From "The Guy of the Guy"

[deeluxx3]

Derrick Henry could've been considered a luxury pick when we drafted him in the 2nd round because we just traded for DeMarco Murray

You don't wait for positions to open up before you draft their replacement (ie. Davis). You do it prior (Simmons for Casey), especially if you have a chance to draft a guy who can make an impact.

Our WRs are Brown, Davis, Hump and Raymond/Batson. What happens when one gets injured? We don't have a Sharpe anymore who can fill in for a few games and play multiple WR positions.

Not saying I think we should/shouldn't draft a WR early. But it certainly wouldn't be a stupid decision given our landscape at the position. (no depth and Davis on his way out)

[Airness McNairness]

4 hours ago, TitanLegend said:

If you want to open it up more this season you don't waste $10m on keeping Henry around(and don't go on and on about how the plan is a long term deal for Henry). You instead spend that money elsewhere and get a much cheaper(maybe even draft) RB. And while they were one year, relatively inexpensive deals you also probably don't bother bringing back both Firkser and Pruitt. With those moves it seems pretty clear they want to use 3 TEs a decent bit again.

If Davis walks after this year you replace him next year. You don't spend a top 3 round pick on a WR that is gonna be 4th on the depth chart when this team has bigger needs. Hell, even if we didn't have any pressing needs the logic behind drafting a #4 WR that high is just asinine.

Brown, Davis, Humphries, Smith, Firkser are all anywhere from very good to decent receiving options for the team. Raymond is a good enough #4. Draft some guy late or sign some street FA to be the 5th option/guy on the practice squad.

Hell we lost Humphries for a good chunk of late last season and the offense still put up really good numbers, so it's not like we're reliant on some top tier 4th option for the offense to go.

Edge

CB

DL

IOL Depth

Backup QB

Are all things that are bigger needs than WR.

you're not seeing the forest for the trees my man.. I perfectly fine with them going wr. we need a speed dynamic to this offense.. we didn't need CJ2K when we drafted him in 08 but his speed made this offense more dynamic.. if we bring in Denzel Mims for example and his 4.38 speed. what he could potentially do to this offense as a burner makes it easy for all the 4.5 guys we have. it opens up the routes humphries specializes in, makes all the underneath routes that more open for aj to get yards after the catch, and helps create mismatches for Jonnu..Raymond is NOT a good number four.. he is what he is.. a number 5.. tajae is what a good number four looks like.. stop looking at it by position and look at it by what the skillset brings to the offense. and then you're not even thinking about the potential if one of the top 3 guys gets hurt.. then what are we gonna put out there? Raymond or cam batson? give me a break dude.. 

[TitanRedd]

31 minutes ago, Airness McNairness said:

you're not seeing the forest for the trees my man.. I perfectly fine with them going wr. we need a speed dynamic to this offense.. we didn't need CJ2K when we drafted him in 08 but his speed made this offense more dynamic.. if we bring in Denzel Mims for example and his 4.38 speed. what he could potentially do to this offense as a burner makes it easy for all the 4.5 guys we have. it opens up the routes humphries specializes in, makes all the underneath routes that more open for aj to get yards after the catch, and helps create mismatches for Jonnu..Raymond is NOT a good number four.. he is what he is.. a number 5.. tajae is what a good number four looks like.. stop looking at it by position and look at it by what the skillset brings to the offense. and then you're not even thinking about the potential if one of the top 3 guys gets hurt.. then what are we gonna put out there? Raymond or cam batson? give me a break dude.. 

It’s bigger than what the skillset brings to the offense, again am I the only one that feels we have the talent on offense & our OC doesn’t know what to do with it, granted it was his 1st time calling plays but as I’ve said before, there’s not a lot of balls to go around in a run 1st offense. We have guys on our team who skillset we don’t take advantage of. There’s no way brown should’ve avg 5 targets a game, there’s no way we should struggle to get Jonnu involved. Don’t get me started how we wasted 10 mill on Lewis to only throw screens & checkdowns to him. I wouldn’t be mad if we went WR honestly if we had offensive guru calling plays. Speed kills & you draft the best player available not by need 

Edited April 16, 2020 by TitanRedd

[TitanLegend]

32 minutes ago, Airness McNairness said:

you're not seeing the forest for the trees my man.. I perfectly fine with them going wr. we need a speed dynamic to this offense.. we didn't need CJ2K when we drafted him in 08 but his speed made this offense more dynamic.. if we bring in Denzel Mims for example and his 4.38 speed. what he could potentially do to this offense as a burner makes it easy for all the 4.5 guys we have. it opens up the routes humphries specializes in, makes all the underneath routes that more open for aj to get yards after the catch, and helps create mismatches for Jonnu..Raymond is NOT a good number four.. he is what he is.. a number 5.. tajae is what a good number four looks like.. stop looking at it by position and look at it by what the skillset brings to the offense. and then you're not even thinking about the potential if one of the top 3 guys gets hurt.. then what are we gonna put out there? Raymond or cam batson? give me a break dude.. 

All this is said as if the offense had trouble moving the ball or scoring points without a guy who runs a 4.3 or 4.2 or whatever. We were the 2nd best scoring offense in football over the 2nd half of the season iirc and that was with Humphries missing like half of the games.

This is also said as if you need that kind of speed to be a deep threat. AJ Brown, for as "slow" as he is, had very similar deep ball numbers to Tyreek Hill(KC's most targeted deep threat and probably the fastest WR in football).

AJ's numbers on the left, Tyreek's on the right:

Targets: 16 - 19

Receptions: 8 - 10

Yards: 378 - 383

Deep %(Percentage of passes targeted 20 yards or more downfield): 19.0 - 21.8

Reception %: 50.0 - 52.6

We have a deep threat. He doesn't run a 4.3, but his deep ball efficiency is pretty much just as high as a guy who does run that(or better).

Would it be cool to have a guy who runs that fast(and is a good WR on top of it, just speed doesn't mean a whole lot obviously)? Sure.

Is that a luxury pick at a time when we have actual pressing needs at other positions that really need to be addressed first? Yes.

We have 5 at least reliable receiving options on the team.

We run an offense that features 2 and 3 TEs(combining these two) as often if not more often than 3 WRs.

We don't have a third corner.

We're not set at edge rusher.

Our defensive line depth is putrid and could probably use a 3rd starter to not have to rely on Crawford.

We're an injury on the IOL away from being hampered pretty heavily.

Our backup QB is currently a former 7th round pick who played his college ball at Toledo and has yet to take a single NFL snap, when our starter in Tannehill is a guy who has a relatively lengthy injury history.

Drafting the 4th WR on our depth chart with a high priority pick is dumb. And there's really no other way to look at it.

If they do something like sign Clowney and resign Logan Ryan, then maybe you could start looking at a WR with a priority pick. As it sits with the roster right now? Absolutely not.

[-Hope-]

8 minutes ago, TitanLegend said:

If they do something like sign Clowney and resign Logan Ryan, then maybe you could start looking at a WR with a priority pick. As it sits with the roster right now? Absolutely not.

i mean....did you miss the part of KT’s post where the guy said he’s predicting clowney being a titan? pretty sure this is the assumption we’re all working on. certainly things would change if that doesn’t come to fruition.

but i also want to echo @deeluxx3's point which is that you draft with an eye toward the future. corey davis is not gonna be a titan after this season- frankly i actually think he's a relatively likely candidate for an in-draft trade this year. arguably the two best players on our team, derrick henry and taylor lewan, were drafted when there was not an immediate need.

Edited April 16, 2020 by -Hope-

[TitanLegend]

4 minutes ago, -Hope- said:

i mean....did you miss the part of KT’s post where the guy said he’s predicting clowney being a titan? pretty sure this is the assumption we’re all working on. certainly things would change if that doesn’t come to fruition.

I did not.

I also did not miss where teams like the Browns(where reporters are known to have reliable sources) are super in on Clowney as well and that he's not a lock to go to any one place. If the team knows 100% for sure Clowney is coming here/it's a done deal just waiting on..whatever the hell it's waiting on, cool. But given other reports, I'm not so sure I'm buying that's the case.

If the team does not know 100% for sure that Clowney is going to be a Titan, edge rusher has to be looked at in the draft, and well before WR.

[VY]

24 minutes ago, -Hope- said:

i mean....did you miss the part of KT’s post where the guy said he’s predicting clowney being a titan? pretty sure this is the assumption we’re all working on. certainly things would change if that doesn’t come to fruition.

but i also want to echo @deeluxx3's point which is that you draft with an eye toward the future. corey davis is not gonna be a titan after this season- frankly i actually think he's a relatively likely candidate for an in-draft trade this year. arguably the two best players on our team, derrick henry and taylor lewan, were drafted when there was not an immediate need.

On top of all that, we are going in with a big question mark at TE production. Maybe Jonnu gets 65-70 catches, what’s more likely is he’s around 40. All the talent but until we see consistent production, I highly doubt a TE is in the top 2 on receptions in 2020. That’s been pretty much a standard in the Titans era, so we have room for a burner that likely is a 40-50 target max guy this year anyhow. 

[-Hope-]

1 hour ago, TitanLegend said:

I did not.

I also did not miss where teams like the Browns(where reporters are known to have reliable sources) are super in on Clowney as well and that he's not a lock to go to any one place. If the team knows 100% for sure Clowney is coming here/it's a done deal just waiting on..whatever the hell it's waiting on, cool. But given other reports, I'm not so sure I'm buying that's the case.

If the team does not know 100% for sure that Clowney is going to be a Titan, edge rusher has to be looked at in the draft, and well before WR.

just feels like you're arguing something that isn't being said at all. this entire discussion was premised on the scenario that the guy is describing being true. we all know that it's not a given, but we're speculating. you know, the thing that...we do here.

[Airness McNairness]

2 hours ago, TitanRedd said:

It’s bigger than what the skillset brings to the offense, again am I the only one that feels we have the talent on offense & our OC doesn’t know what to do with it, granted it was his 1st time calling plays but as I’ve said before, there’s not a lot of balls to go around in a run 1st offense. We have guys on our team who skillset we don’t take advantage of. There’s no way brown should’ve avg 5 targets a game, there’s no way we should struggle to get Jonnu involved. Don’t get me started how we wasted 10 mill on Lewis to only throw screens & checkdowns to him. I wouldn’t be mad if we went WR honestly if we had offensive guru calling plays. Speed kills & you draft the best player available not by need 

yeah I think you're the only one.. nobody is questioning Arthur smith.. the dude did a great job in his first year.. I have a hard time believing an OC who had one of the most prolific offenses in the NFL after a qb switch some how he"doesn't know how to call plays". he had the leagues highest rated passer, the leading rusher, and a rookie 1k yard receiver.. he ran the offense to the best of its abilities in my opinion 

[Airness McNairness]

1 hour ago, TitanLegend said:

All this is said as if the offense had trouble moving the ball or scoring points without a guy who runs a 4.3 or 4.2 or whatever. We were the 2nd best scoring offense in football over the 2nd half of the season iirc and that was with Humphries missing like half of the games.

This is also said as if you need that kind of speed to be a deep threat. AJ Brown, for as "slow" as he is, had very similar deep ball numbers to Tyreek Hill(KC's most targeted deep threat and probably the fastest WR in football).

AJ's numbers on the left, Tyreek's on the right:

Targets: 16 - 19

Receptions: 8 - 10

Yards: 378 - 383

Deep %(Percentage of passes targeted 20 yards or more downfield): 19.0 - 21.8

Reception %: 50.0 - 52.6

We have a deep threat. He doesn't run a 4.3, but his deep ball efficiency is pretty much just as high as a guy who does run that(or better).

Would it be cool to have a guy who runs that fast(and is a good WR on top of it, just speed doesn't mean a whole lot obviously)? Sure.

Is that a luxury pick at a time when we have actual pressing needs at other positions that really need to be addressed first? Yes.

We have 5 at least reliable receiving options on the team.

We run an offense that features 2 and 3 TEs(combining these two) as often if not more often than 3 WRs.

We don't have a third corner.

We're not set at edge rusher.

Our defensive line depth is putrid and could probably use a 3rd starter to not have to rely on Crawford.

We're an injury on the IOL away from being hampered pretty heavily.

Our backup QB is currently a former 7th round pick who played his college ball at Toledo and has yet to take a single NFL snap, when our starter in Tannehill is a guy who has a relatively lengthy injury history.

Drafting the 4th WR on our depth chart with a high priority pick is dumb. And there's really no other way to look at it.

If they do something like sign Clowney and resign Logan Ryan, then maybe you could start looking at a WR with a priority pick. As it sits with the roster right now? Absolutely not.

once again.. the year we drafted cj2k, we didn't "need" a running back and had holes at other spots on the roster..... I think drafting a difference maker instead of a need position worked out pretty well for us..

[KingTitan]

1 minute ago, Airness McNairness said:

once again.. the year we drafted cj2k, we didn't "need" a running back and had holes at other spots on the roster..... I think drafting a difference maker instead of a need position worked out pretty well for us..

This.

I was SOOOOOOO mad when we drafted Lewan and we still had David Stewart and Roos.

We see how that turned out. 

[ttitansfan4life]

2 minutes ago, KingTitan said:

This.

I was SOOOOOOO mad when we drafted Lewan and we still had David Stewart and Roos.

We see how that turned out. 

Same. It’s also why you don’t always draft for just need. Robinson has shown in the past that he’ll draft for the future and he did it just last season. Did we need Simmons last year? No but it was too good of a talent to pass up. Could one of those top receivers with legit speed fall to 29 and Robinson takes one? Definitely wouldn’t surprise me especially if the CB group has dried up and no one is worth the 29 pick.  I definitely wouldn’t take an OT at 29 either and I don’t expect Robinson will either. Maybe edge but maybe Robinson already has a deal in place with Clowney and just is waiting for the physical/after the April date(that is escaping me) to save the comp pick. So what else do we target? I see no issue with taking a WR at 29 especially when we all know Davis won’t be around after this season and Humphries is nothing more than a slot receiver. Don’t wait until there’s a hole on the roster to fill it.

[TitanRedd]

35 minutes ago, Airness McNairness said:

yeah I think you're the only one.. nobody is questioning Arthur smith.. the dude did a great job in his first year.. I have a hard time believing an OC who had one of the most prolific offenses in the NFL after a qb switch some how he"doesn't know how to call plays". he had the leagues highest rated passer, the leading rusher, and a rookie 1k yard receiver.. he ran the offense to the best of its abilities in my opinion 

Well I stand alone he did good I agree, especially in the run game; however his passing offense is a ?. Route concepts are basic he doesn’t seem to know how to scheme guys open. We’re very predictable 75% of RT passes are play action. I never seen art come in with a game plan to attack The opposing team weakness. Tell me before humphries got hurt, were we using him, how TB used him, tell me did we use Lewis anywhere near how NE used him, pretty much screens & checkdowns. Yes AJ had a 1000 yards receiving & avg 20 yards a catch, but the kid avg 5 targets a game. Jonnu showed flashes but again tell me how many targets he avg a game. It’s only so much you can do when you’re run 1st & use the run to open up the pass 

[Airness McNairness]

1 minute ago, TitanRedd said:

Well I stand alone he did good I agree, especially in the run game; however his passing offense is a ?. Route concepts are basic he doesn’t seem to know how to scheme guys open. We’re very predictable 75% of RT passes are play action. I never seen art come in with a game plan to attack The opposing team weakness. Tell me before humphries got hurt, were we using him, how TB used him, tell me did we use Lewis anywhere near how NE used him, pretty much screens & checkdowns. Yes AJ had a 1000 yards receiving & avg 20 yards a catch, but the kid avg 5 targets a game. Jonnu showed flashes but again tell me how many targets he avg a game. It’s only so much you can do when you’re run 1st & use the run to open up the pass 

this coming year will be big for everyone.. the league will have tape on all these guys under this system and will scheme to stop them. how Arthur adjust will tell a lot about him and his players

[TitanLegend]

35 minutes ago, Airness McNairness said:

once again.. the year we drafted cj2k, we didn't "need" a running back and had holes at other spots on the roster..... I think drafting a difference maker instead of a need position worked out pretty well for us..

The year we drafted CJ we were coming off a season where VY regressed in pretty much every single area as a QB, and while LenDale wasn't awful, he showed as the guy having to carry the load that he couldn't cut it, not by himself. His style just wasn't one that could carry an offense, and Fisher properly identified we needed someone who could(or at least help LenDale/the run game as a whole) on offense. It also perfectly fit Fisher's offense. Fisher was always about smash mouth, run first football. We also have learned he had no faith in VY, so drafting a receiver for VY(like most wanted) didn't make sense internally/

What is continually being ignored here is the offense we run. We don't put 4 WRs on the field at the same time(pretty much no team does). We put 3 WRs on the field the 3rd least amount of times of all teams last year at 30% of the time. 53% of the time we either had 2 or 3 TEs on the field.  Unless a drastic change is being made to the offense, we don't even put our trio of Brown/Davis/Humphries out there very much. What are we gonna do with a 4th WR?

33 minutes ago, KingTitan said:

This.

I was SOOOOOOO mad when we drafted Lewan and we still had David Stewart and Roos.

We see how that turned out. 

David Stewart was released before FA(or around when it started?) started the season we drafted Lewan as he had largely been a shell of his former self due to injuries. He retired afterwards/never played another down/didn't sign with anyone else.

Michael Oher was who they signed to play across from Roos, and the conversation around Roos at that time, even though he was still a decent player, was to start looking towards the future/to replace him.

Don't see the comparison at all here.