From "The Guy of the Guy"

[deeluxx3]

10 hours ago, KingTitan said:

Some notes:

There is a growing feeling that Joe Alt will be picked before 7. 

Titans like JC Lathum. Bill Callahan really has a thing for him.
Titans think highly of Junior Colson. 
Malik Nabers is a favorite of Brian Callahan. 
TJ Tampa is someone that Wilson likes.

Other guys with some favor in the draft room:
Dominck Puni
Matt Goncalves 
Jacob Cowing
 

Andres Peat. Tyrus Bowers ,Kwon Alexander and Quandre Diggs have high chances of being post draft signings, depending on how the draft plays out. 
Justin Simmons wants almost 11-12 million a year. 

 

inject all this into my veins

 

re: the free agents...I've been pounding the table for a while to bring in a vet presence at LB. I can't sit here and say I've been watching a ton of Bowser or Alexander...and seems both have been fighting injury bug...but know they're both high energy players that bring pop and juice. We need a sense of leadership at that position.

[KingTitan]

2 hours ago, TitanLegend said:

Latham's size worries me. He trimmed 20 pounds for his pro day, but he played at 360 despite being just under 6'6 at Bama.

Bill Callahan has earned the right to not be questioned about what he likes in an offensive lineman so I wouldn't be mad if they pick him given that's who he likes, but I hope we don't see a Becton situation where struggling with his weight is a consistent issue.

Yeah I feel you. I definitely felt the same at the start of the cycle. But looking at him and seeing him stone wall people. Seeing breakdowns and hearing some respected analysts break down his game, I see a lot of positives. The speed is the only concern and they talk about what he was asked to do vs what he can do. 

Body type, he measured 6'6 342 at the combine. I see he fits the body type of several OT's in the NFL. 
 

 

 

I think about people like:
Dion Dawkins

 

 

Trent Brown:

Michael Onwenu

[Daniel]

2 hours ago, TitanLegend said:

Latham's size worries me. He trimmed 20 pounds for his pro day, but he played at 360 despite being just under 6'6 at Bama.

Bill Callahan has earned the right to not be questioned about what he likes in an offensive lineman so I wouldn't be mad if they pick him given that's who he likes, but I hope we don't see a Becton situation where struggling with his weight is a consistent issue.

Latham's play worries me enough.  Texas game was pretty bad.  And in comparison to the other top tackles, he gave up a lot of pressures and sacks, for those that like those stats.  He gave up two sacks and 14 pressures this season.  Compare that to Alt's 1 sack and 5 pressures, Fashanu's 0 sacks and 10 pressures, Fuaga's 0 sacks and 12 pressures, and Fautanu's 0 and 15. (not including Mims because he played like half the snaps)

Now those numbers are not the most reliable things in my opinion, but the tape bares that out.  Watch Latham against Texas or Michigan and you'll see him get beat more often than you will see Fautanu or Fashanu against Michigan.  

Latham is pretty clearly the worst pass protector among the first round tackles.  With the possible exception of Fuaga, he's the most powerful tackle in the class, but he's almost certainly also the slowest, which imo clearly limits his upside.  He's a first rounder, but he's a run blocker first, second, and third.

I'd try to put my faith in Callahan if he's the pick, but Callahan's record isn't spotless.  Wills was drafted over Wirfs and is a middle of the road starting OT, and none of the other picks on the Browns in his tenure have become true starters, with the possible exception of last year's rookies.  Callahan the coach has a much better record than Callahan the scout.

[Andrei01]

Just now, deeluxx3 said:

inject all this into my veins

 

re: the free agents...I've been pounding the table for a while to bring in a vet presence at LB. I can't sit here and say I've been watching a ton of Bowser or Alexander...and seems both have been fighting injury bug...but know they're both high energy players that bring pop and juice. We need a sense of leadership at that position.

I think if you have a chance at Colson, and you like him that much, 38 is not really too rich and you should go for it. Otherwise, I think adding one other veteran presence is going to be needed, sure.

Curious they like Tampa that much. I think he's mostly been a Cover 2 corner because that's what they ran at Iowa St, and he's good at it, with some traits that might translate in a different scheme, especially Cover 3 where he could really thrive. I personally view him as a scheme-based prospect, tough to project otherwise, but could definitely see a world in which he gets to be really good in the league. 

[KingTitan]

6 minutes ago, Daniel said:

  Callahan the coach has a much better record than Callahan the scout.

I agree with this part. 

If you look at his past, only(I think) Fredricks and Zach Martin were drafted with him on staff that turned out to be great.

A lot of the others were on roster before he got there. He just helped mold them into great ones. 

[KingTitan]

8 minutes ago, KingTitan said:

I agree with this part. 

If you look at his past, only(I think) Fredricks and Zach Martin were drafted with him on staff that turned out to be great.

A lot of the others were on roster before he got there. He just helped mold them into great ones. 

I will add Brandon Scheriff to the list of drafted while on staff.

*We don't know how much say he had in picks.

[KingTitan]

28 minutes ago, Daniel said:

.  Texas game was pretty bad. 

Just looking back, Do you mind saying what you thought was bad?

I counted 1 and a possible pressure. 2 lunge/missed run blocks. No sacks given up. 

[Daniel]

I can maybe do a breakdown of his game later.  Right now, I'm just going off of memory, because I came away from that game more impressed with Christian Jones than JC Latham.

[-Hope-]

i’m not super worried about latham’s size because his attitude/intangibles seem pretty strong. i am definitely concerned with him as a pass protector though. there were too many moments on tape where he was juuuust barely able to redirect a speed rusher up past the pocket behind the QB that had me thinking, “against an nfl edge rusher he loses that rep.”

[Daniel]

Luckily, KT embedded it, so I don't have to.  OK.  So I'm gonna do like I do with most of these, and go through every time Latham makes a mistake, or anything other than that that's negative.  Positive stuff is generally pretty boring for OLs, unless it's a pancake or a particularly impressive block.

First play of the game, Latham goes to get to the second level to block a linebacker, and misses his block on Jaylan Ford.  He stops Ford from affecting the play with a block in the back, but gets away with it.

0:25, doesn't affect the play, but the Edge on him locks ups, and throws him aside to get by him.  May be schemed to be a short block, but it doesn't appear that way, since the QB is trying to do a dumpoff pass to the other side.

0:54, he tries to block low, and Edge swims over him.  Milroe gets him to stop with a fake handoff, but otherwise Edge could have come in unimpeded.  And even then, Milroe has to throw the ball away.

1:38, satisfying block where Latham buries his guy into the ground (same Edge from 0:25).

1:57, Latham misses his block on Ford, and ends up on the ground.  Gets just enough of him for Ford not to make the tackle, then, but he does just a second later.

2:08, again, Latham goes for a low block and his guy jumps him.  This is a run up the middle, so it may not have been important, so scheme might explain this one.

2:34, Latham on the edge against Ford, gets a hand on him, but Ford just swipes his hands away.  Doesn't affect the play.

3:20, nice pancake.

4:05, gives too much ground to the Edge, and he swipes at the QB, but Milroe escapes.  Milroe should not be there, but Latham lets that Edge come way in before he engages him with a block at all.

4:30, Latham literally throws Simon away and to the ground.  Simon was getting around him a little, but it didn't matter, Latham has enough strength to make him completely ineffective.  Great rep.

8:17, we're getting to where I see what might be some of the conditioning issues, and it may explain a lot of the blocks where I can't decide if it's the scheme, or Latham.  Here, Latham blocks his guys successfully.  For two seconds.  Then he kinda just disengages and stops.  His QB has scrambled out to the right side, and is there for that same Edge to take the head off of, and it's not like the Edge beats him; he just drops his hands and watches the guy go after the QB.  A little extra push or something could have bought Milroe a little more time on the scramble, even though he's out of the tackle box at that point, and there's only so much Latham can do.  I've noticed something similar in other plays I haven't outlined, but it really feels like Latham is doing the bare minimum.  It's not a loss, and I'm thinking some of these prior ones I've pointed out, and others I haven't aren't really losses, they're just lack of effort past a certain point.

8:45, DL overpowers Latham and walks him back past the QB and takes a swipe at him.

9:00, Latham makes a mistake of some kind engaging (can't tell), but shows great recovery staying on the block, getting a better latch, and keeping his guy where he is.  Good rep.

10:30, another effort issue.  Latham blocks out the DL, but stops, and that DL wallops the running back, who was still behind them.

11:00, not much happens here, but I see better recovery speed from Latham than you usually do.  Covers a lot of ground quickly.

11:10, gets beat around the edge, but gets away with a hold.

13:02, pulls to second level, unable to lock up with Ford again.

There we go.  If I can find time later, I'll dig up Fautanu against Texas for the sake of comparison, but yeah, this lines up with what I thought I remembered.  Quite a few missed blocks, and what may be a lack of effort or a lack of being in shape.  Either way, not what you want to see out of someone you're gonna take 7th overall imo.

[Andrei01]

37 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Luckily, KT embedded it, so I don't have to.  OK.  So I'm gonna do like I do with most of these, and go through every time Latham makes a mistake, or anything other than that that's negative.  Positive stuff is generally pretty boring for OLs, unless it's a pancake or a particularly impressive block.

First play of the game, Latham goes to get to the second level to block a linebacker, and misses his block on Jaylan Ford.  He stops Ford from affecting the play with a block in the back, but gets away with it.

0:25, doesn't affect the play, but the Edge on him locks ups, and throws him aside to get by him.  May be schemed to be a short block, but it doesn't appear that way, since the QB is trying to do a dumpoff pass to the other side.

0:54, he tries to block low, and Edge swims over him.  Milroe gets him to stop with a fake handoff, but otherwise Edge could have come in unimpeded.  And even then, Milroe has to throw the ball away.

1:38, satisfying block where Latham buries his guy into the ground (same Edge from 0:25).

1:57, Latham misses his block on Ford, and ends up on the ground.  Gets just enough of him for Ford not to make the tackle, then, but he does just a second later.

2:08, again, Latham goes for a low block and his guy jumps him.  This is a run up the middle, so it may not have been important, so scheme might explain this one.

2:34, Latham on the edge against Ford, gets a hand on him, but Ford just swipes his hands away.  Doesn't affect the play.

3:20, nice pancake.

4:05, gives too much ground to the Edge, and he swipes at the QB, but Milroe escapes.  Milroe should not be there, but Latham lets that Edge come way in before he engages him with a block at all.

4:30, Latham literally throws Simon away and to the ground.  Simon was getting around him a little, but it didn't matter, Latham has enough strength to make him completely ineffective.  Great rep.

8:17, we're getting to where I see what might be some of the conditioning issues, and it may explain a lot of the blocks where I can't decide if it's the scheme, or Latham.  Here, Latham blocks his guys successfully.  For two seconds.  Then he kinda just disengages and stops.  His QB has scrambled out to the right side, and is there for that same Edge to take the head off of, and it's not like the Edge beats him; he just drops his hands and watches the guy go after the QB.  A little extra push or something could have bought Milroe a little more time on the scramble, even though he's out of the tackle box at that point, and there's only so much Latham can do.  I've noticed something similar in other plays I haven't outlined, but it really feels like Latham is doing the bare minimum.  It's not a loss, and I'm thinking some of these prior ones I've pointed out, and others I haven't aren't really losses, they're just lack of effort past a certain point.

8:45, DL overpowers Latham and walks him back past the QB and takes a swipe at him.

9:00, Latham makes a mistake of some kind engaging (can't tell), but shows great recovery staying on the block, getting a better latch, and keeping his guy where he is.  Good rep.

10:30, another effort issue.  Latham blocks out the DL, but stops, and that DL wallops the running back, who was still behind them.

11:00, not much happens here, but I see better recovery speed from Latham than you usually do.  Covers a lot of ground quickly.

11:10, gets beat around the edge, but gets away with a hold.

13:02, pulls to second level, unable to lock up with Ford again.

There we go.  If I can find time later, I'll dig up Fautanu against Texas for the sake of comparison, but yeah, this lines up with what I thought I remembered.  Quite a few missed blocks, and what may be a lack of effort or a lack of being in shape.  Either way, not what you want to see out of someone you're gonna take 7th overall imo.

To be honest, most of this is a couple of missed low blocks early in the game, which I'm not sure why you would want him to do, and not properly understanding how tough is asking an OT to maintain his block when his quarterback bails out of the pocket.

If this is a bad game, then I'd say you have every reason to feel good about him, to be honest.

Edited April 8 by Andrei01

[KingTitan]

15 minutes ago, Andrei01 said:

To be honest, most of this is a couple of missed low blocks early in the game, which I'm not sure why you would want him to do, and not properly understanding how tough is asking an OT to maintain his block when his quarterback bails out of the pocket.

If this is a bad game, then I'd say you have every reason to feel good about him, to be honest.

Admittedly, maybe I don't know how to grade OL play. But eyeballing it, if we got type of OL play last year, I'd feel good. Didn't get pushed into the QB. Stonewalled his guy, in my opinion, just about every rep. Bad pass off on a stunt and some lunging on 2 run plays by my view. 

[Daniel]

I'll rephrase "bad game" to "bad game for a tackle we're considering 7th overall."  I would agree it's not a bad game overall.

I agree not every one of those was Latham's fault.  And a lot are probably scheme issues.  I have him graded as a first rounder.  I'm not saying he's a crappy player.  I'm saying he's pretty clearly inferior to other tackles we'd have the option to pick, in my opinion, and I highlighted every single play I thought could be viewed as a negative.

But all three missed blocks on Ford are his fault.  He completely miffed two of the second level blocks he was asked to make, and there weren't that many.  He got beaten on the Edge, straight up, twice, on the inside once, and beaten by power once.  That's if you assume 100 percent of the maybe schemed that way plays are not his fault.  Milroe's issues too.  And that's not getting into his tendency to give up on blocks in this game, or the fact that he's clearly got conditioning issues imo if he's not doing any athletic testing.

And part of being an elite prospect is being able to make up for the mistakes of players around you.  In previous breakdowns of Alt and Fashanu that I've posted (iirc) there's good tape of them doing that.

We trade down to the teens and get Latham, I'll be pretty happy.  We take him over at three guys that I think are out and out better than him at the same position, I won't be.

[-Hope-]

Latham over alt or fashanu would be pretty frustrating. fuaga imo is on the same tier as him though. i’m not totally convinced he’s a tackle in the nfl.

[KingTitan]

16 minutes ago, Daniel said:

I'll rephrase "bad game" to "bad game for a tackle we're considering 7th overall."  I would agree it's not a bad game overall.

I agree not every one of those was Latham's fault.  And a lot are probably scheme issues.  I have him graded as a first rounder.  I'm not saying he's a crappy player.  I'm saying he's pretty clearly inferior to other tackles we'd have the option to pick, in my opinion, and I highlighted every single play I thought could be viewed as a negative.

But all three missed blocks on Ford are his fault.  He completely miffed two of the second level blocks he was asked to make, and there weren't that many.  He got beaten on the Edge, straight up, twice, on the inside once, and beaten by power once.  That's if you assume 100 percent of the maybe schemed that way plays are not his fault.  Milroe's issues too.  And that's not getting into his tendency to give up on blocks in this game, or the fact that he's clearly got conditioning issues imo if he's not doing any athletic testing.

And part of being an elite prospect is being able to make up for the mistakes of players around you.  In previous breakdowns of Alt and Fashanu that I've posted (iirc) there's good tape of them doing that.

We trade down to the teens and get Latham, I'll be pretty happy.  We take him over at three guys that I think are out and out better than him at the same position, I won't be.

I think Lathum should be a trade down option. But that's me. Not sure how they'd view it. I've seen an outlet or two that I respect list him as OT2. OT1B. 

I'd be ok with any of Fahanu,, Fuaga, Lathum without a trade down. But Alt is the only one I guess I'd take straight up at 7.