The QB Thread: Everything Carr, Stidham and beyond...

[Geezy]

6 minutes ago, Rich7sena said:

Well, I think it's open to debate whether Bryce Young is "slam dunk." And, if he is, why would a team drafting first not pick him? Unless the Raiders are drafting first overall next year (or maybe the Jaguars and Bears, too), there is no haul they could give a team picking first to convince them not to draft Young. 

What I'm saying is that it's not smart to build your team around a player who is not on your team yet, and probably won't be on your team.

Otherwise, the team is likely to have completely different leadership next year. I, personally, don't think think the Raiders are cursed with bad team building.

im trading Carr for assets and using said assets on a trade up to get a QB. All hypothetical and probably unlikely, but i just dont trust this organization to identify a project QB much less developing him. Maybe im in my feelings a bit and posting out of frustration but until Mark makes a smart hire i have little to no faith in us lucking into a legitimate QBOTF. Thats why im going with the safest bet and going all in on the top QB in the draft, which may or may not be Young, things change from year to year. 

[big_palooka]

37 minutes ago, Styrian Raider said:

How did KC get Mahomes, then?

They had their own average QB in Alex Smith. And rather than sit on the fact they can't win a Superbowl with him, traded into the top 10 to draft a QB with upside. Big risk.... HUGE reward.

[Rich7sena]

6 minutes ago, Geezy said:

Thats why im going with the safest bet and going all in on the top QB in the draft, which may or may not be Young, things change from year to year. 

This sentence contradicts itself.

[big_palooka]

40 minutes ago, Geezy said:

the thing for me is, are we gonna move on to move on or are we going to have actual options to improve? If we have a shot at Watson or Rodgers im all for it. But considering our recent past, do you think those guys would want to be here? We have proven we cant sustain a decent roster. Also, this is a down year for QBs in the draft, and we havent exactly lit the draft on fire either. So i guess ill be asking the same question ive asked the last few off-seasons, what are our options to improve the position? Im not moving on for the sake of moving on. Its easy to say Carr sucks trade him. 

Also, DC looked like a damn MVP candidate before the NFL put a hit out on his coach and his #1 WR killed a lady. 

If you can get 2 firsts for Carr, you take it and start building for the future. The Raiders are not winning in the AFC West for awhile anyway. Then use the picks to navigate to what your new coach wants at QB be it '22 or '23.

Also, no QB is winning an MVP averaging <2 TDs per game (even with Gruden/Ruggs). Stop looking at yardage and look at game winning situations.

Carr did not look like an MVP soon as the lights went on against the Chargers. They pressured him, he got predictable and skittish and they laughed in his face post game for being scared. See also the KC game and now the Washington game. Must win games, big spots he shrinks every time. 

[Styrian Raider]

4 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

They had their own average QB in Alex Smith. And rather than sit on the fact they can't win a Superbowl with him, traded into the top 10 to draft a QB with upside. Big risk.... HUGE reward.

See. 

It we have the opportunity to get a good qb even if we're stuck in the middle of the draft with Carr. 

First we need an overall identity with a new HC and GM. Then we should start fixing the roster and then we should find the qb of our future. 

Let's fix one problem after the other and not try to fix all at once. 

[big_palooka]

41 minutes ago, Geezy said:

were not going to be anything more than mediocre until we make significant changes from the top down. We cant keep bringing in chicken **** and expecting our QB to make chicken stew. We need to rebuild our entire front office. Tear the whole thing down and start from scratch. Cant believe im saying that after we go 3-0 and then 5-2, but hey were the Raiders. 

Exactly.... Like I said, some here are scared to move on from Carr. They are content being average to below average. 

The argument being.... if you can't upgrade, you need to keep Carr. You won't know if you can't upgrade until you're willing to risk trying to upgrade. 

This team is going no place in 2022 so why not rebuild it from the ground up with new leadership and a new voice under center.

[big_palooka]

4 minutes ago, Styrian Raider said:

See. 

It we have the opportunity to get a good qb even if we're stuck in the middle of the draft with Carr. 

First we need an overall identity with a new HC and GM. Then we should start fixing the roster and then we should find the qb of our future. 

Let's fix one problem after the other and not try to fix all at once. 

Sure... but do you want a new GM to start leveraging assets to do that?

I do agree however. This all starts at GM/HC and trickles down. No decision can or should be made on Carr until it comes from the new FO

[BackinBlack]

9 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

The argument being.... if you can't upgrade, you need to keep Carr. You won't know if you can't upgrade until you're willing to risk trying to upgrade. 

Or you go the KC route, GB route, Indy Route (to an extent). 
Keep your QB and draft his replacement, once you see the replacement is ready, you then move on. 

If Carr throws a hissy fit because we draft a QB in the first then yes agreed move on. But Carr is under a cheap contract next year, I believe Mariota will be gone. 
If there is a QB our new front office takes, 100% im on board in taking him, but that doesnt mean im giving Carr up for free either. 

Edited December 7, 2021 by BackinBlack

[dante9876]

1 hour ago, Geezy said:

were not going to be anything more than mediocre until we make significant changes from the top down. We cant keep bringing in chicken **** and expecting our QB to make chicken stew. We need to rebuild our entire front office. Tear the whole thing down and start from scratch. Cant believe im saying that after we go 3-0 and then 5-2, but hey were the Raiders. 

You gave me hell for saying this was the worst roster in the division at the beginning of the year. Now we are here. Lolol. 

[dante9876]

29 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

Or you go the KC route, GB route, Indy Route (to an extent). 
Keep your QB and draft his replacement, once you see the replacement is ready, you then move on. 

If Carr throws a hissy fit because we draft a QB in the first then yes agreed move on. But Carr is under a cheap contract next year, I believe Mariota will be gone. 
If there is a QB our new front office takes, 100% im on board in taking him, but that doesnt mean im giving Carr up for free either. 

You can't do that cause of carr contract. I'll be willing to do that if carr was on a 3 year deal still. We can't resign him. We will lose him for nothing if he isn't traded this offseason. Which for a team that everybody say is garbage would be extremely dumb to do. 

 

Honestly unless you think carr is a franchise qb and you think they can build a roster in less than 2 years good enough for him to win with, their is no logical reason to resign him and keep him. Your wasting cap and draft picks( the ones you would get for carr) just to say we got a top 15 qb while still sucking cause he don't got enough help. 

[dante9876]

41 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Exactly.... Like I said, some here are scared to move on from Carr. They are content being average to below average. 

The argument being.... if you can't upgrade, you need to keep Carr. You won't know if you can't upgrade until you're willing to risk trying to upgrade. 

This team is going no place in 2022 so why not rebuild it from the ground up with new leadership and a new voice under center.

To add to this, you don't have to immediately upgrade any way. There are plenty of average or bad qbs looking for jobs every season. Sign one to a one year deal. Build up roster in mean time. You don't have to reach for a qb. 

[Geezy]

57 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Exactly.... Like I said, some here are scared to move on from Carr. They are content being average to below average. 

The argument being.... if you can't upgrade, you need to keep Carr. You won't know if you can't upgrade until you're willing to risk trying to upgrade. 

This team is going no place in 2022 so why not rebuild it from the ground up with new leadership and a new voice under center.

How quick things change, we finally look like were headed in the right direction and we lose our HC and top WR. Now were in a completely different position looking for a new HC. I like Carr, i thought wed be able to do something with what we had week 1, and we did. Its hard for me to blame him, but as much as id like to stick with the guy, at this point its time for new blood. I just hope we can get it right for once and hire some real football guys. It dont matter who the QB is, if the GM and HC are a running joke. 

[Geezy]

21 minutes ago, dante9876 said:

To add to this, you don't have to immediately upgrade any way. There are plenty of average or bad qbs looking for jobs every season. Sign one to a one year deal. Build up roster in mean time. You don't have to reach for a qb. 

I just thought we were over the rebuilding thing, but here we are. 

[Geezy]

30 minutes ago, dante9876 said:

You gave me hell for saying this was the worst roster in the division at the beginning of the year. Now we are here. Lolol. 

So youre saying with Gruden and Ruggs wed be in this position? Did we not blow the doors off Denver, without a HC. 

[Geezy]

1 hour ago, Rich7sena said:

This sentence contradicts itself.

so youre saying youd rather sit tight and hope someone drops? And after that wed be able to develop him? Im saying go get your guy and pray he is who you think he is.