Pettine's Gone, but Outpost is Back

[AlexGreen#20]

2 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

I can tell you why. It's popping up because we just watched 2 ILBs completely wreck the game for Tampa. White and David single-handedly destroyed our run game (completely took away anything outside the tackle. This is a good lesson that there is a middle-ground to the whole "ILBs don't matter" argument. I agree that paying a guy like Blake Martinez $10m a year is one of the dumbest moves a team could make. The difference between Martinez and Krys Barnes is not wide enough to justify that type of investment in an ILB, who really won't make a difference. Yesterday, however, you saw two players who transcend that general rule. Those guys are difference-makers. 

White and David were running clean because we could not, to save our damn life, get off of our combo blocks against their DEs. It's not even like their ILBs were out running the blocks, we literally couldn't get Gholston or JPP pinned inside had we had an entire hour. 

We also decided to run into every stacked box we could think of. 

[MacReady]

16 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

I can tell you why. It's popping up because we just watched 2 ILBs completely wreck the game for Tampa. White and David single-handedly destroyed our run game (completely took away anything outside the tackle. This is a good lesson that there is a middle-ground to the whole "ILBs don't matter" argument. I agree that paying a guy like Blake Martinez $10m a year is one of the dumbest moves a team could make. The difference between Martinez and Krys Barnes is not wide enough to justify that type of investment in an ILB, who really won't make a difference. Yesterday, however, you saw two players who transcend that general rule. Those guys are difference-makers. 

Those two don’t effing matter if a team can get an OL on them and you know it.

The Rams and Seahawks are the perfect example.  Seahawks can’t keep Wagner clean, Seahawks defense sucks.  Donald keeps Rams no name ILBs clean and they look like Littleton looked last year.

You know this is true, so why keep trying to skate around it?

 

[vegas492]

Thinking the recent posts sums it all up.

Pettine was terrible in that game.  All around.  I don't mind seeing a DL drop into a zone.  I actually like it.

I hate it, though, when we drop MULTIPLE defensive lineman on a play and end up rushing 2.  It only gets worse when you see your DL dropping and basically setting a pick on a linebacker behind him.  It gets even worse when you are dropping Kenny Freakin' Clark into coverage on second down.

Add to it the worst soft zone I've ever seen and it was just a joke.  Third and 2.  They have a WR right next to a tight end.  We have one stand up cover guy near that group.  He's playing inside and already 5 yards off, while in a stance that says he is dropping on the snap.  Even an armchair idiot like me could see the flat was wide open.  High school kids could have made that throw.  They also would have known immediately where to go with the ball.

The scheme was bad.  The intensity was poor.  To me, it looked like only Barnes and Alexander were there to hit someone.

Telling yah, move on from Pettine now.  Unleash the defense.  Get aggressive and let them sink or swim.  Other teams do much better with much less talent.

[packfanfb]

3 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Those two don’t effing matter if a team can get an OL on them and you know it.

The Rams and Seahawks are the perfect example.  Seahawks can’t keep Wagner clean, Seahawks defense sucks.  Donald keeps Rams no name ILBs clean and they look like Littleton looked last year.

You know this is true, so why keep trying to skate around it?

 

Yea, but that's like saying Jordan doesn't score if we could just guard him. You can't get your OL on them because they are fast af and avoid the block. That's part of the point. 

[dwaye50327]

10 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

White and David were running clean because we could not, to save our damn life, get off of our combo blocks against their DEs. It's not even like their ILBs were out running the blocks, we literally couldn't get Gholston or JPP pinned inside had we had an entire hour. 

We also decided to run into every stacked box we could think of. 

The were running clean because White can run a 4.4 40 which is faster that a lot of RBs, and David can run a 4.5 40. They are the 2 of the fastest LBs in the league and yes their LBs were out running the blocks. Packers offense wasn't ready for that speed, Rodgers admitted that, LaFleur admitted that. Even during the week Aaron Jones noted that. The o-line wasn't quick enough to get to that second level to block them, by the time the o-line could get off the ball, both White and David were in their faces.

Edited October 19, 2020 by dwaye50327

[vegas492]

23 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

I can tell you why. It's popping up because we just watched 2 ILBs completely wreck the game for Tampa. White and David single-handedly destroyed our run game (completely took away anything outside the tackle. This is a good lesson that there is a middle-ground to the whole "ILBs don't matter" argument. I agree that paying a guy like Blake Martinez $10m a year is one of the dumbest moves a team could make. The difference between Martinez and Krys Barnes is not wide enough to justify that type of investment in an ILB, who really won't make a difference. Yesterday, however, you saw two players who transcend that general rule. Those guys are difference-makers. 

I'm big fans of both David and White.

Neither one of them would look very good with our DL and scheme in front of them.

Suh is not all world anymore.  But he's still very good.  Gholston, I feel, is very good and underrated.  JPP is still a mean edge.  Barrett is legit.

Bowles blitzes a lot, especially early.  They shoot in and take plays away from the offense.  Once they saw that we could block the blitz, or beat it quickly, the game was over.

To me, it isn't just David and White.  It's all about Bowles, his scheme and that strong DL.  Those ILB are so fast and instinctive that they "pop" on tape.  But the dirty work around them is letting it happen.

And that just ain't what we have going on in Green Bay.

[AlexGreen#20]

10 minutes ago, dwaye50327 said:

The were running clean because White can run a 4.4 40 which is faster that a lot of RBs, and David can run a 4.5 40. They are the 2 of the fastest LBs in the league and yes their LBs were out running the blocks. Packers offense wasn't ready for that speed, Rodgers admitted that, LaFleur admitted that. Even during the week Aaron Jones noted that. The o-line wasn't quick enough to get to that second level to block them, by the time the o-line could get off the ball, both White and David were in their faces.

Watch the play at 7:38 in the first quarter. 

Linsley beats David to the spot. He's faster to the point.

JPP squares up with Tonyan and that Tonyan/Bakhtiari combo literally does not move. JPP is the deepest man on that 3 man block at 1 yard past the line of scrimmage. It's not like Tonyan and Bakhtiari got him sealed, Tonyan came off and just couldn't get to White. Tonyan never even got off of JPP to try and move up to the second level. 

We also decided we were scared to attack vertically against 1 deep Safety. 

[dwaye50327]

1 minute ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Watch the play at 7:38 in the first quarter. 

Linsley beats David to the spot. He's faster to the point.

JPP squares up with Tonyan and that Tonyan/Bakhtiari combo literally does not move. JPP is the deepest man on that 3 man block at 1 yard past the line of scrimmage. It's not like Tonyan and Bakhtiari got him sealed, Tonyan came off and just couldn't get to White. Tonyan never even got off of JPP to try and move up to the second level. 

We also decided we were scared to attack vertically against 1 deep Safety. 

I think that was evident to an extent, they took that one shot to Mercedes which was over thrown and a couple shots to MVS. But for the most part, I don't think they could attack vertically with lack of time Rodgers was getting. I just wished there was more screens involved, RB screens, WR screens, real quick hitters, more counter action plays, use their speed against them, get them over pursing. The game plan was terrible, lets do some outside runs against LBs who can cover side line to line faster than our RBs and some of our WRs can run. I'm still behind the fire pettine train, but I don't think Tampa is 28 points better, hell i think GB could beat this team. GB just came with a bad game plan and a bunch of players whos head was a little too inflated from the success they were having. Sometimes you need to be punch in the mouth as a wake up call.

 

Personally I can't wait to hear Rodgers excuses on the Pat McAfee show Tuesday.

[vegas492]

10 minutes ago, dwaye50327 said:

I think that was evident to an extent, they took that one shot to Mercedes which was over thrown and a couple shots to MVS. But for the most part, I don't think they could attack vertically with lack of time Rodgers was getting. I just wished there was more screens involved, RB screens, WR screens, real quick hitters, more counter action plays, use their speed against them, get them over pursing. The game plan was terrible, lets do some outside runs against LBs who can cover side line to line faster than our RBs and some of our WRs can run. I'm still behind the fire pettine train, but I don't think Tampa is 28 points better, hell i think GB could beat this team. GB just came with a bad game plan and a bunch of players whos head was a little too inflated from the success they were having. Sometimes you need to be punch in the mouth as a wake up call.

 

Personally I can't wait to hear Rodgers excuses on the Pat McAfee show Tuesday.

My main take away was that Pettine could not beat that offense.

[dwaye50327]

Perfect example right here, regardless this was only like a 30 second clip, and JPP did take out 2 blockers on one play, but those LBs were just feasting. Repeatedly seeing o-lineman chasing the LBs trying to block them.

[AlexGreen#20]

21 minutes ago, dwaye50327 said:

Perfect example right here, regardless this was only like a 30 second clip, and JPP did take out 2 blockers on one play, but those LBs were just feasting. Repeatedly seeing o-lineman chasing the LBs trying to block them.

All really nice plays by ILBs, but again all come with problems by our blocking. 

The first one a nice backside fill, but Guards don't make that block all the time. This is exacerbated by the decision not to combo Patrick/Linsley. White's already a step and a half closer to this play than Patrick at the snap. Linsley is gonna get a nice seal here on a rep he's got the position on, but that seal is what's gonna open up this huge gap for White to shoot through. 

You've also got the issue that Jones isn't going anywhere in a hurry because his front side blocking is shot. Jenkins and Bakhtiari can't get off their combo to get out to White and Lewis can't get the edge on JPP. There's nowhere for him to go.

The second one is the one we talked about. Bakhtiari and Tonyan just get locked in there. Tonyan is never coming off that.

The third one gets messed up by the inside slants. The DT bumps Linsley off his line to the LB and Bakhtiari gets lazy and half assess up to the second level. 

The 4th one is Lewis just not trusting Sternberger and making a mental error. He's been in this league too damn long to be taking his eyes off a filling LB. 

 

[{Family Ghost}]

Any way you want to look at it we seems to be far inferior on defense compared to Tampa.  Some of it is coaching and some of it inferior talent.  Pettine isn't good enough, but at some point the finger needs to get pointed at Gute as well.  He did like nothing this off-season to improve the Dline.  We all saw that we were going to have issues there and he sat on his hands. 

[Packman04]

1 minute ago, {Family Ghost} said:

Any way you want to look at it we seems to be far inferior on defense compared to Tampa.  Some of it is coaching and some of it inferior talent.  Pettine isn't good enough, but at some point the finger needs to get pointed at Gute as well.  He did like nothing this off-season to improve the Dline.  We all saw that we were going to have issues there and he sat on his hands. 

Where was Gute going to get cap to improve the D-line other then signing some like Snacks Harrison? He was never going to go out a spend big money on a free agent this year.

[AlexGreen#20]

2 minutes ago, {Family Ghost} said:

Any way you want to look at it we seems to be far inferior on defense compared to Tampa.  Some of it is coaching and some of it inferior talent.  Pettine isn't good enough, but at some point the finger needs to get pointed at Gute as well.  He did like nothing this off-season to improve the Dline.  We all saw that we were going to have issues there and he sat on his hands. 

We didn't really hit them with anything. You can get their cornerbacks, but we didn't really try to. 

[{Family Ghost}]

1 minute ago, Packman04 said:

Where was Gute going to get cap to improve the D-line other then signing some like Snacks Harrison? He was never going to go out a spend big money on a free agent this year.

Could have spent money on DL instead of on Kirksey. We have undrafted free agents playing as well as he played in the first couple games.