2020 GDT Week #15 Steelers @ Bengals

[Dcash4]

4 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

His production says otherwise. He had a bad night, I think his knee is a bigger issue than people realize.

Which statistical website would you like to be wrong on? I'll let you pick. 

When you talk about his production and you wanna have a conversation about "top 10" then you really need to consider replacement. Ben's role in the offense was to be efficient and get the ball out of his hands into playmakers -- a lot of the top guys can do that. Issue against Ben, is that a lot of them can also do far more. When it was working? Great. Probably wasn't a top 10 talent in the league then though either. But now that teams have caught up to the Steelers offensive plan -- there's no counter...because Ben isn't a top 10 talent. Production is not equal to Talent

Mahomes, Rodgers, Wilson, Watson, Murray, Cousins, Tannehill, Brady, Brees -- all guys who can play the efficiency game better than Ben. Even Derek Carr is highly efficient if you just want a 10th name for efficiency alone. If you want an 11th, Alex Smith's leg blew up and in the games he started and finished this year completed 70% of his passes. 

Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, just better overall talents a this point.  Burrow and Herbert are also flat better, but not experienced. Mayfield is having a heck of a season as a distributor (what Ben is now). All these names and I didnt mention Dak Prescott yet. 

That's 17 names in which you could say if you traded them for Ben, apples to apples, on the same offense they would be better than he has been. There's 9 guys ahead, simply based on efficiency, there's 3 guys who are flat out better talents (I'm including Dak here) and then there's 2 rookies whos talents would transcend this team as well as 3 others you could probably just make arguments for. 

Ben was good. His role was simplistic and a veteran doling it out and making the right calls. That's great. Doesn't make him top 10 talent. That sentence also doesn't mean he was bad. 

[MOSteelers56]

Yeah, I bought the resurgent Ben narrative at the beginning of the year too. The stats were great, but we were so one dimensional. Granted, we were good at it but it couldn’t last. Teams figured it out and Ben can’t do anything else. I started watching other games and seeing other QBs play and those thoughts about Ben dried up. I think @3rivers is right about Stafford, he’s the best choice. I’m a little intrigued by Darnold too. 

[August4th]

kind of baffling that it took 8-9 weeks for teams to figure out Ben and this offense. I could live with Ben playing this way with some changes here and there, but not at his price tag

ben is making more money than most of the QB's Dcash4 mentioned in his post up above

 

[Dcash4]

This thread is worth a look. Things it highlights is that teams are all over our scheme and Ben missed opportunity. 

Its why Tomlins mentions of no sweeping changes, only playing better scares the life out of me. Teams know what we do and are killing us for it. You need a zag to your zig. Fichtner/Ben don’t have the depth to be successful at the NFL level calling games. 

[warfelg]

What's so stupid about all of that is in the past (now he has someone just stand there) is his no huddle self called plays were so much more awesome than anything called in.

[3rivers]

47 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

This thread is worth a look. Things it highlights is that teams are all over our scheme and Ben missed opportunity. 

Its why Tomlins mentions of no sweeping changes, only playing better scares the life out of me. Teams know what we do and are killing us for it. You need a zag to your zig. Fichtner/Ben don’t have the depth to be successful at the NFL level calling games. 

if it's that predictable, teams  will feast on they offence that is offensive btw .   Can't/won't run and can't/won't pass deep. Thats a fail, but make sure the QB is taking up as much cap as possible, nice move. It was bens idea to have fichner and this offence, he runs the team. The team will sink as a result, and they only way that changes is if he gets hurt (for this season) or retires (next season).  It's in times like this the running game really helps too, but it's non existent. I they think they will run vs the colts like they did vs the bungles, it will be a wake up call.

I know it won't happen, but if they could (after the colts and browns loss):

fire fichner now

bench ben (won't happen unless hurt or claims to be hurt) 

try to run behind pouncey and DDC. If they can't deliver, then you know they have to be traded for next season. 

This team as it is shouldn't win a WC game unless the other team has the refs against them and the weather and injuries, that's it. 

bench

[3rivers]

2 minutes ago, warfelg said:

What's so stupid about all of that is in the past (now he has someone just stand there) is his no huddle self called plays were so much more awesome than anything called in.

ok, then fire fichner now, let ben call the plays. If ben fails , then he can be the interim OC with theatres at QB then, sounds fair.

[warfelg]

9 minutes ago, 3rivers said:

ok, then fire fichner now, let ben call the plays. If ben fails , then he can be the interim OC with theatres at QB then, sounds fair.

This is one of those days where that sounds like a good idea but trust me it’s not. There are so many things that an OC does that a QB has no time for. Additionally until about the and of the 3rd drive Fitchner was calling a good game. His QB couldn’t execute. And while Ben can develop some good play, he can’t execute them anymore. There’s a reason he has a guy just stand there. 

[SteelersFan2333]

I’m against any changes to the staff at this point of the season. I do however think we missed a golden chance to show Ben and Fichner that what is happening is unacceptable by benching Ben and taking playcalling away from our OC on a MNF game with everyone watching around the league. If we sit Dionte for a quarter due to dropped passes we should have benched Ben for the way he was playing. I’m sick of him coming out every week saying “this is on me” and suffering no repercussions. He’s right, it is on him. And our OC. If you continue to allow it to happen, then it’s on Tomlin. This is one of those rare times I wish Rooney would come out publicly and say it’s unacceptable and changes will be made if it continues. And then if it does make the changes! This is when you have to lay down the standards so you don’t lose the team, I have to think the D is pissed off and wondering why give the effort. I dont think we play any worse last night if Mason is in for a few drives compared to Ben, let’s see if this offense has any pride left in it. 

[turtle28]

All I’m going to say to you all wanting to run Ben out of town is be careful what you wish for, as a Washington fan first - Pitts my #2 as I was born a Pitt fan, parents are from south east Ohio but switched in kindergarten when all my friends were Redskins fans - just be careful what you wish for.

QBs like Ben only come around for teams usually once every few decades. Just look how long it was from Bradshaw to Ben. Favre to Rodgers just doesn’t happen, teams stupidly passed on Rodgers for 22 picks. 
 

Even if Ben isn’t what he was 3 plus years ago, he’s still able to get the job done as Peyton Manning was for a Super Bowl with the Broncos mainly bc of short accurate passing, run after the catch, a reliable running game and a dominant defense.

In Washington I’ve seen them trade away Stan Humphries who went to a Super Bowl with the Chargers. I’ve seen them not re-sign Trent Green after Jack Kent Cook died and Charley Casserly didn’t have a new owner yet to approve offering a higher salary or a franchise tag to Trent Green. I’ve seen them pass on drafting Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers. I’ve seen them win meaningless games in 2011 with Rex Grossman so they couldn’t draft Andrew Luck and I’ve seen them run Kirk Cousins out of town.

So, be careful what you wish for. The grass ain’t always greener on the other side.

Edited December 23, 2020 by turtle28

[turtle28]

5 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

This thread is worth a look. Things it highlights is that teams are all over our scheme and Ben missed opportunity. 

Its why Tomlins mentions of no sweeping changes, only playing better scares the life out of me. Teams know what we do and are killing us for it. You need a zag to your zig. Fichtner/Ben don’t have the depth to be successful at the NFL level calling games. 

[3rivers]

while we run down fichner, it's a laugh to hear people on shows run down arians.  We know about him, but he was another ben liked.   Oddly Haley was the best OC we have had in recent years despite many here not liking him. He also had an elite OL and OL coach to help, this current team is not near that level on the OL. 

Maybe losing out and in the playoff would be the best thing to happen moving forward. 

[3rivers]

3 hours ago, SteelersFan2333 said:

I’m against any changes to the staff at this point of the season. I do however think we missed a golden chance to show Ben and Fichner that what is happening is unacceptable by benching Ben and taking playcalling away from our OC on a MNF game with everyone watching around the league. If we sit Dionte for a quarter due to dropped passes we should have benched Ben for the way he was playing. I’m sick of him coming out every week saying “this is on me” and suffering no repercussions. He’s right, it is on him. And our OC. If you continue to allow it to happen, then it’s on Tomlin. This is one of those rare times I wish Rooney would come out publicly and say it’s unacceptable and changes will be made if it continues. And then if it does make the changes! This is when you have to lay down the standards so you don’t lose the team, I have to think the D is pissed off and wondering why give the effort. I dont think we play any worse last night if Mason is in for a few drives compared to Ben, let’s see if this offense has any pride left in it. 

agree, bench ben and tell fichner to prepare the gatorade and make sure there is enough ice in the cooler etc. 

Johnson though, should be benched.  At this level or even NCAA, catching the ball at WR isn't an option, it's a requirement. Who cares about your route running it you can't  catch.  Bench him, make a statement and put everyone on notice. 

Tonlin deserves blame, it's his team, unless GM is telling him to play people, never know with this organization, but I am getting tired of it.  JJSS  and DJ  could be on another team next year anyways. I just can't see what a team would offer for johnson, could they get a 5th for him?

[warfelg]

 

[Dcash4]

At some point, I see someone on defense snapping on this offense. Even minus Bush and Dupree, they are the better unit by a wide, wide margin. 

I would love to see TJ Watt come off the field and just scream at Roethlisberger and the offense to do something after they get another hold when the offense goes 3-0 early in the game.