The Pats QB situation

[Crimmage]

I don't think the depth is as great as people think at Corner. A lot of young guys / unknowns will be getting playing time next season. BB certainly puts a high value on having a top corner on his defense, hence why he went out and spent big money on Gilmore a few years ago. 

 

Depth Chart: 

• Stephen Gilmore ( 1YR Remaining)
  •  Reports were that last year Gilmore was going to hold out for more money.. so money was pushed forward from this season to appease him.
  • IMO 0 chance he shows up for his current salary. He either gets traded, cut or holds out.
  • Why would BB extend a corner who will be 31 at the start of the season? 
• JC Jackson (1YR Tender more than likely)
  • 1 YR Tender, BB will offer him a team friendly deal.. but I have a feeling he is going to want top dollar
  • I don't think the team will view him as a #1, he is an amazing ball hawking #2 thanks to Gilmore .. but this upcoming season will prove if he can be Gilmore ( assuming he is gone like I assume) 
• Jonathan Jones ( 2 Yrs Remaining) 
  • No issues here, he is still young and a good slot corner
• JoeJuan Williams (2 Yrs Remaining) 
  • Tough to know what is going on with him.. didn't play as a rookie.. seemed to get transitioned to safety last season but still didn't play a huge number of snaps
  • I think the plan is for him to be McCourtys replacement and he will get time next season at safety to prove he can take over .. but he could just as easily be cut, back at corner or traded .. so far another 2nd round bust DB until proven otherwise
• Jason McCourty (Free Agent)
  • The only way he is back imo is if he is a package deal with Devin for 1 more year.. either way having him here wouldn't stop me from drafting a corner 
• Myles Bryant / D'Angelo Ross / Micheal Jackson (Rookies)
  • Didn't see much of them.. I suppose the depth depends on how high you are on them... is one of these guys the next JC Jackson?  

If you think Jackson is a true #1 corner and gets resigned then I'll agree that corner at 15 would be a luxury pick though. 

[m haynes]

17 hours ago, Starless said:

should all be viewed with extreme skepticism.

I agree 100% but what I like about Simms is he gives his reasons why based on (several game tapes) WHAT HE WATCHED not what has been said by the so call experts. Also he's a XQB so I value his opinion more than lets say Curran, Kipers of the world.

Also Simms has a pretty good track record when it come to his list when he evaluates QBs. I laughed at him when he put LJackson as his #1 QB. Showing his track record.

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/2021-nfl-draft-qb-rankings-chris-simms-top-six-may-interest-patriots-fans

I also think Wilson (for months) the best QB in the draft. However I would take Lawrence #1 because we are talking A and 1A stuff here. Lawerence gets the nod because of his size. Big issue IMO with QBs on crap teams with weak OL. See Borrows and David Carr.

Last, I don't see it in Mond at all but I value his opinion and I will give it another look see.

[Hunter2_1]

12 hours ago, Crimmage said:

I don't think the depth is as great as people think at Corner. A lot of young guys / unknowns will be getting playing time next season. BB certainly puts a high value on having a top corner on his defense, hence why he went out and spent big money on Gilmore a few years ago. 

 

Depth Chart: 

• Stephen Gilmore ( 1YR Remaining)
  •  Reports were that last year Gilmore was going to hold out for more money.. so money was pushed forward from this season to appease him.
  • IMO 0 chance he shows up for his current salary. He either gets traded, cut or holds out.
  • Why would BB extend a corner who will be 31 at the start of the season? 
• JC Jackson (1YR Tender more than likely)
  • 1 YR Tender, BB will offer him a team friendly deal.. but I have a feeling he is going to want top dollar
  • I don't think the team will view him as a #1, he is an amazing ball hawking #2 thanks to Gilmore .. but this upcoming season will prove if he can be Gilmore ( assuming he is gone like I assume) 
• Jonathan Jones ( 2 Yrs Remaining) 
  • No issues here, he is still young and a good slot corner
• JoeJuan Williams (2 Yrs Remaining) 
  • Tough to know what is going on with him.. didn't play as a rookie.. seemed to get transitioned to safety last season but still didn't play a huge number of snaps
  • I think the plan is for him to be McCourtys replacement and he will get time next season at safety to prove he can take over .. but he could just as easily be cut, back at corner or traded .. so far another 2nd round bust DB until proven otherwise
• Jason McCourty (Free Agent)
  • The only way he is back imo is if he is a package deal with Devin for 1 more year.. either way having him here wouldn't stop me from drafting a corner 
• Myles Bryant / D'Angelo Ross / Micheal Jackson (Rookies)
  • Didn't see much of them.. I suppose the depth depends on how high you are on them... is one of these guys the next JC Jackson?  

If you think Jackson is a true #1 corner and gets resigned then I'll agree that corner at 15 would be a luxury pick though. 

Corner is my prediction if we stay at 15

 

I also don't think JC is as good as a lot of us like to think he is, but that's a different topic.

[m haynes]

40 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said:

JC Jackson (1YR Tender more than likely)

He's (100%) gone IMO he will get a contract like Butler and the Pats let him walk, which I agree totally.

 

40 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said:

JoeJuan Williams (2 Yrs Remaining) 

Cut him he useless and as you mentioned a bust. There is no way he can replace McCourty to slow to go sideline to sideline.  PS  I say cut him if he is taking a spot of a younger player with promise.

@Hunter2_1

40 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said:

Corner is my prediction if we stay at 15

 

I also don't think JC is as good as a lot of us like to think he is, but that's a different topic.

I agree if there is no QB in play. That's what I want at 15 however there are three moves with the pick if they pass on QB Here's what I would want.

• Take Jaycee Horn. Love his game.  IMO he might turn out to be the best in the draft. but I sure do like Surtain as well.
• Trade down cumulative picks.  Love to trade down and get a CB
• I would not be shock if BB takes Zaven Collins. Matter of fact, IMO he's the better player for the Pats than Parsons. It has to do with scheme and fit into the defense. His size is what BB covets. Think Hightower.

The last thing I want at 15 is a WR or Pitts. Pitt would be a fantastic pick if we didn't have so many holes.  Remember I go for trees over ornaments!!

Great TE or a shutdown corner. Corner wins every time. 3rd most important position on the field. QB, LT, SCB.

Forgot Jackson, I agree 100% what you said on Jackson being overrated.

 

Edited March 5, 2021 by m haynes

[Apparition]

My prediction is that this is all moot because Gilmore will be on the team this year. 

[m haynes]

19 hours ago, Starless said:

My prediction is that this is all moot because Gilmore will be on the team this year. 

I'm not sure.  I stink when it comes to the cap and I'm not sure what his salary is for 2021. I see some saying 16 mil and others saying 7 mil base. Just say what the heck he's going to make. Sorry venting on Sports writers.

Imo It depends on the salary. If it's 7 mil he might be on the team but he won't show until he has to and BB knows this.  BB will trade him however he won't give him away for free. He's at worth a 3rd comp down the line.

Also Gilmore stories are everywhere based on Jason La Canfora of CBS story recentlyhe put out.  So that means the SW don't know Richard !!!

Edited March 6, 2021 by m haynes

[Crimmage]

8 hours ago, m haynes said:

I'm not sure.  I stink when it comes to the cap and I'm not sure what his salary is for 2021. I see some saying 16 mil and others saying 7 mil base. Just say what the heck he's going to make. Sorry venting on Sports writers.

Imo It depends on the salary. If it's 7 mil he might be on the team but he won't show until he has to and BB knows this.  BB will trade him however he won't give him away for free. He's at worth a 3rd comp down the line.

Also Gilmore stories are everywhere based on Jason La Canfora of CBS story recentlyhe put out.  So that means the SW don't know Richard !!!

I believe his cap hit is 16 but he is actually making 7 million. They restructured last year to give him an extra 5 million or something like that but it was actually just money from this season they gave him early to get him to show up to camp. If he were to be cut or traded they would save 6 million and change in cap space. 

The cap isn't the issue.. the issue is that there is 0 chance Gilmore plays making so far less then the going rate at CB. He is going to want 14+ million and likely knows this is his last chance to get a bigger deal. 

 

Do you want to sign him to a 3 year 40 million dollar deal right now? That's probably what it would take to make him happy.. but seeing the trajectory of corners.. do you expect him to still be elite much longer? Seems like a bad investment which is why BB would trade him and let someone else give him a big deal ( a team going for a title next 1-3 seasons and he can help push them over the top) 

[m haynes]

4 hours ago, Crimmage said:

I believe his cap hit is 16 but he is actually making 7 million. They restructured last year to give him an extra 5 million or something like that but it was actually just money from this season they gave him early to get him to show up to camp. If he were to be cut or traded they would save 6 million and change in cap space. 

The cap isn't the issue.. the issue is that there is 0 chance Gilmore plays making so far less then the going rate at CB. He is going to want 14+ million and likely knows this is his last chance to get a bigger deal. 

 

Do you want to sign him to a 3 year 40 million dollar deal right now? That's probably what it would take to make him happy.. but seeing the trajectory of corners.. do you expect him to still be elite much longer? Seems like a bad investment which is why BB would trade him and let someone else give him a big deal ( a team going for a title next 1-3 seasons and he can help push them over the top) 

I look at the money as chump change. Just like his 1st contract which at the time was considered big money. I will go the Charles Woodson route with Gimore.  How much is Mccourty making 50+. but i'm not sure Gilmore would agree with my plan!!

[Crimmage]

1 minute ago, m haynes said:

I look at the money as chump change. Just like his 1st contract which at the time was considered big money. I will go the Charles Woodson route with Gimore.  How much is Mccourty making 50+. but i'm not sure Gilmore would agree with my plan!!

That's really the only way I think it works, if they extend him to a 3-4 year deal with the assumption that after this season he is McCourty's replacement. 

BUT, I think I would still rather have the 2nd round pick. In the 2nd you can draft a young safety to pair with Dugger and continue to add youth and speed to the defense. Long term we are better off with a 22yr old safety than a 32 year old Gilmore at safety.

[Crimmage]

To get back to QB's on this thread, I'm actually warming up to Kellen Mond more as a developmental QB. 

He seems to have all the tools and I've read that his coaches are idiots which could mean you can coach him out of his inconsistencies. I admittedly didn't watch any of his games last two seasons but given that I do not want a 1st round QB he is likely the best option. 

 

Funny how a month ago he was a 4th rounder and now all of a sudden because of Simms people are saying he goes late 1st / early 2nd though.

[DoleINGout]

On 3/4/2021 at 9:13 PM, Crimmage said:

Didn't see much of them.. I suppose the depth depends on how high you are on them... is one of these guys the next JC Jackson?  

Myles Bryant will sooner be what we hoped Joejuan Williams would be out of the gate. Both decent players right now but Bryant has a lot of potential.

[Dan33185]

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/jimmy-garoppolo-remains-patriots-top-qb-target-for-2021-as-49ers-consider-upgrade-per-report/

 

Quote

San Francisco 49ers general manager John Lynch "really believes" Jimmy Garoppolo will be back as the team's starting quarterback in 2021, but the rest of the NFL isn't so sure. That includes Garoppolo's old squad, the New England Patriots, who still have the 29-year-old signal-caller as their top target for the upcoming season. That's according to Greg Bedard of the Boston Sports Journal, who reported this week that Garoppolo is "far and away their 'Plan A'" at quarterback for this season.

"The optimal situation for the Patriots this coming season," Bedard said on his Patriots podcast, "is Jimmy G coming back here."

That would require the 49ers initiating or at least listening to trade offers for Garoppolo, who is under contract through 2022. But that doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility, regardless of Lynch's latest insistence that Garoppolo could return under center. Lynch, after all, is still just one year removed from admitting to a potential pursuit of Tom Brady as a Garoppolo replacement, and coach Kyle Shanahan has been even more upfront about the possibility of upgrading at QB ahead of 2021.

The Patriots' reported interest in Garoppolo comes as no surprise. Four years after trading the former second-round draft pick to San Francisco, New England is in dire need of a successor to Tom Brady, who gave way to a middling and injured Cam Newton in 2020. The Patriots are reportedly not enamored with this year's crop of free agent QBs, which would include Newton, and they've reportedly already been calling about every veteran signal-caller perceived to be available via trade.

 

Garoppolo spent the first four seasons of his career in New England as Brady's backup. A two-time Super Bowl champion with the Pats, he's posted solid numbers as a starter for the Niners but has also struggled to stay on the field, missing 23 games since 2018.

 

[m haynes]

10 hours ago, Crimmage said:

To get back to QB's on this thread, I'm actually warming up to Kellen Mond more as a developmental QB. 

He seems to have all the tools and I've read that his coaches are idiots which could mean you can coach him out of his inconsistencies. I admittedly didn't watch any of his games last two seasons but given that I do not want a 1st round QB he is likely the best option. 

 

Funny how a month ago he was a 4th rounder and now all of a sudden because of Simms people are saying he goes late 1st / early 2nd though.

I went back and watched his vids. I agree to a point. I just don't see him as 2nd rd choice more of a 3/4th. His arm and release (throwing motion) are fine just what Simms claims however IMO his, lets call it body and foot work are God awful. Also If I remember correctly, he's never taken a snap under center. There was a vid I saw a while ago that pointed out a flaw in his mechanic and is part of his natural throwing motions that will cause him major problem if it can't be fixed, unfortunately I can't find it at this time. Its something like this (hope you can understand) He drops back, than when he goes to release he has a jump forward than drive his front leg. It wasted motion that he will have to break. Also his accuracy is really bad at times. Balls late or overthrown.

Everyone knows where I stand. I want Jones bad. My next would be Trask and than Mond.  I want no part of a gap QB unless he cost (Cap) NOTHING. Who ever  they draft, I would start him the 1st year and run my offense just like they did with Brisett against the Texans. Baby steps offense. Hand off 99% of the time if you have to. Matter of fact, throw the ball as much as they did with CN. I'm not into wasting time/years, I'm to old and have seen this with the Pats years ago. The Hamster wheels can spin for years!!!! 😁

Last this doesn't have to do with your comments but I am sick and tired of hearing  SW saying the Pats are looking for "today" new QB. 1st they have no clue what the Pats want and CN has no bearing which way they are going to go with there offense. IMO the reason they went with the 2020 offense is because they had no choice. They watched CN throw and they had no choice but to change. Now more stories are coming out Jimmy G the main target!!! Really give me a break.

Quote

Funny how a month ago he was a 4th rounder and now all of a sudden because of Simms people are saying he goes late 1st / early 2nd though.

That's the reason so many GM fail. They follow the heard. I hope BB is better than that. There are three QBs that stand out of many that the GM knew crap when drafting.  EJ Manuel, Chris Ponder and Jeno Smith. Follow the heard thinking. I laugh when they were picked especially  Bills with Manuel. That what I call a great draft for the PATS!!!!

Edited March 7, 2021 by m haynes

[m haynes]

 

[Vachon777]

Just watching Mond's youtube clips, he seems to badly underthrow a lot of passes and get bailed out by the receivers. If we're taking a late-round developmental guy, give me Ehlinger or Brock Purdy anytime.