College Football and Draft Discussion 2024

[BrownLeader]

On 3/3/2021 at 3:04 PM, LinebackerGod said:

Gladly.

1. Reading guards when playing inside the box. JOK is fantastic at feeling flow and scraping to the football. Simmons was often late on his reads when asked to play inside the box. It was mainly any time a guard pulled for Simmons. He could read runs straight at him (iso, zone), but he was terrible when it came to traps, counters, power concepts. JOK doesn't play inside the box that often, but when he was asked to do this, he didn't miss any pullers or flow motion. I wonder if Simmons was taught to read the runningback in that Clemson defense, because his eyes were all over the place.

2. Coverage, especially in zone. Simmons naturally gets "peeky" in his pass drops and as a result, lost WR's in coverage. Simmons has the ability to match up with just about everyone physically. Like...anyone. But his instincts in coverage were terrible coming out of Clemson and he'd routinely lose WR's while staring at the QB. He didn't do a good job of keeping his head on a swivel and looking for work. JOK is elite in this area.

3. Playing with pace. Not overrunning plays or sprinting into the "wash." JOK avoids blocks, but doesn't do it by sacrificing his gap or leverage on the ball carrier. Simmons was more of a berzerker and flew into the backfield when he should have slowed down. He didn't seem to understand when to trigger and when to slow play.

4. Blitz timing. JOK didn't blitz much, but when he did, it was always well-timed and disguised. Simmons ran himself into blocks quite a bit. His big frame and athletic traits made him somewhat successful regardless, but there was very little nuance to his game. JOK is just so savvy for the OLB position, a spot I have been coaching for 12 years now. It doesn't mean I'm the go-to expert on what will make a good pro, but it is something I religiously study.

 

 

I just think Simmons, while having an absurd upside, was not good at the little things that make linebackers elite. I think JOK does things with more control and consistency. He's also a technician that understands how to read and react to every situation. JOK plays the game like a savvy vet. Simmons was playing like a freak athlete in college.

 

 

I'm not sure who I would pick first if they were both in the draft. On one hand, I think JOK is better. On the other hand, the freak factor with Simmons is real. Simmons has a much higher ceiling physically, but JOK's ceiling is very good too. Simmons just has all-time traits physically, whereas JOK has very good traits. That's the only thing I think JOK loses out to Simmons in.

I disagree with a bunch of that. Here's a bit of a write up I'm doing on JOK..

"A whirlwind with poor instincts. JOK's athletic profile and aggression are Polamalu-esque but his lack of anticipation severely limits his overall impact. He relishes collisions but doesn't wrap up and lets elusive guys slip out. Bursts to confrontations but loses sight of the ball. If a coach and scheme can polish JOK's ability he'll be a defensive star."

and what I thought of Simmons...

"Simmons is really a 6'4 230 CB with the athleticism, size and awareness to play S and LB. He's a chase and drag down tackler that's best in pursuit and on the move. His length, anticipation and versatility make him a hunter seeker as a blitzer. But as a LB, especially up in the box, he plays it like a CB. He's easily pushed around gets lost in traffic. As he anticipates better with experience he ought to be a Malcolm Jenkins, Deion Jones, Derwin James calibre defender but he's unlikely to ever be a bully in the run game or a force in the box."

[LinebackerGod]

18 minutes ago, BrownLeader said:

He relishes collisions but doesn't wrap up and lets elusive guys slip out.

This is like the only thing I agree with you on in terms of assessment of JOK.

His instincts, in every film I've watched (3), have been pretty much impeccable.

[bruceb]

Leaning more and more toward a trade down from 26 if we can't get JOK or Moehrig.

Just think that the edges, CBs and other LBs are reaches, and that we can get DL and WR help later in the draft, which is deep at both positions.

[LinebackerGod]

21 hours ago, bruceb said:

Leaning more and more toward a trade down from 26 if we can't get JOK or Moehrig.

Just think that the edges, CBs and other LBs are reaches, and that we can get DL and WR help later in the draft, which is deep at both positions.

DL isn’t really deep tho. WR for sure is, but this is a horrible DT class and a slightly below average DE class. 

[bruceb]

8 minutes ago, LinebackerGod said:

DL isn’t really deep tho. WR for sure is, but this is a horrible DT class and a slightly below average DE class. 

DL has depth in the sense that so-called top guys aren't all that much better than guys with potential to be top guys who will be there in Rounds 3 & 4.

Overall, this draft sucks, which is why I would strongly consider using this year's picks in trades to get established players on D, a WR or two and future picks. 

[buno67]

23 hours ago, bruceb said:

Leaning more and more toward a trade down from 26 if we can't get JOK or Moehrig.

Just think that the edges, CBs and other LBs are reaches, and that we can get DL and WR help later in the draft, which is deep at both positions.

You either trade up and secure the top tier talent or trade down to get the guys you truly wantp

[bruceb]

Random thoughts:

1. Although we need DE and CB/S help, they are among the weaker groups in this draft.

2. WR and OL are two of the stronger groups in this draft, but most of what I read says that the sentiment is keep Landry and Beckham, don't worry about the OL and get draft help for the D.

3. Seems that many think we should play into the weakness of the draft and away from its strengths and not to build on our strengths.

4. Hardly seems like a winning approach.

5. We do not need a slew of young players on favorable contracts.

6. Seems that the best use of our picks is to use them in trades for players or future picks, and to concentrate them in trade-ups targeting 3-4 solid players.

7. We need to fill 3 or so holes on the D and fortify the O to contend and that's doable if we make the best use of FA, trades and our picks.

[AkronsWitness]

On 3/6/2021 at 7:21 PM, LinebackerGod said:

DL isn’t really deep tho. WR for sure is, but this is a horrible DT class and a slightly below average DE class. 

I feel like for the next 10+ years there is going to be a deep WR class. The way the college game is now and progression of players WRs are going to start becoming the new RB. Completely undervalued, considered a dime a dozen and replaceable after their rookie contracts are up.

[MWil23]

15 hours ago, AkronsWitness said:

I feel like for the next 10+ years there is going to be a deep WR class. The way the college game is now and progression of players WRs are going to start becoming the new RB. Completely undervalued, considered a dime a dozen and replaceable after their rookie contracts are up.

I say this as a HS Coach...what's remarkable to me, even as opposed to 5 years ago, is that a lot of guys who would have been BIG TIME prospects as RB, are now WR today. With all of the RPO, spread, jet sweep, bubble screen, etc. concepts, those guys are getting a ton of touches in space and the "trickle down effect" from the devaluation of the RB position in the NFL is already starting down here too.

[zelbell]

 

[LinebackerGod]

39 minutes ago, zelbell said:

 

Newsome is an absolute superstar CB #1 based on tape and athletic skills.

However, his injury history is extensive and might push him down draft boards. But the dude has excellent skills as a pass defender.

[NudeTayne]

1 hour ago, LinebackerGod said:

Newsome is an absolute superstar CB #1 based on tape and athletic skills.

However, his injury history is extensive and might push him down draft boards. But the dude has excellent skills as a pass defender.

I'd be real nervous about him in round 1, but he likely still be gone before we pick in round 2. Where would you grab him?

[FGK]

32 minutes ago, NudeTayne said:

I'd be real nervous about him in round 1, but he likely still be gone before we pick in round 2. Where would you grab him?

I think I'm with you. 20s is the earliest I'd start looking at him, and I probably wouldn't pull the trigger until the late 30s-early 40s. But he will likely go before then to a franchise that has more wiggle room than us as far as absorbing a R1 bust. He could be an absolute star, or he could be a guy getting signed to a bunch of one year "prove it" deals by the end of his rookie contract.

[LinebackerGod]

I think we’re gonna be in a weird spot. We will be picking the leftovers of the edge and CB spots. The players available will be just as talented, if not more talented, than the players taken prior. They’ll just have health red flags.

Right now, I think Newsome and Phillips are steals at 26, but both need to be healthy. 

[LinebackerGod]

37 minutes ago, NudeTayne said:

I'd be real nervous about him in round 1, but he likely still be gone before we pick in round 2. Where would you grab him?

Gotta take him at 26. He won’t be there in a trade down. Might not even be there at 26, tbh. His tape, while not ad extensive, is as good as anyone’s in the country.