Official New Orleans Pelicans Thread

[MookieMonstah]

46 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Maybe I missed when 50 points was a drastic difference.  Ingram shot nearly 50% from the field.  Tatum hit 45% from the field.  That's a big difference.

You said Tatum shot significantly worse in his 2nd year than his 1st year. I said he went from great shooting numbers to very good shooting numbers. Oh no, the sky is falling.

[CWood21]

6 minutes ago, MookieMonstah said:

The Nets unprotected 1st was a huge asset. That was a stupid take, own it. Ainge has never "hoarded" assets. He just doesnt piss them away like poor GMs do. 

I'm not sure I'd call it a huge asset.  A huge asset is a guaranteed #1 pick.  It's a damn good asset to have, but not something that teams are going to trip over themselves to land.  Especially when there's so much uncertainty where it was going to land.  And never hoarded assets, how many draft picks has Ainge had in the last 3 drafts?  By my count (according to Basketball-Reference), the Celtics have made 14 picks.  Of those 14 picks, only 5 of those are still on the team.  Of those 5, only 2 of them have averaged 15+ MPG.  They have had a TON of picks and haven't done anything with them outside of their top 3 picks.

EDIT: We've heard the last few years about how Ainge is waiting for a big splash, and it never comes.

[CWood21]

5 minutes ago, MookieMonstah said:

It's fine dude, just ignore circumstances. The ONLY time Tatum has been the Celtics #1 option, he absolutely thrived as a 19 year old. The Pelicans prefer the Celtics package by all reports and its because Tatum >> Ingram. You can bring a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

Ah yes, let's move the goalposts to fit the argument.  I mean, if Ingram wasn't playing with LeBron he would have averaged 25/8/5.  We can argue until we're blue in the face over hypotheticals.

[CWood21]

5 minutes ago, MookieMonstah said:

You said Tatum shot significantly worse in his 2nd year than his 1st year. I said he went from great shooting numbers to very good shooting numbers. Oh no, the sky is falling.

I mean, shooting 25 points worse from the field and over 60 points worse from beyond the arc definitely constitutes shooting significantly worse.  Maybe you have a different definition than I do.

[MookieMonstah]

2 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

I'm not sure I'd call it a huge asset.  A huge asset is a guaranteed #1 pick.  It's a damn good asset to have, but not something that teams are going to trip over themselves to land.  Especially when there's so much uncertainty where it was going to land.  And never hoarded assets, how many draft picks has Ainge had in the last 3 drafts?  By my count (according to Basketball-Reference), the Celtics have made 14 picks.  Of those 14 picks, only 5 of those are still on the team.  Of those 5, only 2 of them have averaged 15+ MPG.  They have had a TON of picks and haven't done anything with them outside of their top 3 picks.

EDIT: We've heard the last few years about how Ainge is waiting for a big splash, and it never comes.

Dude. You literally said he's a hoarder like the Morey but AT LEAST MOREY TRADED FOR HARDEN.

Ainge has traded for Kevin Garnett.

Ainge has traded for Ray Allen.

Ainge has traded for Kyrie Irving.

By all accounts, Ainge is willing to do whatever it takes to get Anthony Davis.

 

But yeah, Ainge is an asset hoarder who never makes big deals!!!!!!

[MookieMonstah]

1 minute ago, CWood21 said:

I mean, shooting 25 points worse from the field and over 60 points worse from beyond the arc definitely constitutes shooting significantly worse.  Maybe you have a different definition than I do.

If he went from 45/38 to 40/33 yeah I'd be worried but going from 47/43 to 45/37? Yeah, Im not worried. Those are still good shooting numbers.

[amac]

14 hours ago, CWood21 said:

How do you plan on dumping nearly $21M in salary?  Teams aren't going to willingly take on that kind of salary without some sort of incentive.  And I'm not sure future FRPs (even with limited protection) are going to get it done.  Plus, you have to get one of the big FAs to buy into signing with New Orleans.  Kawhi Leoanrd, Kevin Durant, and Klay Thomspon are definitely not going to sign in New Orleans.  I doubt Kyrie would either.  Kemba maybe if you had the biggest offer on the table.

Etwuan Moore is a good player and wouldn't actually be a dump. If anything I'd expect to get at least a 2nd rounder for him, though if we don't go for one of the max guys I'd just keep him. Solomon's deal is expiring so we could likely give some rebuilding team a 2nd rounder or two to take him on.

[amac]

17 hours ago, MookieMonstah said:

Pelicans would be better off signing Middleton and Beverley than bringing in a guy like Kemba or Kyrie. Zion will need touches to progress, you don't want him being the 4th wheel from his rookie year on.

I think just getting a Rubio or Rondo to run the team + a Bogdanovic type shooter would be really nice. But rarely will you have the chance to put together the kind of talent we'd have if we added Kemba, so it's something to consider even though Boston and Philly's recent showings make you worry about chemistry with that sort of team. D'Angelo Russell would be interesting if the Nets go a different route at PG

Middleton would be great if he would be cool with being mostly a 3&D guy, he'll probably get a giant contract and I'm not sure he'd be totally worth it to us, given we wouldn't really want him as more than a #3 or 4 option

Edited May 20, 2019 by amac

[MookieMonstah]

9 minutes ago, amac said:

Etwuan Moore is a good player and wouldn't actually be a dump. If anything I'd expect to get at least a 2nd rounder for him, though if we don't go for one of the max guys I'd just keep him. Solomon's deal is expiring so we could likely give some rebuilding team a 2nd rounder or two to take him on.

Yeah if the Pelicans can pretty easily create cap space. Solo's deal is a decent expiring and Moore might actually bring back a protected 2nd if you can trade him to a playoff team with a little bit of space.

[CWood21]

3 hours ago, MookieMonstah said:

Dude. You literally said he's a hoarder like the Morey but AT LEAST MOREY TRADED FOR HARDEN.

Ainge has traded for Kevin Garnett.

Ainge has traded for Ray Allen.

Ainge has traded for Kyrie Irving.

By all accounts, Ainge is willing to do whatever it takes to get Anthony Davis.

 

But yeah, Ainge is an asset hoarder who never makes big deals!!!!!!

Read what I'm saying.  SINCE Ainge traded for the Big 3, what major moves has Ainge made?  He made the Kyrie Irving trade, where the only notable asset he gave up was the Nets' FRP, which is a pretty substantial piece.  But the rest of the package was garbage, and worse it was for the right for the Cavaliers to throw max money at Isaiah Thomas.  Unfortunately for the Cavs, he got hurt and was eventually dealt to the Lakers.  So...the C's traded a damaged Isaiah Thomas, a pair of back of the bench pieces, and a significant piece which was a bit of a variable.  We've heard for the last few years that the C's were collecting their assets for a major move, and the only one they've made was Kyrie which I'd argue wasn't a very big move when you look at the bigger picture.  When Markelle Fultz was the clear #1 overall pick, they traded down.  Obviously in hindsight it proved to be the right decision, but it's a microcosm of Ainge in a nutshell.  Constantly looking to kick picks into the future.

[CWood21]

5 hours ago, amac said:

Etwuan Moore is a good player and wouldn't actually be a dump. If anything I'd expect to get at least a 2nd rounder for him, though if we don't go for one of the max guys I'd just keep him. Solomon's deal is expiring so we could likely give some rebuilding team a 2nd rounder or two to take him on.

It's not that he's a bad player.  It's the fact that you can get a comparable player in FA without giving up a pick.

[MookieMonstah]

12 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Read what I'm saying.  SINCE Ainge traded for the Big 3, what major moves has Ainge made?  He made the Kyrie Irving trade, where the only notable asset he gave up was the Nets' FRP, which is a pretty substantial piece.  But the rest of the package was garbage, and worse it was for the right for the Cavaliers to throw max money at Isaiah Thomas.  Unfortunately for the Cavs, he got hurt and was eventually dealt to the Lakers.  So...the C's traded a damaged Isaiah Thomas, a pair of back of the bench pieces, and a significant piece which was a bit of a variable.  We've heard for the last few years that the C's were collecting their assets for a major move, and the only one they've made was Kyrie which I'd argue wasn't a very big move when you look at the bigger picture.  When Markelle Fultz was the clear #1 overall pick, they traded down.  Obviously in hindsight it proved to be the right decision, but it's a microcosm of Ainge in a nutshell.  Constantly looking to kick picks into the future.

So you're knocking Ainge for being...smart? "He stole Kyrie with his assets that didn't amount to much" "He made a smart move and traded down from Fultz to get Tatum and the #14 pick this year"

 

Im lost. You're literally knocking Ainge for being a successful GM. Who has made bigger moves in the last decade?

[CWood21]

50 minutes ago, MookieMonstah said:

So you're knocking Ainge for being...smart? "He stole Kyrie with his assets that didn't amount to much" "He made a smart move and traded down from Fultz to get Tatum and the #14 pick this year"

 

Im lost. You're literally knocking Ainge for being a successful GM. Who has made bigger moves in the last decade?

Being smart?  No.  The Kyrie trade is EXACTLY like the Pau trade years ago.  I'm knocking him for lucking into damn near perfect situations.  I don't give credit for Mitch Kupchak trading for Pau Gasol.  If Markelle Fultz had turned out to be who they thought he would be, and Tatum sucked we'd be blasting him right now.  If the Nets' pick conveyed as the #1 overall pick, we'd be blasting him right now.  Luck is certainly part of the business, but I'm not giving credit when you manage to luck into moves based on hindsight.

[MookieMonstah]

56 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Being smart?  No.  The Kyrie trade is EXACTLY like the Pau trade years ago.  I'm knocking him for lucking into damn near perfect situations.  I don't give credit for Mitch Kupchak trading for Pau Gasol.  If Markelle Fultz had turned out to be who they thought he would be, and Tatum sucked we'd be blasting him right now.  If the Nets' pick conveyed as the #1 overall pick, we'd be blasting him right now.  Luck is certainly part of the business, but I'm not giving credit when you manage to luck into moves based on hindsight.

...so we should knock Ainge because the moves might've not worked? lol this is one of the most asinine things I've seen on this forum. You said Ainge is an asset hoarder, NOBODY has made bigger moves the last decade. He added 2 sure fire HOF'ers and one of the best PGs in the league in Kyrie, and he's actively pursuing AD. Just admit that what you said was completely off base lol

[CWood21]

1 hour ago, MookieMonstah said:

...so we should knock Ainge because the moves might've not worked? lol this is one of the most asinine things I've seen on this forum. You said Ainge is an asset hoarder, NOBODY has made bigger moves the last decade. He added 2 sure fire HOF'ers and one of the best PGs in the league in Kyrie, and he's actively pursuing AD. Just admit that what you said was completely off base lol

No.  What exactly is asset hoarding?  It's collecting assets with the intention of never using them.  The only asset he's used so far is to draft Jayson Tatum and trading the Nets' pick to the Cavs as part of a Kyrie trade.