James Harden traded to Brooklyn

[beekay414]

@TheRealMcCoy I mean, piggybacking off my last point, think about it. LeBron James gets PUNISHED for making 9 straight NBA Finals (10 straight if we're going just off LeBron's playoff appearances) and only coming out with 3 titles (4 based on the other part of the point). None of that makes sense. The ******* dude made 9 (10) straight NBA Finals with 2 (3) teams! How is that not something we celebrate? Ah, right, because only the Finals W/L record counts.

[TheRealMcCoy]

27 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

I get it but I also don't. When I say that, I mean for everyone. Harden would likely have a title if Chris Paul doesn't get hurt. Giannis has a title if Fred VanVleet doesn't turn into the greatest shooter of all-time. There are just so many variables that go into winning any title that basing success on championships is so narrowminded. 

Yeah. I won't go as far as to say those things.

I would've liked to see if Harden and Giannis made those Finals if they would've won and they very well may have, but I would need to see it.

But, obviously context is important and gets lost or just completely ignored in our hot take society thanks to programs like First Take/Undisputed and the rise of social media.

[TheRealMcCoy]

46 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

@TheRealMcCoy I mean, piggybacking off my last point, think about it. LeBron James gets PUNISHED for making 9 straight NBA Finals (10 straight if we're going just off LeBron's playoff appearances) and only coming out with 3 titles (4 based on the other part of the point). None of that makes sense. The ******* dude made 9 (10) straight NBA Finals with 2 (3) teams! How is that not something we celebrate? Ah, right, because only the Finals W/L record counts.

Yeah, its wild. LeBron ain't the same level of closer and could benefit from that same killer instinct that Michael showed. Sometimes LeBron is too passive/analytical. Also, I don't know how Michael's career would've gone if he came into the same situation in Cleveland as LeBron at 18 years old. I guarantee MJ wouldn't have gone undefeated in however many Finals he made in todays day and age. The whole 6-0 is just a cop out people take cause its the easiest narrative and ignores context and situations they came into. I doubt MJ would've stayed in Cleveland with what he was surrounded with. He would've left in FA after his 2nd contract too. He wants to win too much to stay in a situation like that. No offense to Cavs fans.

People just need to enjoy LeBron while he's here, because it won't be for a lot longer. Although, with how he takes care of his body and his durability.... who knows lol. We'll never see another player like him just like there will never be another MJ. I wish I was old enough to have experienced Jordan besides old NBA Classic games and YouTube highlights and there will undoubtedly be a generation being born in recent years and in the future that will have that same feeling. 

To me I can't speak on if Jordan was greater, cause I didn't get to experience his career like I did LeBron's. 

Ultimately I think LeBron will have the edge on Jordan as far as how good he was for how long, but Michael from everything I've seen and read probably had the higher peak.

Edit: With that said.... I don't think LeBron cares about Skip or all his haters on social media like a younger Bron probably did.

Dude just tweeted this like he's one of those girls that is all about healing and astrology lmfaooooo.

He's in the best spot of his career in his old age with probably the greatest team on paper that he's ever played with.

Happy for dude. Hope he continues going into other ventures after he hangs it up and trains young guys time to time and imparts knowledge just like Kobe did after he retired. Also, get to see his son make it in the league hopefully too. Not sure if Bronny is that good, but there's plenty of time. Makes me sad that Gianna never got to go to her dream school or become a great WNBA player like most believed she would. Still can't get over their deaths. I get emotional whenever I sit down and really think about it.

Edited December 22, 2020 by TheRealMcCoy

[turtle28]

If MJ was able to enter the NBA at 18, he probably wouldn’t have started as a rookie unlike LeBron bc Lebron was built like a MAN in Middle School. 
 

I think MJ would’ve had to develop over his first two years at 18 & 19 years old like he did at UNC and then at 20 years old would’ve been averaging 25 pts a game where he became amazing/unguarded by his 3rd year. He probably wouldn’t have gone to the Bulls, he would’ve gone in the teens like Kobe if he had entered out of HS. Which, means he would’ve ended up on a playoff team or near playoff team and been that teams 6th or 7th man as a rookie.

I don’t think the 6-0 finals appearances changes. Remember MJ couldn’t beat the Celtics & Pistons to get into the Finals his first 6 years then, Jordan became better all around as he passed more, Pippen & Grant entered their prime and Jordan played more team ball in the 90s. If Jordan hadn’t retired after his Dad was murdered he would’ve won 8 in a row IMO and if Jerry Krause wasn’t an arse and broke the Bulls up Jordan may have won 1 or 2 more before retiring in 2000.

I can’t really compare Jordan & Lebron bc they’re different players. To me, the comparison is Magic vs Lebron and I’d take Lebron and MJ vs Kobe and I’d take MJ.

Edited December 22, 2020 by turtle28

[TheRealMcCoy]

10 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I can’t really compare Jordan & Lebron bc they’re different players. To me, the comparison is Magic vs Lebron and I’d take Lebron and MJ vs Kobe and I’d take MJ.

LeBron is like if Magic had the strength and ability to get to cup like Karl Malone. He's such a unique player.

MJ definitely isn't a great comparison. I always understood Kobe, even though he wasn't on the same level, cause he patterned most of his game after Jordan.

10 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I think MJ would’ve had to develop over his first two years at 18 & 19 years old like he did at UNC and then at 20 years old would’ve been averaging 25 pts a game where he became amazing/unguarded by his 3rd year. He probably wouldn’t have gone to the Bulls, he would’ve gone in the teens like Kobe if he had entered out of HS. Which, means he would’ve ended up on a playoff team or near playoff team and been that teams 6th or 7th man as a rookie.

Yeah that is probably pretty accurate.

10 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I don’t think the 6-0 finals appearances changes. Remember MJ couldn’t beat the Celtics & Pistons to get into the Finals his first 6 years then, Jordan became better all around as he passed more, Pippen & Grant entered their prime and Jordan played more team ball in the 90s. If Jordan hadn’t retired after his Dad was murdered he would’ve won 8 in a row IMO and if Jerry Krause wasn’t an arse and broke the Bulls up Jordan may have won 1 or 2 more before retiring in 2000.

Maybe.... I won't say anything for sure, because I also think that break from basketball was a great thing for his body. Most guys break down after having played that much in the playoffs year after year. It almost always happens. Michael definitely could've won more though and I'm not trying to downplay his greatness, but just add to the point that context is always super important. Also, to add to that its why LeBron's durability is insane to me. To be doing the NBA grind since 18 years old and playing as many minutes to start his career and to go to all those Finals and deep in the playoffs when he didn't get to that stage is insane. Dude has more miles on him than my dad's Volvo that has enough miles to have gone to the moon and back twice.... lol.

Edited December 22, 2020 by TheRealMcCoy

[TheRealMcCoy]

This thread is about Harden though. I didn't mean for this to turn into a LeBron thing. I was just trying to make a point about Giannis.

Anyways... what kind of value would the Rockets get next offseason if they don't trade him this year? Feel like they can't just take any offer right now, but the longer they wait the less likely teams are gonna be to give the Rockets a package that really impresses them, especially if he shows any signs of regression this season.

[TheRealMcCoy]

Also, does anyone think the relationship between the Rockets and Harden is repairable? If they have a pretty good season would it change his mind?

[turtle28]

4 minutes ago, TheRealMcCoy said:

This thread is about Harden though. I didn't mean for this to turn into a LeBron thing. I was just trying to make a point about Giannis.

Anyways... what kind of value would the Rockets get next offseason if they don't trade him this year? Feel like they can't just take any offer right now, but the longer they wait the less likely teams are gonna be to give the Rockets a package that really impresses them, especially if he shows any signs of regression this season.

Yeah got off track. I 100% wouldn’t trade Harden until the trade deadline to drive up his price and probably not until July. I definitely agree they can’t take any offer and there’s also a chance that Harden starts to play with Wall, Wood & Cousins and likes the direction of the team and stays but that seems far fetched.

I mean Wall is a better fit with Harden to me than Russ was, Wall is a fit like Chris Paul was and Wall is a drive a kick and pass first player. Wall could even help set up Harden for some easier buckets as unbelievable as that may seem bc Wall does that for his teammates.

[DirtyDez]

14 hours ago, Pastor Dillon said:

Man I read a rumor that Boston is offering Smart and Brown for Harden. I’d do that straight up with no extra draft capitol. If I’m Boston there’s no way I do that. 
 

for the rockets though

wall/smart
gordon/McLemore 
brown/House
tucker/tate
wood/Cousins

 

thats a playoff team that could be really good defensively 
 

No way Ainge is offering both Brown & Smart.  Both entering their prime and under contract. 
 

If I’m Houston I’m pushing for either Jaylen Brown or Smart/Nesmith/pick. 

[turtle28]

7 hours ago, TheRealMcCoy said:

Also, does anyone think the relationship between the Rockets and Harden is repairable? If they have a pretty good season would it change his mind?

That’s really the truth of it all right, Harden is sick of being on a team that only has had a big 2 for as long as he’s been there, he wants to be on a big 3, whether that’s Brooklyn, Miami, Phila.

I don’t think the relationship is repairable between him and Houston. I mean the Rockets are set up to have a good season again w/ this mix of veteran and young talent plus Harden as an MVP type player but, they’re not a top 4 team in the west. I don’t think they win a playoff series in the West. 

[turtle28]

6 hours ago, DirtyDez said:

No way Ainge is offering both Brown & Smart.  Both entering their prime and under contract. 
 

If I’m Houston I’m pushing for either Jaylen Brown or Smart/Nesmith/pick. 

[Pastor Dillon]

6 hours ago, DirtyDez said:

No way Ainge is offering both Brown & Smart.  Both entering their prime and under contract. 
 

If I’m Houston I’m pushing for either Jaylen Brown or Smart/Nesmith/pick. 

Has to be both or there is no deal 

a little thing called a salary cap 

Edited December 22, 2020 by Pastor Dillon

[DoleINGout]

6 hours ago, DirtyDez said:

No way Ainge is offering both Brown & Smart.  Both entering their prime and under contract. 
 

If I’m Houston I’m pushing for either Jaylen Brown or Smart/Nesmith/pick. 

Smart/Nesmith/pick for James Harden? Is this a joke? Take it, please. Ainge would be incompetent to pass that up. Rockets taking that deal would be dumb.

[Pastor Dillon]

48 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

That’s really the truth of it all right, Harden is sick of being on a team that only has had a big 2 for as long as he’s been there, he wants to be on a big 3, whether that’s Brooklyn, Miami, Phila.

I don’t think the relationship is repairable between him and Houston. I mean the Rockets are set up to have a good season again w/ this mix of veteran and young talent plus Harden as an MVP type player but, they’re not a top 4 team in the west. I don’t think they win a playoff series in the West. 

I could see them as a top 4 seed in the west if harden was dialed in. I think Wood is gonna break out and having him and cousins playing the center position is gonna make the rockets really dangerous. 
 

I also think wall is a better fit than Westbrook. 
 

the coaching will be better than under MDA 

they now have 3 PJ Tucker type players with Tate and Nwaba 

this team could be really stinking good if they had a dialed in Harden. 
 

harden claims he just wants to win, if that’s the case and the rockets keep him, I don’t think he will mail it in for the season and waste one of the remaining years of his prime sulking. 
 

if everyone is healthy and locked in, the clippers and lakers scare me and no one else does. I also think we got better equipped to play with the lakers. 
 

I’m obviously a homer but I think this could be the most complete team harden has had on the rockets. We have 3 guys in Wall/Wood/Gordon who should average between 15-20 points per game. 
 

the biggest wildcard is Christian Wood. I wasn’t a fan of giving up Covington for Wood, but I was impressed by everything I saw and read about him. If he morphes into this 20/10 guy, the rockets will be really good. 
 

I think we are a playoff team post harden trade, assuming we get real value. 

[Pastor Dillon]

1 minute ago, DoleINGout said:

Smart/Nesmith/pick for James Harden? Is this a joke? Take it, please. Ainge would be incompetent to pass that up. Rockets taking that deal would be dumb.

They can’t make that deal work #SalaryCap