2021 Off-season FO / Coaching / Saleh to the Jets - Page 9

[J-ALL-DAY]

Just now, Forge said:

You either have faith in this offense or you don't when acquiring Stafford. 

If Stafford is a top 10-ish QB without ever being in this system, what is he in it? Baker went from unstartable and questions regarding whether or not he was an NFL starting QB to a pretty competent QB this year. Statistically, Jimmy was pretty much top 10 across the board (sometimes higher) in the system and I don't think that he's anywhere close to being a top 10 talent. Same can be said of Jared Goff at times (he's got more of an up and down statistical profile than Jimmy because of games played). Matt Ryan became an MVP and Aaron Rodgers got back to MVP level. 

I think Stafford could see a huge jump in this system. 

This isn't just a comparison between Stafford and Jimmy though. 

I have faith in Shanny but I also think there are elements of Stafford's game people love to overlook and make excuses for. He's led ONE top 10 offense in like 9 years. Sure he hasn't had the best defense or even a competent running game, but his weapons on the outside have always been good. He makes some terrible decisions and isn't a QB that is going to elevate a team.....Which is fine. And I never said I wouldn't want Stafford. Heck, I'm willing to give up our first rounder for him. 

But I'd prefer other options and even an unproven rookie over him. For contract reasons and for the hope that QB can become a CONSISTENT top 10 QB unlike Stafford. It's hard getting competent QB play so I'm not understating it by any means but some just have this pipedream of getting Stafford and then automatically being this unstoppable offense/team. Not sure about that. Would be great to finally have a vertical passing game but there's certain quick hitters that the offense heavily utilizes that may not work out as great with Stafford. People will post a clip of Stafford throwing a beautiful 50 yarder on a rope and start overrating him and thinking he would as good as Rodgers or any other top QB with another team....Yeah, I don't about all that. 

[Forge]

Just now, J-ALL-DAY said:

This isn't just a comparison between Stafford and Jimmy though. 

I have faith in Shanny but I also think there are elements of Stafford's game people love to overlook and make excuses for. He's led ONE top 10 offense in like 9 years. Sure he hasn't had the best defense or even a competent running game, but his weapons on the outside have always been good. He makes some terrible decisions and isn't a QB that is going to elevate a team.....Which is fine. And I never said I wouldn't want Stafford. Heck, I'm willing to give up our first rounder for him. 

But I'd prefer other options and even an unproven rookie over him. For contract reasons and for the hope that QB can become a CONSISTENT top 10 QB unlike Stafford. It's hard getting competent QB play so I'm not understating it by any means but some just have this pipedream of getting Stafford and then automatically being this unstoppable offense/team. Not sure about that. Would be great to finally have a vertical passing game but there's certain quick hitters that the offense heavily utilizes that may not work out as great with Stafford. People will post a clip of Stafford throwing a beautiful 50 yarder on a rope and start overrating him and thinking he would as good as Rodgers or any other top QB with another team....Yeah, I don't about all that. 

Everyone here prefers the rookie option over him...not sure that will be an option. Heck....I reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally would prefer Dak over him. Stafford to me is just the most likely acquisition I Think. 

I'd give up 12, but I wouldn't go any further than that unless its like a super nominal addition tbh (I wouldn't let like a 5th get in the way, for example). But I am super bullish on the offense if land him. I think top 3-4 in the league for sure. That's not so much about his talent being greater than I think he's shown...just about his talent being greater than Jimmy's and we saw what this offense was with Jimmy at it's height. I think it can be better than that. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

11 minutes ago, Forge said:

Everyone here prefers the rookie option over him...not sure that will be an option. Heck....I reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally would prefer Dak over him. Stafford to me is just the most likely acquisition I Think. 

I'd give up 12, but I wouldn't go any further than that unless its like a super nominal addition tbh (I wouldn't let like a 5th get in the way, for example). But I am super bullish on the offense if land him. I think top 3-4 in the league for sure. That's not so much about his talent being greater than I think he's shown...just about his talent being greater than Jimmy's and we saw what this offense was with Jimmy at it's height. I think it can be better than that. 

I think if he plays his best ball this can certainly be a top 5 offense but he's had some inconsistencies throughout his career and there's been a large enough sample size to prove that. This OL is also crap in pass protection and do we really expect that to change? Nope, it's going to continue being that way. But there will still be plenty of opportunities to take deep shots. I just worry about losing the quick hitting element of the passing game. That's big and something that overcomes the lack of pass protection. Stafford also isn't that type of QB that will be consistently making people miss in the pocket and extend plays.

He's a good QB and that's about it.......But a good QB is not all that easy to find and plenty of teams in the league would do anything to get their hands on one. 

I don't see why we can't at least take Lance in a trade up or potentially Fields if he falls out of the top 5, which he very well may. 

One thing I do like is that if we extend him, his cap hit is extremely low this season allowing us to re-sign some players we desperately need to bring back and potentially adding another top free agent, preferably an edge rusher. 

Back to Stafford. He doesn't really get much attention because he has played for the lowly Lions, but his reputation would be far different if he was in a bigger market or on a team that would be in the playoff hunt every single season. Like folks like to kill Cousins, but what is the difference there? All these average to above average QBs will be good enough when the circumstances are just that and then will make the fanbase want to move on once they realize they can't carry a team in suboptimal circumstances. 

[NcFinest9erFan]

 

Trying not to feel nervous at all...

[Forge]

1 hour ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

I don't see why we can't at least take Lance in a trade up or potentially Fields if he falls out of the top 5, which he very well may. 

 

We could. Will we? I honestly don't think so. I just have this weird feeling that Shanny doesn't want to be starting a rookie back there to be honest. 

[Forge]

24 minutes ago, NcFinest9erFan said:

 

Trying not to feel nervous at all...

It's the same thing that bugged him last year, the same thing that bugged him throughout the season. I wouldn't be too bullish on it not being a thing moving forward. 330 pounds is a lot to carry 

[Forge]

 

[J-ALL-DAY]

10 minutes ago, Forge said:

 

Doubt it, would guess he is pretty much done here. If Shanny has to pick between the two, he's going with CJ Beathard.

Mullens had his shot but did not deliver at all and Shanny was completely fed up with him towards the end. 

Glad he will be healthy and not have to miss the upcoming season though. 

[Forge]

1 minute ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Doubt it, would guess he is pretty much done here. If Shanny has to pick between the two, he's going with CJ Beathard.

Mullens had his shot but did not deliver at all and Shanny was completely fed up with him towards the end. 

Glad he will be healthy and not have to miss the upcoming season though. 

If he goes with CJ, I will just laugh. 

Unless its as a 3rd qb, then its just whatever 

[J-ALL-DAY]

Just now, Forge said:

If he goes with CJ, I will just laugh. 

He will definitely go CJB over Mullens, I'm confident in that. Doesn't mean CJB will be our #2, but just to bring in camp on a one year deal? Yeah, will be CJB and not Mullens. 

[Forge]

3 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

He will definitely go CJB over Mullens, I'm confident in that. Doesn't mean CJB will be our #2, but just to bring in camp on a one year deal? Yeah, will be CJB and not Mullens. 

I'm super excited to have the Jimmy / CJ / Rosen trifecta in the house next year lol.

[NcFinest9erFan]

2 minutes ago, Forge said:

I'm super excited to have the Jimmy / CJ / Rosen trifecta in the house next year lol.

With another project QB in the Third round too.

 

[Forge]

1 minute ago, NcFinest9erFan said:

With another project QB in the Third round too.

 

I actually really do think it'll be different this year. I think this is a team that is going to seriously try and move on from Jimmy, and I always expected one of the Qbs back because I think it's damn near impossible to just turn your entire QB room over. You need guys who know the system, and if you're moving on from Jimmy, that has to be one of hte two back ups (though hopefully as third stringers). If they don't move on from Jimmy, they just didn't feel that the cost was worth it. We could easily get out gunned in the trade market and draft market. Worst case scenario is that he gets hurt again (He gets hurt about every 8 starts or so right now), we play the back ups and end up with another wasted year. But if he stays healthy, we probably have a shot at the playoffs. 

[NcFinest9erFan]

1 minute ago, Forge said:

I actually really do think it'll be different this year. I think this is a team that is going to seriously try and move on from Jimmy, and I always expected one of the Qbs back because I think it's damn near impossible to just turn your entire QB room over. You need guys who know the system, and if you're moving on from Jimmy, that has to be one of hte two back ups (though hopefully as third stringers). If they don't move on from Jimmy, they just didn't feel that the cost was worth it. We could easily get out gunned in the trade market and draft market. Worst case scenario is that he gets hurt again (He gets hurt about every 8 starts or so right now), we play the back ups and end up with another wasted year. But if he stays healthy, we probably have a shot at the playoffs. 

Yeah... I'm trying to stay hopeful that we move on from Jimbo.

My hope is that Kyle has seen the light and that not only does he need someone who can run his system but also soeone who can take it up a notch....

[Forge]

5 minutes ago, NcFinest9erFan said:

Yeah... I'm trying to stay hopeful that we move on from Jimbo.

My hope is that Kyle has seen the light and that not only does he need someone who can run his system but also soeone who can take it up a notch....

I think its mostly about the cost. I'd love to get Stafford and have been big on that for a while...but I'm with J in that there is a limit to what I'm willing to give up and he's going to be in demand. High demand. 12 gives us the highest value off the bat (I don't think Dallas or Denver are likely to be true contenders in this right now), but I'm probably not giving more than that. So if a team like Indy offers #1 + #3 + Next year  #2, I'm not sure I am willing to beat that amount by adding like another third or something. 

Kyle isn't going to make a move just to make a move, and I can appreciate that. If we don't move off Jimmy, I don't think that this is a situation where he's being stubborn or wants what he wants...I think it just hit a limit that the team wasn't willing to go past. Kyle knows the score with Jimmy right now.