The QB Thread: Everything Carr, Stidham and beyond...

[bucksavage1]

47 minutes ago, true2form said:

Earlier in the game, sure I'd agree with his take 100%.  However, down 24-0 I'm really not concerned with "not taking the check down".  Everything is out the window at that point and you're trying to make something happen.  

I can see your argument but he takes unnecessary punishment by not passing to the open Targets 

[RaiderX]

If Carr really is struggling with back issues would it be crazy to give Stidham a go this week? Knows the offense and while he doesn't have Carr's arm (not like he throws deep much anyway) maybe JJ and Zeus more involved in the pass game too.

[NYRaider]

39 minutes ago, RaiderX said:

If Carr really is struggling with back issues would it be crazy to give Stidham a go this week? Knows the offense and while he doesn't have Carr's arm (not like he throws deep much anyway) maybe JJ and Zeus more involved in the pass game too.

Where did you see that Carr is dealing with back issues? I wish we would've signed a competent backup like Nick Foles. 

[true2form]

3 hours ago, bucksavage1 said:

I can see your argument but he takes unnecessary punishment by not passing to the open Targets 

Yeah there's two sides to each play. 

He doesn't check down he's criticized, he does check down he's criticized.  He curls up an embraces the hit he's giving up and soft.  He at least tries to extend the play he's taking unnecessary hits.

This will keep being the narrative if he's playing poorly and we are losing.  Unfortunately that is where we are.

[NYRaider]

Just now, true2form said:

Yeah there's two sides to each play. 

He doesn't check down he's criticized, he does check down he's criticized.  He curls up an embraces the hit he's giving up and soft.  He at least tries to extend the play he's taking unnecessary hits.

This will keep being the narrative if he's playing poorly and we are losing.  Unfortunately that is where we are.

And it is where we have been in 7/9 seasons with Carr despite different coaches, schemes, personnel, I think I'm sensing a theme with only one common denominator. 

[true2form]

1 minute ago, NYRaider said:

And it is where we have been in 7/9 seasons with Carr despite different coaches, schemes, personnel, I think I'm sensing a theme with only one common denominator. 

And that's fine to feel that way. 

I've never felt it was that simple though.  If you keep changing coaches, schemes, and personnel how is anyone supposed to improve?  Constantly starting over.

The offense has it's up and downs, but has been a top 10-15 unit the last 3 years.  I've been waiting longer than 3 years to see a full season of having everyone healthy and available all season.  I'm not holding my breath, but if it ever happened these guys could easily be top 10. 

The defense on the other hand hasn't improved much, if at all over those 9 seasons.  Bottom 3rd of the league in most if not all categories. I don't know how they fix it, but none of those coaches, schemes, or players have made any significant improvement.

 I want this team to win, no matter the way they do it.  If we go away from Carr in the offseason that's fine with me.  However, I'll be prepared for a 3-13 kind of season next year.  We would probably be like the Jags, with a worse defense.

[bucksavage1]

4 hours ago, NYRaider said:

And it is where we have been in 7/9 seasons with Carr despite different coaches, schemes, personnel, I think I'm sensing a theme with only one common denominator. 

While we have been kicking the tires on Carr…

 

The Eagles have won a super bowl, saw their QBs weren’t long term options after average seasons. Got aggressive Traded both

Drafted Hurts and now have the best record in the NFL.

Keep in mind Drafting and starting Hurts allowed the Eagles to take on AJ Brown,, CJ Gardner Johnson, Darius Slay and Robert Quinn by trade. While also resigning key FAs like Fletcher Cox, Lane Johnson, Josh Sweat etc 

We passed on Hurts twice in 2020

Edited November 4, 2022 by bucksavage1

[RaidersAreOne]

I've never been one to get into the QB debate like many around here. I have been pretty Switzerland regarding keeping/replacing DC, but man I think I am ready to make the plunge to anti-Carr on this team next year.

[big_palooka]

42 minutes ago, RaidersAreOne said:

I've never been one to get into the QB debate like many around here. I have been pretty Switzerland regarding keeping/replacing DC, but man I think I am ready to make the plunge to anti-Carr on this team next year.

I've always liked Carr and rooted for him. But I agree. It's time for new leadership at the QB position. Carr is a good guy, says all the right things and has put up with more BS with this organization than any athlete should have to. 

Bottom line, the team has not won under him. That's not his fault entirely. Coaching changes, poor talent and roster construction for years. He's been a team guy and I'll always have that respect for him. 

It feels like the team needs a reset and fresh start at the QB spot. 

[SilverNBlackFan]

On 11/4/2022 at 4:15 PM, bucksavage1 said:

While we have been kicking the tires on Carr…

 

The Eagles have won a super bowl, saw their QBs weren’t long term options after average seasons. Got aggressive Traded both

Drafted Hurts and now have the best record in the NFL.

Keep in mind Drafting and starting Hurts allowed the Eagles to take on AJ Brown,, CJ Gardner Johnson, Darius Slay and Robert Quinn by trade. While also resigning key FAs like Fletcher Cox, Lane Johnson, Josh Sweat etc 

We passed on Hurts twice in 2020

The whole timeline for the Eagles you layed out just puts in perspective how long we have been at it with Carr, wasting season after season trying to find the right formula for him to succeed.

The excuses for Carr throughout the years all get recycled. Now this year the narrative is that our offensive line sucks, oh wait its because he's learning a new offense. Well what was the excuse when we had the highest paid offensive line in football for a few years? What was the excuse when he was in Grudens offense for four years? The mediocre results were still the same. A few years ago it was Amari Coopers fault despite the fact Amari has been a top ten WR production wise since entering the league. 

You see young QBs around the league turn their careers around and excell once they get bonafide #1 receivers to play with. Look at Josh Allen before and after they got Stefon Diggs. Look at Jalen Hurts before and after AJ Brown. Look at Tua this year with Tyreke. Carr gets Adams and looks worse.

The only thing we haven't given Carr during his tenure here is a good defense.  And thats true, our defenses have been atrocious over the years. But if we are paying our QB top dollar I'm sorry you should be able to overcome some deficiencies. Carr ain't that. Hes a middling talent, who's style of play is becoming outdated and is being paid too much because he needs too much around him to be successful. There are no more excuses after this year.

Edited November 7, 2022 by SilverNBlackFan

[BackinBlack]

1 hour ago, RaidersAreOne said:

I've never been one to get into the QB debate like many around here. I have been pretty Switzerland regarding keeping/replacing DC, but man I think I am ready to make the plunge to anti-Carr on this team next year.

 

55 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

I've always liked Carr and rooted for him. But I agree. It's time for new leadership at the QB position. Carr is a good guy, says all the right things and has put up with more BS with this organization than any athlete should have to. 

Bottom line, the team has not won under him. That's not his fault entirely. Coaching changes, poor talent and roster construction for years. He's been a team guy and I'll always have that respect for him. 

It feels like the team needs a reset and fresh start at the QB spot. 

Ive definitely been more vocal in my support for Carr, and have always thought of him as a fringe top 10 qb. 
Outside of the eltie qbs, game to game consistency is very tough to find in qbs, which is Carrs biggest fault too. 

even though the roster is far from perfect, I agree, I think we move on. 
We cannot put in another new HC and system for Carr to learn in year 10. 

Ill respect Carr and wish him well (esp if he goes to NFC team and can get us something in return), We did him 0 favors in terms of building a team / coaching staff / etc. 

Even without Waller this year, Adams and Renfrow with Mack and Moreau should be enough. 
He moves around the pocket well one play, only to forget how to move the next. 

I just cant see JMD keeping him for another year with how his contract is, and even though JMD isnt giving me to much to cheer for, we need to give coaches more time then 1 year. 

[SimonGruber]

58 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

I've always liked Carr and rooted for him. But I agree. It's time for new leadership at the QB position. Carr is a good guy, says all the right things and has put up with more BS with this organization than any athlete should have to. 

Bottom line, the team has not won under him. That's not his fault entirely. Coaching changes, poor talent and roster construction for years. He's been a team guy and I'll always have that respect for him. 

It feels like the team needs a reset and fresh start at the QB spot. 

I’ve tried to be neutral with Carr but I sick of the the cycle he looks awful then he will peel off a string of stud performances. I bought in this year I have tickets for his over tds passing yards and Raider wins. I’m ready for a change. 

[big_palooka]

1 hour ago, SimonGruber said:

I’ve tried to be neutral with Carr but I sick of the the cycle he looks awful then he will peel off a string of stud performances. I bought in this year I have tickets for his over tds passing yards and Raider wins. I’m ready for a change. 

Currently, he can't string together 60 minutes of football. 

[bucksavage1]

On 11/7/2022 at 7:48 AM, SilverNBlackFan said:

The whole timeline for the Eagles you layed out just puts in perspective how long we have been at it with Carr, wasting season after season trying to find the right formula for him to succeed.

The excuses for Carr throughout the years all get recycled. Now this year the narrative is that our offensive line sucks, oh wait its because he's learning a new offense. Well what was the excuse when we had the highest paid offensive line in football for a few years? What was the excuse when he was in Grudens offense for four years? The mediocre results were still the same. A few years ago it was Amari Coopers fault despite the fact Amari has been a top ten WR production wise since entering the league. 

You see young QBs around the league turn their careers around and excell once they get bonafide #1 receivers to play with. Look at Josh Allen before and after they got Stefon Diggs. Look at Jalen Hurts before and after AJ Brown. Look at Tua this year with Tyreke. Carr gets Adams and looks worse.

The only thing we haven't given Carr during his tenure here is a good defense.  And thats true, our defenses have been atrocious over the years. But if we are paying our QB top dollar I'm sorry you should be able to overcome some deficiencies. Carr ain't that. Hes a middling talent, who's style of play is becoming outdated and is being paid too much because he needs too much around him to be successful. There are no more excuses after this year.

Direct correlation of why the Raiders the last 20 years have been one of the worst franchises in the NFL.

Not making the right moves where other teams are like the Eagles and Chiefs  

We should of traded Carr 2-3 seasons ago and stop trying to surround this guy.

 

[Darbsk]

On 11/4/2022 at 11:15 PM, bucksavage1 said:

While we have been kicking the tires on Carr…

 

The Eagles have won a super bowl, saw their QBs weren’t long term options after average seasons. Got aggressive Traded both

Drafted Hurts and now have the best record in the NFL.

Keep in mind Drafting and starting Hurts allowed the Eagles to take on AJ Brown,, CJ Gardner Johnson, Darius Slay and Robert Quinn by trade. While also resigning key FAs like Fletcher Cox, Lane Johnson, Josh Sweat etc 

We passed on Hurts twice in 2020

This is a good point and undeniable, there is a lot of merit to it, but, and this is important, this is one success story and for every one there are lots of similar strategies that have failed. Notably the Bears have twice gone after high pick QBs very recently, the Jets multiple times, the Giants, the Browns for years and years, the Jags, the Redskins, Broncos recently, and a few more have all tried and failed miserably.

Now, that’s not to say you shouldn't gamble and go for it, just that it certainly isn’t a high probability of success. I suppose given our sustained lack of success there isn’t that much downside. Most guys here I would think would support a move if we go all in to try and get a young, elite signal caller but I’d think most would be realistic to the chances of success too.