The QB Thread: Everything Carr, Stidham and beyond...

[BackinBlack]

Just now, dante9876 said:

You don't have to have Carr be here to let a young qb sit though. Any cheap qb can do that. Again here we go with the Carr is trash thing. Who is saying that? I don't think he trash. I'll call him trash when he plays like trash just like any other player on this team. Abram has caught it alot last year. But I never said he was an overall trash qb. We got to stop making stuff up. I never said trade him for 2 firsts either. I'll take a 2nd and 3rd. I'll take a 1st and 3rd. And they would trade for the loser qb cause they would think the same thing everybody around her does. He only a loser cause the franchise is a dump. 

I literally thought in your post i quoted you were calling him a loser? 

 

13 minutes ago, dante9876 said:

Your whole situation is based on assumptions that rarely happen. A qb taking a sweetheart deal on a bad team. If carr is top 10 like yall say, why would he or his agent take that deal. People are reading way to much into that I want to be a raider forever talk. I honestly wouldn't want a qb who is ok with being a loser and would take less money to continue to be a loser. 

We are clearly talking about Carr taking a lesser contract, then you throw out a hypothetical scenario where youre talking about a QB who is a loser?

Im sorry if I made a wrong assumption, but, I think it was implied at least somewhat from your post. 

[dante9876]

2 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

Also to add, which i am surprised I have too point out;
The taking less money wouldnt be to continue to be a loser . . 

The idea of taking less money, is that you can then put that money towards the team and make it better, increasing your chances to win.
Someone who takes less money typically cares more about winning then money.
That is far from a loser in my opinion, but again, we can agree to disagree

Why he didn't do that when we had to sign mack.  He hasn't won a thing here though. So if he cares about winning he would like for an opportunity to win. Not start all over again with a whole new rebuild under a whole new system. Doesn't sound like he cares about winning that much if he willing to sit through another rebuild. 

[BackinBlack]

2 minutes ago, dante9876 said:

I'll take a 2nd and 3rd. 

15 minutes ago, dante9876 said:

A 3rd round comp pick would be an awful get just to have carr around for a season. I agree with @big_palooka people just don't want to let him go.

 

So a 3rd round pick is awful, but a 2nd and 3rd is good in your mind?
I honestly think having Carr for year to help / start in place of a rookie is worth a 2nd round pick

[drfrey13]

There are a lot of directions we could go in but nobody knows what direction that is until we know who the GM and HC will be.  I think Carr would be willing to take less money but would still want $30-33 million.  I do not see him taking under $30 no matter what.  If you trade him you could get anywhere from a 1st and a 3rd to 2 firsts.  There are always coaches and GMs that think they can fix a QB or they would be great on their team.  Drafting a QB there better be someone the staff absolutely loves because he will have to start by year 2.  No matter what we do I just hope this team finally finds a direction and some value.

[dante9876]

1 minute ago, BackinBlack said:

I literally thought in your post i quoted you were calling him a loser? 

 

We are clearly talking about Carr taking a lesser contract, then you throw out a hypothetical scenario where youre talking about a QB who is a loser?

Im sorry if I made a wrong assumption, but, I think it was implied at least somewhat from your post. 

His record as a starter is a fact not an opinion. Why his record is that bad is opinion based. The fact is he is a loser. You can take it as me saying he sucks. But that's not what I said. 

[BackinBlack]

1 minute ago, dante9876 said:

Why he didn't do that when we had to sign mack.  He hasn't won a thing here though. So if he cares about winning he would like for an opportunity to win. Not start all over again with a whole new rebuild under a whole new system. Doesn't sound like he cares about winning that much if he willing to sit through another rebuild. 

There are a number of articles that show DC signed his contract to make sure there was enough money to sign Mack and Gabe. Also at the time, Carr was young and coming off a very good season. Very different situation now. 

Well if DC stays, then its not a rebuild IMO. If he goes, we will be in a rebuild. 

[dante9876]

1 minute ago, BackinBlack said:

So a 3rd round pick is awful, but a 2nd and 3rd is good in your mind?
I honestly think having Carr for year to help / start in place of a rookie is worth a 2nd round pick

Why. Carr going to teach him to be a good guy. Cause Carr is a good guy. What value do Carr have to a young qb that a cheap Tyrol Taylor or Gardner minshew doesn't have that's worth a 2nd. And yes that 2nd rd pick instead of the bottom of the 3rd rd compensatory pick is a huge difference for a team that has so many needs. 

[BackinBlack]

2 minutes ago, dante9876 said:

His record as a starter is a fact not an opinion. Why his record is that bad is opinion based. The fact is he is a loser. You can take it as me saying he sucks. But that's not what I said. 

Are you of the belief that Mac Jones won the game for NE last night because he was the starting QB?
 

[dante9876]

Just now, BackinBlack said:

There are a number of articles that show DC signed his contract to make sure there was enough money to sign Mack and Gabe. Also at the time, Carr was young and coming off a very good season. Very different situation now. 

Well if DC stays, then its not a rebuild IMO. If he goes, we will be in a rebuild. 

So the qb decides if it's a rebuild. So you don't think we need starters at each level of the defense, 2 wrs and 2 olineman. That's not including the guys that we actually like that we got to resign. And middle guys like Abram jacobs and mullens who you still got to decide if you want to resign. And doing all this under a new head coach and gm. Your fooling yourself if you think this ain't bout to be a rebuild. Gruden came in and keep carr and it was a rebuild. 

[BackinBlack]

1 minute ago, dante9876 said:

Why. Carr going to teach him to be a good guy. Cause Carr is a good guy. What value do Carr have to a young qb that a cheap Tyrol Taylor or Gardner minshew doesn't have that's worth a 2nd. And yes that 2nd rd pick instead of the bottom of the 3rd rd compensatory pick is a huge difference for a team that has so many needs. 

1. Carr typically starts the year off really well. So it gives us a chance to compete early in the season while giving our young QB time. 
2. If a starting QB gets injured on a playoff bound team, they may call us knowing we have a young guy in the helm and may be able to trade Carr to a desperate team, improving his value. 
3. If Carr regresses we put in the young player, maybe having a young player makes Carr actually throw the ball
4. It depends on the QB we draft, if we draft a mobile QB, then Id agree Carr wouldnt be ideal mentor. 
5. Id expect a young qb to beat out a taylor or minshew in camp. And then struggle early, which i want to avoid

[dante9876]

2 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

Are you of the belief that Mac Jones won the game for NE last night because he was the starting QB?
 

Facts are facts. Matt Jones is a winning qb so far.  Don't matter if he won it for them  or not. Nobody cares tom Brady was carried by his defense and a kicker to his first superbowl. They Don't discredit it. They just talk about how many super bowls he got and his winning record and he the goat. 

[dante9876]

1 minute ago, BackinBlack said:

1. Carr typically starts the year off really well. So it gives us a chance to compete early in the season while giving our young QB time. 
2. If a starting QB gets injured on a playoff bound team, they may call us knowing we have a young guy in the helm and may be able to trade Carr to a desperate team, improving his value. 
3. If Carr regresses we put in the young player, maybe having a young player makes Carr actually throw the ball
4. It depends on the QB we draft, if we draft a mobile QB, then Id agree Carr wouldnt be ideal mentor. 
5. Id expect a young qb to beat out a taylor or minshew in camp. And then struggle early, which i want to avoid

Once season starts carr trade value drops significantly. You have to know that for us to have a serious conversation about trading carr next year. 

[BackinBlack]

2 minutes ago, dante9876 said:

So the qb decides if it's a rebuild. So you don't think we need starters at each level of the defense, 2 wrs and 2 olineman. That's not including the guys that we actually like that we got to resign. And middle guys like Abram jacobs and mullens who you still got to decide if you want to resign. And doing all this under a new head coach and gm. Your fooling yourself if you think this ain't bout to be a rebuild. Gruden came in and keep carr and it was a rebuild. 

Im not going to say every time, but in our situation yes, the decision on QB shows what our plan is the next few years. 
If Carr is gone, we are looking to rebuild, it may be a quick rebuild but next season would be growing pain year. If we keep Carr its because the new coach thinks he can win with Carr. IMO.

I think on D, we need a DT, and LBers, I think our secondary is decent, but we cannot stop the run to save our lives. A guy live Jordan Davis in the first, could be massive for our Run problems. Plus we have a ton of Cap room. Cut littelton. I think our D is close too / already is middle of pack. 1 or 2 players oculd be a huge difference.

We need help on Oline for sure. I think 2nd 3rd round Oline can be found, and I also would prefer to pick some up in FA. Rookie oline struggle. Id rather pay in FA for proven above average players for next season then roll the dice on draft picks. Draft picks take too much time to develop. If we are in complete rebuild then draft them, but if Carr qb, he needs to be protected. 

I dont think we need 2 WRs. We need a speed reciever. Should be able to find one in the draft, doesnt need to be an allstar but just someone who can stretch the field, and stay on the field. 

Gruden came in and gutted like 80% of the roster, I dont expect that to happen that time. That is why I dont think you can say the QB decides if it is a rebuild. It changes depending on the circumstances

[dante9876]

12 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

There are a lot of directions we could go in but nobody knows what direction that is until we know who the GM and HC will be.  I think Carr would be willing to take less money but would still want $30-33 million.  I do not see him taking under $30 no matter what.  If you trade him you could get anywhere from a 1st and a 3rd to 2 firsts.  There are always coaches and GMs that think they can fix a QB or they would be great on their team.  Drafting a QB there better be someone the staff absolutely loves because he will have to start by year 2.  No matter what we do I just hope this team finally finds a direction and some value.

Resigning Carr means the new staff and coach feels different about how bad the roster is than everybody in here. If roster is as bad as people say it is. Resigning Carr to 30 mill isn't a move a smart gm would do. Unless Mark makes them do it. And that's what I'm afraid of. 

[BackinBlack]

3 minutes ago, dante9876 said:

Once season starts carr trade value drops significantly. You have to know that for us to have a serious conversation about trading carr next year. 

 

7 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

2. If a starting QB gets injured on a playoff bound team, they may call us knowing we have a young guy in the helm and may be able to trade Carr to a desperate team, improving his value. 
 

If you cannot read a full sentence, I cannot have a serious conversation. 😉
If a starting QB gets injured on a playoff bound team, say Carson Wentz on the Colts, 100% I believe they would phone and offer a first for Carr. I do not believe the colts would offer a first for Carr this offseason.