ronjon1990 Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 9 minutes ago, dante9876 said: Facts are facts. Matt Jones is a winning qb so far. Don't matter if he won it for them or not. Nobody cares tom Brady was carried by his defense and a kicker to his first superbowl. They Don't discredit it. They just talk about how many super bowls he got and his winning record and he the goat. Winning at cocaine and strippers in Fayetteville? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 (edited) 24 minutes ago, dante9876 said: Facts are facts. Matt Jones is a winning qb so far. Don't matter if he won it for them or not. Nobody cares tom Brady was carried by his defense and a kicker to his first superbowl. They Don't discredit it. They just talk about how many super bowls he got and his winning record and he the goat. Facts are facts I agree. Jacoby Brisette was a wining QB in NE, but struggled elsewhere. would you call him winning QB in your mind? Jimmy G was a winning QB in NE, but struggled elsewhere, would you call him a winning qb? Matt cassel was a winning qb in Ne, but struggled elsewhere would you call him a winning QB? Those 3 guys IMO, were clearly doing well because of the system, but the media talked them up as the next best thing and BB suckered teams into trading for them. You need to be able to anaylze players based off their film, not just look at W/L to decide if they are worth trading for. It sounds like you would have been on board for trading for all 3 of those guys, becuse facts are facts, they were winners at the time. Carr is better than all 3 of them even though he is a 'loser' in your opinion. Edited December 7, 2021 by BackinBlack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 Show me a qb who doesn't look good without weapons. The fact is, Carr was tearing it up with Ruggs/Waller/Renfrow. Wasn't as good without Ruggs. Then struggled without Ruggs and Waller. You think the next qb we bring in will be any different unless they're elite out of the box? Might as well load up. The 49ers did with with Garoppolo. Loaded up talent before drafting a rookie to groom. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 And no one give me this qb wins ****. Mac Jones would suck on this team let's be honest. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 I don't want to trade him just to trade him for minimal value, then be a dumpster fire in 2022. I'll hate watching the product on the field. We'll waste our young pieces and no one will want to resign. If we get a haul, then absolutely. But I'd rather have the rookie in place before moving on. A stopgap is just a waste. And I've thought this through. The key is to bring in a coach who has a plan. Either keep Carr and reload (which honestly may not be a good idea, he has opened himself up for criticism with his play down the stretch), or start looking for a young option with elite athleticism/playmaking ability. All these new young drafted qb's can run and improvise. We can find a good one eventually, I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich7sena Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 (edited) 46 minutes ago, dante9876 said: Resigning Carr means the new staff and coach feels different about how bad the roster is than everybody in here. If roster is as bad as people say it is. Resigning Carr to 30 mill isn't a move a smart gm would do. Unless Mark makes them do it. And that's what I'm afraid of. What's your logic here? The Raiders can extend Carr and sign other players too. You know that, right? Edited December 7, 2021 by Rich7sena Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante9876 Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 53 minutes ago, BackinBlack said: If you cannot read a full sentence, I cannot have a serious conversation. 😉 If a starting QB gets injured on a playoff bound team, say Carson Wentz on the Colts, 100% I believe they would phone and offer a first for Carr. I do not believe the colts would offer a first for Carr this offseason. How would a team know it's playoff bound before the trade deadline. Look at the standings this year. I don't believe colts would have gave up a first. The colts might not even make the playoffs with Carson this year. I think the NFL trade deadline is way to early for a team to give up significant value for a qb trying to learn a system in season to know for sure they going to be a playoff team. So back to my original statement his value is at its highest this offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante9876 Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 43 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said: And no one give me this qb wins ****. Mac Jones would suck on this team let's be honest. He absolutely would. So would a young Tom Brady. But again that don't take away from the facts. Carr record as a atarter is his record as a starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante9876 Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 44 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said: Show me a qb who doesn't look good without weapons. The fact is, Carr was tearing it up with Ruggs/Waller/Renfrow. Wasn't as good without Ruggs. Then struggled without Ruggs and Waller. You think the next qb we bring in will be any different unless they're elite out of the box? Might as well load up. The 49ers did with with Garoppolo. Loaded up talent before drafting a rookie to groom. The difference here is the length of the contracts. The sign jimmy g to win with him. Saw they couldn't then did what they had to do to draft a guy. They won't be resigning jimmy g and will trade him if they can get something for him. If carr had 3 years left on his contract I would see no issue with keeping him around to build up the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante9876 Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 20 minutes ago, Rich7sena said: What's your logic here? The Raiders can extend Carr and sign other players too. You know that, right? All that was said in here when kc signed mahommes is that you can't build good rosters with a qb making that much money. If we trying to rebuild a roster and you have one asset that can help you get pieces faster or help hinder you cause you have less money to get pieces and resign the pieces you like. It should be an easy decision. We have tried the rebuild a roster around carr cap number thing. It didn't work. So we going go around that same boat again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 8 minutes ago, dante9876 said: How would a team know it's playoff bound before the trade deadline. Look at the standings this year. I don't believe colts would have gave up a first. The colts might not even make the playoffs with Carson this year. I think the NFL trade deadline is way to early for a team to give up significant value for a qb trying to learn a system in season to know for sure they going to be a playoff team. So back to my original statement his value is at its highest this offseason. I dunno, we traded 2 firsts for Carson Palmer haha. Al was crazy, but there are always crazy owners in the NFL. When injuries happen teams do crazy things. I agree his value will be highest this offseason, but if I cant get a first for Carr Im not panicing and selling just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante9876 Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 53 minutes ago, BackinBlack said: Facts are facts I agree. Jacoby Brisette was a wining QB in NE, but struggled elsewhere. would you call him winning QB in your mind? Jimmy G was a winning QB in NE, but struggled elsewhere, would you call him a winning qb? Matt cassel was a winning qb in Ne, but struggled elsewhere would you call him a winning QB? Those 3 guys IMO, were clearly doing well because of the system, but the media talked them up as the next best thing and BB suckered teams into trading for them. You need to be able to anaylze players based off their film, not just look at W/L to decide if they are worth trading for. It sounds like you would have been on board for trading for all 3 of those guys, becuse facts are facts, they were winners at the time. Carr is better than all 3 of them even though he is a 'loser' in your opinion. Again you are assuming a winning qb or a loser qb means I'm calling them good or bad when I already stated that's not the case. Yall going to beat your heads through a wall trying to do the same thing that hasn't worked for the past 8 years. Trying to build around the same qb for the 3rd time. Ok. I don't think thats a solid plan at all point blank. This isn't about carr. If we got rid of carr and gave away assets for rodgers or Wilson. I wouldn't like that either. They not Winning anything with this roster either. It's about the best way to build this roster. People just don't want to go through that year or two of sucking. Rather keep trying to be a 10 win team while always falling short. That routine should be done with. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante9876 Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 1 hour ago, ronjon1990 said: Winning at cocaine and strippers in Fayetteville? Matt Jones will have more playoff wins than carr in one year Iin the league. Pats fans had to deal with one year of cam to make it happen. I'm willing to do two years of a garbage qb to make it happen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 6 minutes ago, dante9876 said: Again you are assuming a winning qb or a loser qb means I'm calling them good or bad when I already stated that's not the case. Yall going to beat your heads through a wall trying to do the same thing that hasn't worked for the past 8 years. Trying to build around the same qb for the 3rd time. Ok. I don't think thats a solid plan at all point blank. This isn't about carr. If we got rid of carr and gave away assets for rodgers or Wilson. I wouldn't like that either. They not Winning anything with this roster either. It's about the best way to build this roster. People just don't want to go through that year or two of sucking. Rather keep trying to be a 10 win team while always falling short. That routine should be done with. ok my bad. So when you call a qb a winner or loser QB all you literally are talking about is their Career win loss record? Good to know. It has no indication on their level of play or talent, it is literally just their record? to the second point, again I agree here. If new coach comes in and is ready to move on, I am ok with it. Id take a 1st and 3rd for Carr, but that offer may not come. a 2nd and 3rd rounder may make absolutely no impact on our team for 2 or 3 years possibly ever. Id rather hold onto Carr for that, but if the new coahc/gm does it, Im fine, just hope we hit on those picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyPhil1781 Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 As long as we don't draft a QB next year, just upgrade the position or keep it the same and get Carr more weapons. I'm not ready to take any flier on a QB in next year's absolutely terrible class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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