybe he doesn’t know everything? Sounds convenient.

[NYRaider]

3 hours ago, MWil23 said:

Friendly reminder that Jerry Rice ran a 4.71 40 and so did Larry Fitz. 

Jeudy is 6'1 and a polished route runner with great hands and RAC ability.

Michael Thomas ran a 4.57, DeAndre Hopkins ran a 4.57, Cooper Kupp ran a 4.62, and Keenan Allen ran a 4.72. 

If you look at the top 20 WR's in the league last year in terms of receiving yards: 

• 4.3 guys (2): Jones and Brown

• 4.4 guys (7): Godwin, Parker, Cooper, Moore, Robinson, Diggs, and Lockett

• 4.5 guys (8): Thomas, Golladay, Hopkins, Evans, Woods, Edelman, Sutton, Gallup 

• 4.6 guys (2): Landry and Kupp

• 4.7 guys (1): Allen

With the average 40 time for those 20 players being 4.50. 

[JaguarCrazy2832]

Could've sworn I clicked the draft busts thread but I'm seeing an awful lot of Michael Thomas talk...

[jrry32]

5 hours ago, VanS said:

Nope.  I thought Courtland Sutton was a bust before the 2018 draft.  Now I think he's on his way to being the best WR in the NFL.  If I'm wrong I will admit it.

You just want me to admit I'm wrong on your terms.  Sorry buddy but I will always favor the eye test over box scores. 

They're not my terms, pal. Calling the guy who just broke the receptions in a season record and posted 1700+ yards in that season a #1 WR is basically anybody who watches football's terms. I don't care if you favor the eye test. But there comes a point where you can't ignore the box score. Tripling down on bad takes only shoots holes into your credibility.

4 hours ago, Chwf3rd25 said:

I don't see any of the top 5 RBs busing (Swift, Taylor, CEH, Dobbins, Akers) so had to pick another RB.  If Moss is a day 2 selection and asked to be a workhorse I think he has a decent probability of busting in that role due to his lack of explosion.

The only thing he lacks is breakaway speed. He'll be fine in whatever role. He's a three-down back.

[jrry32]

49 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Michael Thomas ran a 4.57, DeAndre Hopkins ran a 4.57, Cooper Kupp ran a 4.62, and Keenan Allen ran a 4.72. 

If you look at the top 20 WR's in the league last year in terms of receiving yards: 

• 4.3 guys (2): Jones and Brown

• 4.4 guys (7): Godwin, Parker, Cooper, Moore, Robinson, Diggs, and Lockett

• 4.5 guys (8): Thomas, Golladay, Hopkins, Evans, Woods, Edelman, Sutton, Gallup 

• 4.6 guys (2): Landry and Kupp

• 4.7 guys (1): Allen

With the average 40 time for those 20 players being 4.50. 

Great job. I'll note, though, that Jarvis did run a 4.7 40 at the Combine.

[VanS]

9 hours ago, Chwf3rd25 said:

Fun to look back in retrospect
RBs

Rashaad Penny with top 10 grade and Curtis Martin comp

Mark Walton - 1st round

John Kelly - 1st round

WRs

Callaway - top 5 grade

ESB - 1st round grade

Cedrick Wilson - 1st round grade

Sutton, Ridley, and Chark all the way down at WR13-WR15

OL

QNelson as 2nd ranked IOL

McGlinchey with a 3rd round grade

Edge

Arden Key - top 10 grade

DL

Tim Settle - top 10 grade

LB

Tremaine Edmunds - LB6 and 2nd round grade

CB

Brandon Facyson - top 10 grade

Denzel Ward - CB7 and 2nd round grade

SUMMARY - you just throw out a million hot takes and when 1 out of 100 inevitably hits you constantly bring it up and ignore the other 99 awful takes

You not gonna give me credit for pegging LB Fred Warner (49ers) as a top 10 grade?  He went in the 3rd round.

And I did rate Quenton Nelson as a top 10 grade with a comp to Zach Martin.  Knew he would be good.  Just liked Frank Ragnow a little more. 

Totally missed on Sutton and Chark.  Still not sold on Ridley.  Antonio Callaway proved he could develop into a star as a rookie but his demons got in the way ala Josh Gordon.

The RB ranking look ugly right now but I still like Penny and Kelly to break through.  Walton has been a disappointment.

Arden Key was another total whiff.  Probably the player whose fall has surprised me the most.  I do however like the flashes I've seen from Tim Settle.  That Washington d-line is deep but I like his chances to become a star.

Brandon Facyson made the Chargers roster as an undrafted free agent and started some games for them last year.  I might have oversold him with a high 1st round grade but he can develop into a solid starter worthy of having been at least a 2nd to 3rd round pick.

Also don't forget this class is just 2 years in.  At least wait until their rookie deals are up before acting like the book is written on them.

[VanS]

8 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said:

Who the actual is Tim Settle, John Kelly and Brandon Facyson?

 

John Kelly isn't a running back's name. It's an 1800's rancher's name.

John Kelly is the current #3 RB for the Rams.  We'll see if he gets a chance to play with them moving on from Todd Gurley.

Tim Settle is a pretty good second year rotational DT for the Redskins.  He's flashed in the games I've watched.  With the switch to the 4-3 I can see him and Daron Payne developing into one of the best DT duos in the league.

Brandon Facyson went undrafted.  Made the Chargers active roster as a free agent.  Started a number of games last year.  He's a pretty 6'2" press corner.  I look forward to his development.

[VanS]

7 hours ago, Counselor said:

What’s the excuse for Josh Dobbs again?

No excuse.  His time just hasn't come yet.  As a QB he still has time.  Remember he only just turned 25 years old.  

[jrry32]

24 minutes ago, VanS said:

Antonio Callaway proved he could develop into a star as a rookie but his demons got in the way ala Josh Gordon.

No, he didn't. Showing potential is not "proving" a player can develop into a star. Chris Givens had better production as a rookie as a similar type of player and never became anything approaching a star. (He never even became a consistent starter.)

[VanS]

21 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

No, he didn't. Showing potential is not "proving" a player can develop into a star. Chris Givens had better production as a rookie as a similar type of player and never became anything approaching a star. (He never even became a consistent starter.)

I don't care to debate hypotheticals.  I loved what I saw from Callaway as a rookie and thought stardom was right around the corner.  Unfortunately he had off the field issues that have derailed his potential. 

[jrry32]

3 minutes ago, VanS said:

I don't care to debate hypotheticals.  I loved what I saw from Callaway as a rookie and thought stardom was right around the corner.  Unfortunately he had off the field issues that have derailed his potential. 

Of course you did. He was your guy. He didn't "prove" anything. If the kid had, somebody would have picked him up. Look at how many chances Josh Gordon received. 

[Scoundrel]

5 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Of course you did. He was your guy. He didn't "prove" anything. If the kid had, somebody would have picked him up. Look at how many chances Josh Gordon received. 

/thread

[VanS]

9 hours ago, jrry32 said:

Of course you did. He was your guy. He didn't "prove" anything. If the kid had, somebody would have picked him up. Look at how many chances Josh Gordon received. 

Isn't he injured right now?  How many teams sign players who can't pass a physical?

[GSUeagles14]

22 hours ago, VanS said:

No.  I said he was a good kid and not some criminal or bad guy that some were making him out to be.  Maybe its just me but I don't think of addicts as "bad" people.  If the folks who were calling him a bad guy were simply referring to his dependancy on weed then they should have made that more clear.  But I do clearly remember the credit card incident and his alleged sexual assault case being used by some on here to make him into a bad person.

I will still defend Antonio Callaway as a good kid and elite talent.  But unfortunately he seems to be on the path to throwing it all away like Josh Gordon because of his addiction. 

well this is just a lie. as @Counselor already said, you said you looked into his eyes and could tell that he had changed. Why are you backing up from that now?