Home vs Road splits for Big Ben

[tonyto36]

40 minutes ago, skywlker32 said:

I posted facts and you come back with this? Go troll elsewhere.

What exactly has Tomlin done?  He inherited a SB calibre team with a good coaching staff.  As soon as inherited talent started evaporating, and he dumped Arians and Lebeau, the team declined a ton.  They've been middle of the pack on defense and offense for the most part, constantly underperformed against inferior competition, and done nothing to adjust or help his team through coaching.  He's left his defense out to dry with the same old soft zone, especially noted in the matchups against the Patriots where it was obvious to even the most casual fan that it wasn't working, and done nothing but lean on the super star talents of Bell and Brown.  

Tomlin is good enough to get by with a loaded team, but he's never gotten his team to overachieve.  It's always been the opposite.   He offers nothing as either an offensive or defensive coach and his leadership skills are questionable.  

I can't remember ever watching the Steelers under Tomlin and be impressed with a coaching or schematic thing they did.  It's been the same straightforward, easy to counter [with an elite QB/coach] vanilla garbage for 10 or whatever years.   And when Arians tried to bring the Steelers into the modern era?  Tomlin booted him away and insisted on the ground and pound nonsense.  It took way too long for the Steelers to adjust to too many things, largely because of Tomlin.

[childofpudding]

6 minutes ago, tonyto36 said:

What exactly has Tomlin done? 

- Better win% as a coach than Cowher or Noll

- Third best win% of any team since 2007 behind NE and GB

- Two SB appearances and one SB victory in 10 years

[tonyto36]

3 minutes ago, childofpudding said:

- Better win% as a coach than Cowher or Noll

- Third best win% of any team since 2007 behind NE and GB

- Two SB appearances and one SB victory in 10 years

10 minutes ago, tonyto36 said:

He inherited a SB calibre team with a good coaching staff.  As soon as inherited talent started evaporating, and he dumped Arians and Lebeau, the team declined a ton.

 

[childofpudding]

28 minutes ago, tonyto36 said:

 

Multiple winning seasons, won the tough AFC North more often than not since Arians left. Never had a losing record, Arians has.

LeBeau just left a couple years ago, so it doesn't make sense to only judge Tomlin from 2015 to now. But in any event, in the last two years they won the division once, made the playoffs both years, and made it to the conference championship one season.

Under Tomlin they've drafted Brown, Bell, Pouncey, Shazier, DeCastro.

They've been one of the better teams in the league under Tomlin. Can't believe you're making me defend Trip, I really don't like him.

[TheOnlyThing]

28 minutes ago, childofpudding said:

- Better win% as a coach than Cowher or Noll

- Third best win% of any team since 2007 behind NE and GB

- Two SB appearances and one SB victory in 10 years

You're forgetting Tomlin's awesome glare.

I don't mean the one he gets when the opposition beats down on his defense after another terrible performance in the playoffs, but the one he manufactures when the cameras are on so everyone will think he is a real hard ***. Biggest phony in the coaching ranks.

Tomlin is a 4-3 defensive "guru" who inherited a Hall of Fame QB and Super Bowl winning squad and coaching staff and won a Super Bowl, 9 years ago, on the backs of his 3-4 D Coordinator. The talking heads keep telling us he is a great, great coach though.

The Steelers will make the playoffs again this year, lose before the Super Bowl and Big Ben will wise up and realize it ain't ever gonna happen again for him with phony-tuff as his coach.

Tomlin's true coaching abilities will be revealed once Ben is gone. 

[childofpudding]

1 minute ago, TheOnlyThing said:

You're forgetting Tomlin's awesome glare.

I don't mean the one he gets when the opposition beats down on his defense after another terrible performance in the playoffs, but the one he manufactures when the cameras are on so everyone will think he is a real hard ***. Biggest phony in the coaching ranks.

Tomlin is a 4-3 defensive "guru" who inherited a Hall of Fame QB and Super Bowl winning squad and coaching staff and won a Super Bowl, 9 years ago, on the backs of his 3-4 D Coordinator. The talking heads keep telling us he is a great, great coach though.

The Steelers will make the playoffs again this year, lose before the Super Bowl and Big Ben will wise up and realize it ain't ever gonna happen again for him with phony-tuff as his coach.

Tomlin's true coaching abilities will be revealed once Ben is gone. 

Someone already mentioned the Steelers' record under Tomlin without Ben. To recap, it's above .500. There's a decent-enough sample size because Ben getting taken off on a cart is practically a meme.

Don't fall victim to comparing Tomlin to arguably the GOAT coach who, you know, is in the same conference and has arguably the GOAT QB playing for him. Despite all that, the Steelers have made it to the SB twice under Tomlin and won it once. Yeah, it must be all the holdovers. Must be LeBeau and Arians. Tomlin is awful. Please.

[LaserFocus]

5 hours ago, tonyto36 said:

Ben, past 3 years, home and away splits, with difference in efficiency stats

2017:
H:  23/35, 65.7%.  243 yards. 6.94 AVG.  2 TD 0 INT, 2 sacks.  104.8 rating
A: 46/75, 61.3%.  498 yards.  6.64 AVG.  3 TD 1 INT, 4 sacks.  88.6 rating

2016:
H: 160/226, 70.8%.  1915 yards.  8.47 AVG.  20 TD 5 INT, 7 sacks.  116.7 rating
A:  168/283, 59.4%.  1904 yards.  6.73 AVG.  9 TD, 8 INT, 10 sacks.  78.4 rating
D:  -11.4%.  -1.74 AVG.  -11 TD.  +3 INT.  +3 sacks.  -38.3 rating

2015:
H:  159/243, 65.4%, 2088 yards.  8.59 AVG.  16 TD, 7 INT, 8 sacks.  102.4 rating
A:  160/226, 70.8%, 1850 yards.  8.19 AVG.  5 TD, 9 INT, 12 sacks.  86.0 rating
D:  +5.4%.   -0.4 AVG.  -11 TD.  +2 INT.  +4 sacks.  -16.4 rating

2014:
H: 214/314, 68.2%.  2778 yards. 8.80 AVG.  25 TD, 3 INT.  21 sacks.  115.9 rating
A:  194/294, 66.0%, 2174 yards.  6.69 AVG.  9 TD, 5 INT.  17 sacks.  91.0 rating
D:  -2.2%.  -1.11 AVG.  -16 TD.  +2 INT.  -4 sacks.  -24.9 rating

Some decline in stats should be expected, but the splits have been humongous for Ben at home vs away.

Comparatively:

Tom Brady:
2016:
H:  112.6 rating
A:  111.9 rating
-0.7

2015:  
H:  102.0 rating
A:  102.4 rating
+0.4

2014:
H:  103.8 rating
A:  90.4 rating
-13.4

Aaron Rodgers:
2016:
H:  106.5 rating
A:  101.9 rating
-4.6

2015:
H:  94.9 rating
A:  90.2 rating
-4.7

2014:
H:  133.2 rating
A:  94.2 rating
-36.0

Matt Ryan:
2016:
H:  119.1 rating
A:  115.0 rating
-4.1

2015:
H:  90.2 rating
A:  87.9 rating
-2.3

2014:
H:  99.6 rating
A:  88.7 rating
-10.9

Russell Wilson:
2016:
H:  103.5 rating
A:  82.1rating
-21.4

2015: 
H:  112.4 rating
A:  107.7 rating
-4.7

2014:
H:  80.8 rating
A:  107.6 rating
+26.8

Ryan Tannehill:
2016: 
H:  100.5 rating
A:  86.7 rating
-13.8

2015:
H:  88.0 rating
A:  89.4 rating
+1.4

2014:
H:  97.6 rating
A:  88.1 rating
-9.5

Drew Brees:
2016:
H:  108.2 rating
A:  95.7 rating
-12.5

2015:
H:  112.5 rating
A:  87.7 rating
-24.8

2014:  
H:  93.6 rating
A:  101.0 rating
+7.4

*I didn't do full stat break downs of all players to save time
----

I made sure to include some notable QBs that might have a distinguishable home field advantage (ie. weather/dome/fans).  While there is going to be some variance to it, injuries, opponent, randomly bad/good games, there has been a pretty huge gap. Ben's splits are noticeably worse than everyone elses.  He goes from being one of, if not the best QB at home in the league to worse than Tannehill away from home.   Even Brees who is known for being a dome QB and has a history of terrible indoor/outdoor splits doesn't suffer as poorly as Ben does away from home.  

So what's the explanation?  Could it be Tomlin is messing with the radio equipment at home?

Injuries have definitely been a factor, Ben has played when other QBs would have sat games out. The game at Baltimore last season is a good example. Another factor is the defensive turnover in personnel, the unit has been inconsistent in recent years, breaking in younger players. The Steelers have found themselves trailing in road games, sometimes against teams they should have beaten. Last season at Miami was a colossal defensive collapse. Then again, the Steelers did edge the Chiefs in KC in last season's playoffs.   

[Hunter2_1]

Would say this about Tomlin, after nearly 10 attempts, he still plays the same soft BS against us. Steelers have the talent to take us out, but they are let down by poor schemes.

[JAF-N72EX]

21 minutes ago, TheOnlyThing said:

Tomlin is a 4-3 defensive "guru" who inherited a Hall of Fame QB and Super Bowl winning squad and coaching staff and won a Super Bowl, 9 years ago, on the backs of his 3-4 D Coordinator. The talking heads keep telling us he is a great, great coach though.

This statement is grand coming from a Packer fan. You must think McCarthy is a garbage coach too. Because he also inherited a HoF QB, a winning squad, a coaching staff and it took him 6-7 years to win a SB, 6 years ago, that was on the backs of his 3-4 DC.

[tonyto36]

1 hour ago, LaserFocus said:

Injuries have definitely been a factor, Ben has played when other QBs would have sat games out. The game at Baltimore last season is a good example. Another factor is the defensive turnover in personnel, the unit has been inconsistent in recent years, breaking in younger players. The Steelers have found themselves trailing in road games, sometimes against teams they should have beaten. Last season at Miami was a colossal defensive collapse. Then again, the Steelers did edge the Chiefs in KC in last season's playoffs.   

Actually, Ben has typically sat out more often than most QBs IMO.   Brady among other QBs have played through a shoulder dislocation, broken hands, high ankle sprains, MCL sprains.  Regardless, all of that is accounted for in splits and that's why we have a three year sample size.  If you go back another 3 years the trend stays the same until mysteriously he tends to be better at away than home and it's almost like something significant changed to make him so much better at home.

If your argument is "well sometimes they lose on the road because Ben plays worse, and that explains why he would naturally have a worse stat line on the road", then I think you need to reevaluate.  

[TheOnlyThing]

1 hour ago, JustAnotherFan said:

This statement is grand coming from a Packer fan. You must think McCarthy is a garbage coach too. Because he also inherited a HoF QB, a winning squad, a coaching staff and it took him 6-7 years to win a SB, 6 years ago, that was on the backs of his 3-4 DC.

Your attempt to deflect from phony-tuff's years of flameouts by alluding to Packers' coach Mike McCarthy does not change the facts regarding Tomlin's record the past 6 seasons. He has done nothing with a whole lot of talent.

As for your assertion that Packers coach Mike McCarthy "inherited a winning squad" don't they teach phony-tuff fan club members how to use the internet? Because if they did, you would be able to look up the indisputable fact that McCarthy took over a 4-12 Packers team. Or would that be a winning squad in phony-tuff's world?

And while McCarthy did inherit a HOF QB, that was just for 2 years before Favre departed. Then, McCarthy was instrumental in developing a second HOF QB in Rodgers.

As for the Super Bowl in which McCarthy's Packers defeated phony-tuff's Steelers (in McCarthy's 5th season you can look it up on that internet thing), yes the Pack's D was pretty good that day. But so was the offense that McCarthy is principally responsible for.

You see, unlike phony-tuff who mostly glares for the cameras and spouts platitudes, McCarthy owns the Packers offense for the good and bad.

Tomlin's "genius" was supposedly as a Tampa-2 guy under Saint Dungy? Remember that relic of a D? Well, Pitt is a 3-4 D and Tomlin's biggest role in that D is to look tough while explaining the latest playoff collapse.

Finally, whatever McCarthy's faults as a head coach, and he has more than a few, he has never, ever displayed such utter contempt for the sport as old phony-tuff did with his character-revealing Thanksgiving Day trip of Jacoby Jones. 

Will be fun to watch how many years Tomlin can live off his gravy-trained SB win. 

[Jlowe22]

Most QBs are better at home, regardless of field type.  With a few exceptions, of course.  There are tons of variables as to why someone's discrepancy would be so large, but the first thing that comes to my mind, is that it is harder for an offense to communicate on the road.  This means a big disadvantage for a team that relies on offense.  I don't follow the Steelers ultra closely, but as far as I know, pre-2010, the Steelers were a more defensive team.  They have recently been more of an offensive team.  And Ben pre-2010, had a better road rating.  

[JAF-N72EX]

1 hour ago, TheOnlyThing said:

Your attempt to deflect from phony-tuff's years of flameouts by alluding to Packers' coach Mike McCarthy does not change the facts regarding Tomlin's record the past 6 seasons. He has done nothing with a whole lot of talent.

As for your assertion that Packers coach Mike McCarthy "inherited a winning squad" don't they teach phony-tuff fan club members how to use the internet? Because if they did, you would be able to look up the indisputable fact that McCarthy took over a 4-12 Packers team. Or would that be a winning squad in phony-tuff's world?

And while McCarthy did inherit a HOF QB, that was just for 2 years before Favre departed. Then, McCarthy was instrumental in developing a second HOF QB in Rodgers.

As for the Super Bowl in which McCarthy's Packers defeated phony-tuff's Steelers (in McCarthy's 5th season you can look it up on that internet thing), yes the Pack's D was pretty good that day. But so was the offense that McCarthy is principally responsible for.

You see, unlike phony-tuff who mostly glares for the cameras and spouts platitudes, McCarthy owns the Packers offense for the good and bad.

Tomlin's "genius" was supposedly as a Tampa-2 guy under Saint Dungy? Remember that relic of a D? Well, Pitt is a 3-4 D and Tomlin's biggest role in that D is to look tough while explaining the latest playoff collapse.

Finally, whatever McCarthy's faults as a head coach, and he has more than a few, he has never, ever displayed such utter contempt for the sport as old phony-tuff did with his character-revealing Thanksgiving Day trip of Jacoby Jones. 

Will be fun to watch how many years Tomlin can live off his gravy-trained SB win. 

Noone is attempting to deflect anything. Just showing how ignorant and hypocritical your comment is.

He took over a team 1 year removed from 4 consecutive division titles and playoff appearances that featured TWO of the best QB's in history surrounded by 3 others(Green, Driver, Franks) that had already had a combined 8 or 10 pro-bowls under their belts and plethora of others such as;  Nick Barnett, Chad Clifton, Mark Tausher, Nick Collins, Al Harris and Aaron Kampman. 

But yeah, poor McCarthy for taking over a team such devoid of talent. I guess that's why it took him 5 years to get his one and only Superbowl appearance in 11 years.

But hey, let's knock another coach that managed to only take 4 years to make two Superbowl appearances while playing in one of the best divisions and in the same conference as two HoF QB's in Manning and Brady. Because that makes sense....

[titans0021]

You know, this thread has potential to generate actual discussion. The subject itself is pretty interesting. Yet we've fallen into insults and completely away from talking about Ben in virtually any meaningful way.

Get on topic and be civil. We don't need garbage posts dragging this thread into a total mess.

@tonyto36 and @TheOnlyThing if all you're going to do is try to troll Steelers fans, I'm going to have no choice but to lock this up and hand out warnings.

[riceman80]

8 hours ago, TheOnlyThing said:

But Tomlin will no doubt go on to coach another team or get into broadcasting with all the other over-hyped 1 Super Bowl win coaches like Billick, Dungy, and Gruden.

Billick ill give you but Dungy and Gruden? no. Dungy went to the playoffs 10 straight years across 2 teams, won 1 Super Bowl, built the Tampa team that won the Super Bowl 1 year after his departure, and is in the HOF. He was an amazing coach. Teams would like up for his services if he said he wanted to coach again.

And Chucky has a great track record too and is an outstanding offensive coach and playcaller in particular. Again if he wanted to coach again, teams would like up for his services...