The QB Thread: Everything Carr, Stidham and beyond...

[Styrian Raider]

1 minute ago, big_palooka said:

You're correct. Which is why they need to rebuild entirely around a new QB. We've seen enough of Carr and it's for a change in voice and leadership. 

I guess there's 2 possible ways to handle that.
Either you build the roster and then you find your franchise QB or you build around the franchise QB.

Right now you can see how the latter works for CHI and JAX.
I'd rather go for the first option.

[BackinBlack]

6 minutes ago, Styrian Raider said:

I guess there's 2 possible ways to handle that.
Either you build the roster and then you find your franchise QB or you build around the franchise QB.

Right now you can see how the latter works for CHI and JAX.
I'd rather go for the first option.

Yea or you get lucky and find a Josh Allen type.
Ultimately, itll be up to our new coach / GM. I still think a lot of coaches would be happy to have Carr as their QB, so i think its still 50-50 if he stays or not. 

Hopefully he ends the year leading the league in passing, and gets over the 25 TD mark. That would really improve his trade worth too. (if we do decide to go that route)

[oakdb36]

43 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

I wish Carr all the best and still think he is top 10 talent QB in the league, but he just doesnt trust / use his arm. 

I don't remember the exact quote but Carr said Gruden told him to never take his arm talent out of the game. Unfortunately, he isn't doing it now.

What he did throughout the 1st half could have been done by any QB in the league.

[big_palooka]

1 minute ago, Styrian Raider said:

I guess there's 2 possible ways to handle that.
Either you build the roster and then you find your franchise QB or you build around the franchise QB.

Right now you can see how the latter works for CHI and JAX.
I'd rather go for the first option.

The Raiders do not have a franchise QB. They have a prime Andy Dalton caliber QB, which is actually the worst. It's the just good enough you keep wanting more QB who never actually gives you more. The kind of QB who is not consistent enough to win it all. But good enough you're picking middle of the pack in the draft. 

It's literal QB purgatory. You can't win anything meaningful, but you can't lose enough to get a higher draft pick. You're stuck in the middle and it's hell.

[Rich7sena]

3 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

Yea or you get lucky and find a Josh Allen type.
Ultimately, itll be up to our new coach / GM. I still think a lot of coaches would be happy to have Carr as their QB, so i think its still 50-50 if he stays or not. 

Hopefully he ends the year leading the league in passing, and gets over the 25 TD mark. That would really improve his trade worth too. (if we do decide to go that route)

I think Carr has solidified his worth to the rest of the league already. I.e., he's a known quantity who has put himself firmly in the top half of NFL QBs over the last three seasons. Plus, he comes price controlled for at least one season. I think the price to a team like Carolina, Pittsburg, or New Orleans is two firsts.

The biggest obstacle in moving Carr is whether he would even play for another team. He has said in the recent past that he would not. I think if he goes to a team like the Steelers or Saints, who are the picture of stability, he may move off his stance if they offer him a rock-solid extension. Carolina is less clear-cut.

[Styrian Raider]

5 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

The Raiders do not have a franchise QB. They have a prime Andy Dalton caliber QB, which is actually the worst. It's the just good enough you keep wanting more QB who never actually gives you more. The kind of QB who is not consistent enough to win it all. But good enough you're picking middle of the pack in the draft. 

It's literal QB purgatory. You can't win anything meaningful, but you can't lose enough to get a higher draft pick. You're stuck in the middle and it's hell.

How did KC get Mahomes, then?

[Geezy]

2 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Bottom line, some of you are just scared to move on from Carr. Content being in the middle and it's obvious.

the thing for me is, are we gonna move on to move on or are we going to have actual options to improve? If we have a shot at Watson or Rodgers im all for it. But considering our recent past, do you think those guys would want to be here? We have proven we cant sustain a decent roster. Also, this is a down year for QBs in the draft, and we havent exactly lit the draft on fire either. So i guess ill be asking the same question ive asked the last few off-seasons, what are our options to improve the position? Im not moving on for the sake of moving on. Its easy to say Carr sucks trade him. 

Also, DC looked like a damn MVP candidate before the NFL put a hit out on his coach and his #1 WR killed a lady. 

[Geezy]

if were gonna go full rebuild, trade Carr get 2 1sts or a 1st and a 2nd, roll with Mariota next season, win 2 games and pray for Bryce Young. 

[Geezy]

were not going to be anything more than mediocre until we make significant changes from the top down. We cant keep bringing in chicken **** and expecting our QB to make chicken stew. We need to rebuild our entire front office. Tear the whole thing down and start from scratch. Cant believe im saying that after we go 3-0 and then 5-2, but hey were the Raiders. 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Geezy

[Rich7sena]

2 minutes ago, Geezy said:

if were gonna go full rebuild, trade Carr get 2 1sts or a 1st and a 2nd, roll with Mariota next season, win 2 games and pray for Bryce Young. 

I think they should look at a guy this year, too. There are too many variables in one guy, who is not a slam dunk, himself.

I haven't done a deep dive, but I would be happy with Malik Willis in the second. I might even convince myself he's worth a mid to late first--especially if the Raiders end up with two firsts.

Before his statistical drop off after the Ole Miss game, I thought he looked like a top 15 player.

[jpaulthe1st]

2 minutes ago, Geezy said:

if were gonna go full rebuild, trade Carr get 2 1sts or a 1st and a 2nd, roll with Mariota next season, win 2 games and pray for Bryce Young. 

I posed this a few days ago and got crucified. But it’s a smart plan. First you clean out the front office and bring in bright football minds. Then you do the following: 

1. Sell high on Carr and get at least  2 1sts

2. Sign a bridge starter for 10-15 million less than Carr (Goff, Newton, Taylor, etc.) 

3. Build up the talent level of the OL, LB, and WR group with the additional cap space 

4. Package the 1sts to move into the top 2-3 to get Bryce Young 

[NCOUGHMAN]

16 minutes ago, Rich7sena said:

I think Carr has solidified his worth to the rest of the league already. I.e., he's a known quantity who has put himself firmly in the top half of NFL QBs over the last three seasons. Plus, he comes price controlled for at least one season. I think the price to a team like Carolina, Pittsburg, or New Orleans is two firsts.

The biggest obstacle in moving Carr is whether he would even play for another team. He has said in the recent past that he would not. I think if he goes to a team like the Steelers or Saints, who are the picture of stability, he may move off his stance if they offer him a rock-solid extension. Carolina is less clear-cut.

Meh the way he played on Sunday you can cross wash off the list. His play imo is hurting his trade value. Sit him charge it to a tragic year then trade him.

[Geezy]

10 minutes ago, Rich7sena said:

I think they should look at a guy this year, too. There are too many variables in one guy, who is not a slam dunk, himself.

I haven't done a deep dive, but I would be happy with Malik Willis in the second. I might even convince myself he's worth a mid to late first--especially if the Raiders end up with two firsts.

Before his statistical drop off after the Ole Miss game, I thought he looked like a top 15 player.

i get you, but do you really have faith in this organization taking a project type QB and developing him? I think the safest bet in our case is going all in on a slam dunk QB and praying hes good enough to elevate those around him. Because if history is any kind of indicator thats what were going to need out of him. 

[jpaulthe1st]

8 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Meh the way he played on Sunday you can cross wash off the list. His play imo is hurting his trade value. Sit him charge it to a tragic year then trade him.

The worst possible strategic move is to sit Carr at this point. If I’m Mark Davis I’m making the call from the ivory tower that I want more shots called down the field and more offensive aggression with the intention of showcasing Carr and maximizing his trade value. 

[Rich7sena]

1 minute ago, Geezy said:

i get you, but do you really have faith in this organization taking a project type QB and developing him? I think the safest bet in our case is going all in on a slam dunk QB and praying hes good enough to elevate those around him. Because if history is any kind of indicator thats what were going to need out of him. 

Well, I think it's open to debate whether Bryce Young is "slam dunk." And, if he is, why would a team drafting first not pick him? Unless the Raiders are drafting first overall next year (or maybe the Jaguars and Bears, too), there is no haul they could give a team picking first to convince them not to draft Young. 

What I'm saying is that it's not smart to build your team around a player who is not on your team yet, and probably won't be on your team.

Otherwise, the team is likely to have completely different leadership next year. I, personally, don't think think the Raiders are cursed with bad team building.