Notable Stats and Observations

[Soko]

It’s not really about being offended by what one said vs how an action was interpreted. Right now it’s the perceived slight against a very courageous and 100% just movement. 

I hope they talk it out at some point, and I’m sure they will. Jenkins and Brees seem intelligent and mature enough to do so. 

MT though...

[Calvert28]

1 minute ago, seminoles1 said:

Nope, they were simply using their available platform to send a message about something they believed in. Kneeling for the national anthem for an NFL game was going to be seen and talked about far more than a peaceful protest in the streets 4 years ago.

The knees Kaepernick and the others took have done far more than any press conference or sudden retirement could have in regards to starting conversations and helping to bring about change.

And how much more effective would it have been had they shut down Sunday football to do it while sacrificing their paychecks as well?

How many people do you think would have been calling them ingrates or saying their disrespectful for making such a sacrifice? I doubt, very very few except for some select few maybe on here.

Instead of causing controversy, they cause massive awareness and debate. Instead of endless debates of whether or not they are being patriotic they take the martyr route and lay down in front of the tanks? You say it did alot of good and yet this is just another example of it causing more anger and divisiveness then it does unity and agreement. 

Tactfully it was piss poor.

[DannyB]

14 minutes ago, Calvert28 said:

I understand where you're coming from. 

But the part in bold is where the issue is on both sides.While they say Brees is ignorant (which BTW is disrespectful) and disrespectful but somehow they are not. 

Like Yin-Yang said, this is all getting lost in the business. 

first of all, is it disrespectful to call somebody ignorant, if they appear to be ignorant about something?

Second, don't you understand how there's a difference between criticizing how somebody else is (peacefully, not disturbing anybody) doing something that has nothing to do with you, and being criticized for doing so?

[RabidPanther89]

17 minutes ago, Calvert28 said:

Im really questioning whether or not you did.

He made it clear he supported the fight against injustice but he disagreed with taking that route to fight it.

Lol and most effective? No, absolutely not. They did it in one of the laziest and yes IMO disrespectful ways to bring attention. You want MOST effective? I bet you had they started the game and every team playing that Sunday took the field and knelt down refusing to play the game to bring attention, chatting with reporters about why they are doing it. Putting their careers and and livelihoods on the line. That would have been one hell of a message for the history books to everyone about the violence. 

But would they do that? Civil Rights Heroes made similar statements that put their reputations, livelihoods and lives on the line to do whats right. But not these guys, oh no, you didn't see Kaep out there with the protesters. No one barely even noticed him for weeks, but how much quicker do you think that movement would have came about if he pulled a Glen Coffee or Pat Tillman and just up and quit to go do what he thought was right? I'm willing to bet you anything the reporters would have come in droves to see him do it. 

Except that's not what happened was it? Oh no these guys still wanted to have their cake and eat it too. They wanted to protest but didn't want to do anything that would jeopardize what they already had and wanted to keep going. 

Kneeling is an effective form of protesting but it all depends on where your doing it and these guys weren't exactly facing the dogs, fire hoses, and beatings to make that statement were they?

Well the way I see it, it was pretty effective. We are still talking about it now are we not? To kneel on the anthem on a national broadcast is effective, simple, powerful and far reaching.

To call it disrespectful is your opinion and to say he didn’t do enough and didn’t quit that second and form a protest in the street is also arbitrary. He doesn’t have to meet your standards of protest or do any more than he felt at the time. But it was smart way to go about it because it forced millions of people to see it every week. 
And clearly he sacrificed his career at this point. He also doesn’t have to be a perfect person to fight an injustice. He and others used their platform to shed light on the problem. That’s needed whether they experience the full gamut  of oppression or not.

We seem to fundamentally disagree on what’s respect for the military. In my opinion it was shameful of the NFL to try and suppress a players right to kneel. Kaep kneeled at the suggestion of a veteran also. The league is showing itself to be behind the times.

[Calvert28]

22 minutes ago, DannyB said:

first of all, is it disrespectful to call somebody ignorant, if they appear to be ignorant about something?

Second, don't you understand how there's a difference between criticizing how somebody else is (peacefully, not disturbing anybody) doing something that has nothing to do with you, and being criticized for doing so?

Not if they already show their understanding and knowledge of why it's being done in the first place. Seems they only called him ignorant because he did not agree with the tactic of how to raise awareness. So they accuse him of not understanding so therefore they want to spread the misinformation that he is somehow ignorant. 

Lol is freedom of speech something that is not to be practiced now? Disagreements happen all the time, Brees was asked a question and he answered it honestly by saying he thought it was disrespectful. He claimed the flag was a symbol of unity for EVERYONE to stand behind, he did not say the movement was wrong in its core ideals, nor did he say it should just be disbanded altogether, or any other extreme stance. But he made it clear the flag meant everybit as much to him as Jenkins said the movement meant to him. They both pulled their reasons from a place in their history and from their core of principles. So actually it was disturbing people, it in fact disturbed a great many people. Which is why there was more weeks discussing patriotism then there was better police enforcement to end senseless killings. The tactic which some actually thought did such a great thing did more to cause a divide then to help clear up these issues had it been done a different way like one that I suggested before. 

Seeing people fly off the handle over the comment Brees, do you not see the similarities of anger when you heard people just a couple of years before comparing the kneeling with actual terrorism? Even in this thread you can just read comments in here with others just seething angst into the posts not even realizing what was being talked about. So no I dont think there is any real difference in the criticism because it all comes from the same place. 

[Calvert28]

39 minutes ago, RabidPanther89 said:

Well the way I see it, it was pretty effective. We are still talking about it now are we not? To kneel on the anthem on a national broadcast is effective, simple, powerful and far reaching.

To call it disrespectful is your opinion and to say he didn’t do enough and didn’t quit that second and form a protest in the street is also arbitrary. He doesn’t have to meet your standards of protest or do any more than he felt at the time. But it was smart way to go about it because it forced millions of people to see it every week. 
And clearly he sacrificed his career at this point. He also doesn’t have to be a perfect person to fight an injustice. He and others used their platform to shed light on the problem. That’s needed whether they experience the full gamut  of oppression or not.

We seem to fundamentally disagree on what’s respect for the military. In my opinion it was shameful of the NFL to try and suppress a players right to kneel. Kaep kneeled at the suggestion of a veteran also. The league is showing itself to be behind the times.

Not really? We're discussing Drew Brees and whether or not he's ignorant not how to stop senseless killings but then again we're not allowed to. 

Sidenote, Kaep wasn't going to have a career after his contract was up. There are many who agreed who did little to adapt to the NFL defensive schemes and learn to be a better QB. So we will definitely have fundamental differences on that one, I can appreciate the sincerity of Malcolm Jenkins dedication not Kaep. 

[DannyB]

42 minutes ago, Calvert28 said:

And how much more effective would it have been had they shut down Sunday football to do it while sacrificing their paychecks as well?

I promise you -- promise you -- that the majority of the people that disagreed with his issue would have FOR SURE have displaced that into criticizing his form of protest. I've never been so sure of anything else in my life. How? Because I've been alive for a few years now, and I've read enough history, to know that they ALWAYS always always criticize the method. It's NEVER the right way.

"I'm not saying it isn't a serious issue, but now he's affecting his whole team by not playing! He's being selfish and making the issue all about him! He should find a way to make his point, but still play the game so that his teammates, who have also worked hard and sacrificed, don't have to suffer!"

In the 1968 Olympic Games, Tommie Smith and John Carlos raised a fist and bowed their heads during the anthem while they were standing on pedestals to get their medals. Australian Peter Normal joined them in wearing a specific badge (I won't get into the whole thing here). They were PILLORIED when they returned to their home countries. Smith and Carlos were eviscerated and received numerous death threats. Time Magazine said it made the games "Angrier, nastier, uglier". Brent Musburger, yes, THAT Brent Musburger, wrote that they were "a couple of black-skinned storm troopers" who were "ignoble," "juvenile," and "unimaginative." The country of Australia formally apologized for the way they treated Normal upon his return...in 2012, over four decades after the event, and six years after Norman's death.

There is no "right way" for certain people in this country to make their voices heard without infuriating a huge segment of the population.

[DannyB]

9 minutes ago, Calvert28 said:

Lol is freedom of speech something that is not to be practiced now?

*most exasperated sigh in human history*

 

[Calvert28]

31 minutes ago, DannyB said:

*most exasperated sigh in human history*

 

Lol guess you didn't catch the sarcasm there?

[11sanchez11]

8 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

What are these riots accomplishing

among other things

like all 4 cops being charged

and ppl informing themselves on ways that actually decrease police violence and hopefully getting them to apply them

"riots" have literally helped ppl in this country get more equal rights

also a bunch of ppl got like new tvs and yeezys lol

 

tho I do agree that ppl are way into cancel culture

it's also hilarious that brees did kneel during the anthem, eventually 

Edited June 4, 2020 by 11sanchez11

[11sanchez11]

 

5 hours ago, Calvert28 said:

Why does he have to grow or learn anything? He says he disagrees with it and thinks it's disrespectful. These players think he's being disrespectful stating his beliefs but he is not allowed to think of this as a sign of disrespect? 

If I walk into Japanese restaurant where the custom may be to remove your shoes and I choose not to do so because I feel awkward without them so they refuse to serve me. Am I being disrespectful for not honoring their culture belief or are they being disrespectful for not respecting my insecurity? Not honoring the flag when it is presented during the National Anthem is seen by him as incredibly disrespectful. Protest or no protest. 

he doesn't think it was that disrespectful seeing as he actually did it lol

if there is one thing the flag represents it is definitely being contradictory about oppression, so go for it brees 

Edited June 4, 2020 by 11sanchez11

[11sanchez11]

3 hours ago, Calvert28 said:

There are many who agreed who did little to adapt to the NFL defensive schemes and learn to be a better QB

lol

taysom hill just got 21 million dollars to be bad at like 3 different positions 

he's (was) better than literally every single backup in the league and some of the starters.

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[ET80]

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