beardown3231 Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, WindyCity said: I think the rumor was that teams were inquiring about Carr and the Raiders were directing the conversation to Mariota. I think he's referring to the draft when Mariota came out 45 minutes ago, abstract_thought said: Did anyone ever confirm that Pace was hot after Marcus Mariota? That's another data point if the rumors are true. I'm not sure about confirm, but yeah there were a lot of rumors building up to that draft that Pace was considering trading up to #2 This is from NBC Sports It wasn't long ago that Pace had quite the affinity for Mariota. He liked him so much as a draft prospect in 2015 that reports surfaced of his attempt to trade up with the Titans to select him. Unlike some talent evaluators, Pace wasn't concerned about the wide-open offense Mariota played in under former Bears offensive coordinator Mark Helfrich Edited February 14, 2021 by beardown3231 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted February 14, 2021 Author Share Posted February 14, 2021 From the Eagles forum: 97.5 is sticking with Natalie's report a week ago or so that the bears offer is still on the table they were saying I believe it was yesterday they were talking about it again. Bears first , Foles and Cohen for Wentz They also said eagles accepted the offer only to pull it last minute for some reason. Yet they believe it's still on the table even though the eagles did that. That's why the GM of the bears told Cohen he wasn't being traded because of the eagles backing out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 41 minutes ago, G08 said: From the Eagles forum: 97.5 is sticking with Natalie's report a week ago or so that the bears offer is still on the table they were saying I believe it was yesterday they were talking about it again. Bears first , Foles and Cohen for Wentz They also said eagles accepted the offer only to pull it last minute for some reason. Yet they believe it's still on the table even though the eagles did that. That's why the GM of the bears told Cohen he wasn't being traded because of the eagles backing out Interesting. Let's hope that's all true. The price is right, it makes Pace go after another young QB, and it forces Nagy to break his Cohen habit, cold turkey. Best news (if true) that we've had in a while! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 11 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said: I'm curious how you are working out a 6/126 deal and still keep his cap hit at 10M this year. Well, $11M. Misstated it before. Robinson contract: 6/126, $18M signing bonus, $49M guaranteed at signing, $9M additional guarantees by 3/20/2022. 2021: $8M base salary guaranteed, $3M signing bonus 2022: $10M base guaranteed, $3M roster bonus (guarantees 6/1/2021), $3M signing bonus 2023: $13M base guaranteed, $6M roster bonus (guarantees 3/20/2022), $3M signing bonus 2024: $16M base, $5M roster bonus (guarantees 3/20/2023), $3M signing bonus 2025: $19M base, $4M roster bonus, $3M signing bonus 2026: $24M base, $3M roster bonus Cap hits: 2021: $11M 2022: $16M 2023: $22M 2024: $24M (cut w/ $14M dead) 2025: $26M (cut w/ $6M dead) 2026: $27M (cut w/ $3M dead) Total Cash Received: 2021: $26M 2022: $39M 2023: $58M 2024: $79M 2025: $102M 2026: $126M Essentially, it’s a 3-year contract for $58M that’s fully guaranteed (well $49M at signing and the other $9M by 3/2022), with an affordable 4th year if play continues to justify it and the cap keeps going as projected (of which $5M guarantees once we get into year 3) and then probable renegotiation or cut years in 2025 and 2026. The way I set it up you could play with years 2-4 a little to his liking without dramatically changing anything overall or screwing with the 2021 cap hit. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 15 hours ago, malagabears said: AZ, please do a mock off season. It is fun. I did FFMD forever ago. It was awesome. Real life time restraints make that unlikely now. 🤷♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 15 hours ago, WindyCity said: Perhaps you would like to give a summary of your key point for myself who is struggling? FIFY. And I would be happy to give you a summary so you could understand it except I have no desire to read another one of your off the wall replies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 8 hours ago, AZBearsFan said: Well, $11M. Misstated it before. That would be a very team friendly deal. Especially if he agreed to spread out the signing bonus after watching Cooper get paid his 10M in his first 2 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 1 hour ago, JAF-N72EX said: That would be a very team friendly deal. Especially if he agreed to spread out the signing bonus after watching Cooper get paid his 10M in his first 2 years. Robinson gets all $18M of the signing bonus in his pocket on day 1, but the NFL cap rules allow that it can be applied against the cap in equal portions over each of the years of the deal. Most big NFL contracts are set up this way. When teams convert portions of a highly paid player’s salary into signing bonuses for cap relief when they restructure deals this is exactly how that is achieved in most cases. Cooper’s contract is actually set up pretty uniquely in how it’s structured in that the Cowboys chose to accrue the signing bonus in its entirety early on in the deal rather than over the duration. That’s pretty uncommon. He received the full signing bonus day 1 though. It’s called a signing bonus because it’s paid out the day you sign. I would argue that Robinson getting the first 3 years of the proposed deal fully guaranteed makes my proposal an incredibly player friendly deal by NFL standards, especially for a non-quarterback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 4 hours ago, AZBearsFan said: Robinson gets all $18M of the signing bonus in his pocket on day 1, but the NFL cap rules allow that it can be applied against the cap in equal portions over each of the years of the deal. Yes, it can be applied across the extent of the contract (that's never changed in the new CBA and Thomas did this on his 5/100 contract). But you are asking Robinson to spread out his 20M signing bonus for 6 years after seeing Cooper get 10 in the first 2 years, AND take less upfront in the first year (3M), AND also putting 30M into a roster bonus which is not fully guaranteed money (in your example above). That's asking a lot IMO. I understand that he gets that money the minute he signs the contract and the prorated amount is only counted against the effective salary, and not him, for the remainder of the contract. But that is doing ALOT to help the team and does nothing else for himself so why would he do that unless he REALLY wants to be here? Why would he sign a NEW team-friendly contract to help a team that has already rejected his EXTENTION offer months ago and has ignored him since? He's working on his 3rd and most likely the last big contract f his career at that. You would have to sweeten that deal by fully guaranteeing a lot more than that IMO. Which brings up something else I happen to overlook before while glossing over your post. Unless I'm missing something (or something you left out/mistyped or whatever). You added guaranteed money but didn't specify which part is fully GTD. Based on this structure, Robinson would only get 18M in fully guaranteed money from the signing bonus and that's it . Not the 49M + 9M optional you said he would be getting. Which I guarantee with absolutely positive confidence is not ever going to happen. Unless the roster bonus included is fully GTD as well? Which it can be, but it isn't based on your above structure. Because what you are saying is that he can only earn that money IF he is on the roster for those days listed above. So if he cut/traded before those days then he doesn't get that money, and that wouldn't be considered "fully GTD money". Instead, it would be considered "guaranteed w/ incentives". What you have setup is an injury insurance-based guaranteed contract. Not fully based contract. Now, if that's the case and you meant for the roster bonus to be included into fully GTD money, PLUS the signing bonus, then that's 48M he gets regardless if he gets cut or released and completely changes your estimated figures listed above. (your 49M fully GTD money + an optional 9M IF he is on the roster past 6/2/22). 18M signing bonus + 30M roster bonus = 48M + 9M in incentives IF he is on the roster on 6/2/2022. 5 hours ago, AZBearsFan said: I would argue that Robinson getting the first 3 years of the proposed deal fully guaranteed makes my proposal an incredibly player friendly deal by NFL standards, especially for a non-quarterback. What you have constructed is not fully guaranteed though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 On 2/13/2021 at 1:20 PM, Heinz D. said: Still...if I were in Pace's shoes, there were enough bad aspects to Mitch's game that first year that I would have turned around and drafted a late round developmental guy the following year. And maybe the year after that, and so on... So you weren't one of those who kept defending him? This is just another example of...."I knew all along that Mitch was bad". GTFO lol. This cracks me up every time . Especially when these people vouched for him and give him excuses when he was signed AND even after his rookie year. But hey, it's easy to criticize in hindsight. Especially in hopes that no one catches you on your BS. Reading these threads are hilarious to read now. Everyone was defending Mitch and saying he was the guy and that Pace was a good GM. But yet here are..... These same people must've forgot all of that because now it makes them all look like fools. I'm gonna continue to call all of you out on your bull****. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 1 hour ago, JAF-N72EX said: Yes, it can be applied across the extent of the contract (that's never changed in the new CBA and Thomas did this on his 5/100 contract). But you are asking Robinson to spread out his 20M signing bonus for 6 years after seeing Cooper get 10 in the first 2 years, AND take less upfront in the first year (3M), AND also putting 30M into a roster bonus which is not fully guaranteed money (in your example above). That's asking a lot IMO. I understand that he gets that money the minute he signs the contract and the prorated amount is only counted against the effective salary, and not him, for the remainder of the contract. But that is doing ALOT to help the team and does nothing else for himself so why would he do that unless he REALLY wants to be here? Why would he sign a NEW team-friendly contract to help a team that has already rejected his EXTENTION offer months ago and has ignored him since? He's working on his 3rd and most likely the last big contract f his career at that. You would have to sweeten that deal by fully guaranteeing a lot more than that IMO. Which brings up something else I happen to overlook before while glossing over your post. Unless I'm missing something (or something you left out/mistyped or whatever). You added guaranteed money but didn't specify which part is fully GTD. Based on this structure, Robinson would only get 18M in fully guaranteed money from the signing bonus and that's it . Not the 49M + 9M optional you said he would be getting. Which I guarantee with absolutely positive confidence is not ever going to happen. Unless the roster bonus included is fully GTD as well? Which it can be, but it isn't based on your above structure. Because what you are saying is that he can only earn that money IF he is on the roster for those days listed above. So if he cut/traded before those days then he doesn't get that money, and that wouldn't be considered "fully GTD money". Instead, it would be considered "guaranteed w/ incentives". What you have setup is an injury insurance-based guaranteed contract. Not fully based contract. Now, if that's the case and you meant for the roster bonus to be included into fully GTD money, PLUS the signing bonus, then that's 48M he gets regardless if he gets cut or released and completely changes your estimated figures listed above. (your 49M fully GTD money + an optional 9M IF he is on the roster past 6/2/22). 18M signing bonus + 30M roster bonus = 48M + 9M in incentives IF he is on the roster on 6/2/2022. What you have constructed is not fully guaranteed though. The base salaries in 2021-2023 ($8M, $10M and $13M) are fully guaranteed at signing. I didn’t write “at signing” or “day 1” because I thought the implication was straightforward. Apologies if that was confusing. The signing bonus $18M is obviously guaranteed at signing. 8+10+13+18 =49. $3M more guarantees kick in 6/1/2021, or before the 2021 TC even starts, and $6M more on 3/20/2022. So go ahead and guarantee those the day he signs if you’d like - their guarantee is a foregone conclusion anyway since short of him dying or losing a limb he’s obviously going to be on the team then. So $49M in day 1 guarantees and $58M in practical guarantees, plus $5M more in likely guarantees triggered for 2024 if he’s on the roster a week into the 2023 offseason. We’d take on $31M in dead cap in my proposed deal to cut him after year 2 before the 2024 $5M guarantee kicks in, so he’s clearly getting that too short of a career ending tragedy. So $49M guaranteed at signing, and $63M in total guarantees. By comparison, the massive contract Michael Thomas signed last offseason had $35.6M guaranteed at signing, and $60.6M in total guarantees. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-orleans-saints/michael-thomas-18996/ 1 hour ago, JAF-N72EX said: But you are asking Robinson to spread out his 20M signing bonus for 6 years after seeing Cooper get 10 in the first 2 years, AND take less upfront in the first year (3M), AND also putting 30M into a roster bonus which is not fully guaranteed money (in your example above). That's asking a lot IMO. I understand that he gets that money the minute he signs the contract and the prorated amount is only counted against the effective salary, and not him, for the remainder of the contract. But that is doing ALOT to help the team and does nothing else for himself so why would he do that unless he REALLY wants to be here? I don’t get why you’re hung up on how the signing bonus is applied for the cap purposes from Robinson’s perspective. It’s entirely inconsequential to Robinson. The entire $18M is in his hands the day he signs. It’s not coming to him in $3M pieces annually every March. He gets a direct deposit on signing day for $18M. The spread out part of it for contract purposes is just accounting Tetris. Look at every other non-rookie deal big contract we have on the roster and most across the entire league and they have similar signing bonus cap deferments. For Robinson to not allow cap deferments for his signing bonus, with us or any other team, would only serve to weaken the ability of the team with whom he is signing to build a competitive roster, especially with this year’s (anticipated) unusually lower cap where half the league will struggle to be compliant at all. That’s just dumb. Robinson wants to win. Hell he tweeted about it right after the Super Bowl. Why in the world would he make that harder by being stubborn with something that has literally no impact on him? What about anything you’ve seen from Robinson the individual the past 3 years suggests he’d be so petty as to cut off his nose to spite his face like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 8 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said: FIFY. And I would be happy to give you a summary so you could understand it except I have no desire to read another one of your off the wall replies. Thanks for the summary. Keep swinging at ghosts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 35 minutes ago, WindyCity said: Bwahahaha, so make that an oft-injured, inexplicably declining, unlikable QB who ALSO DOESN'T WANT TO BE HERE I think some switch in my brain flipped and now I'm just following this team to watch the car crash turn into a pileup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted February 15, 2021 Author Share Posted February 15, 2021 Just now, RunningVaccs said: Bwahahaha, so make that an oft-injured, inexplicably declining, unlikable QB who ALSO DOESN'T WANT TO BE HERE I think some switch in my brain flipped and now I'm just following this team to watch the car crash turn into a pileup I know you're 100% right but I'm still stupid enough to think we can acquire him, fix him and be set at the position for the next 7-8 seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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