Browns fans: What do you think of this current regime?

[Iamcanadian]

35 minutes ago, DizzyDean said:

Regarding why I love the management structure, I love the trades that they have made, I love that they did not panic and overdraft a QB that they did not feel was worthy of the pick.  Regarding Hue, at the time he looked to be a great hire.  He had limited HC experience in Oakland and the team appeared to be trending upward, then he was unfairly fired.  He has tons of experience as a coordinator and always looked good as such.  It was a low risk/high reward hire, and honestly given our teams track record of the quick hook at the time, combined with 15 years of futility, he was probably the best candidate that we could get.  Better ones would have died laughing when they picked up the phone and it was the Browns.

I love your last line and sad, but it is very likely, completely true.

As for the Wentz trade, I would put it another way, they were totally incompetent drafters who couldn't recognize talent if it fell into their hands and that has to worry me, because having a lot of picks soon becomes meaningless, if you don't have the ability to spot real talent. It always has amazed me, how many flops happen to the bottom feeders, who have GM's incapable of assessing talent, they account for a large # of flops every year. I believe the average # of starters in the NFL, from any draft, is around 3, let's see how many starters we get from all the picks we have??? Even more important, let's see how many game changers we get???

As for Hue, he is in an impossible situation, most HC's need a certain degree of talent especially at QB to succeed in the NFL and I am not seeing it on the Browns??? But they have to fire somebody as a scapegoat and Hue will likely be the choice although Haslan has a quick trigger finger, so the FO may go as well. After all, he cannot fire the man really responsible for this mess, namely, himself???

[DizzyDean]

3 hours ago, Iamcanadian said:

I love your last line and sad, but it is very likely, completely true.

As for the Wentz trade, I would put it another way, they were totally incompetent drafters who couldn't recognize talent if it fell into their hands and that has to worry me, because having a lot of picks soon becomes meaningless, if you don't have the ability to spot real talent. It always has amazed me, how many flops happen to the bottom feeders, who have GM's incapable of assessing talent, they account for a large # of flops every year. I believe the average # of starters in the NFL, from any draft, is around 3, let's see how many starters we get from all the picks we have??? Even more important, let's see how many game changers we get???

As for Hue, he is in an impossible situation, most HC's need a certain degree of talent especially at QB to succeed in the NFL and I am not seeing it on the Browns??? But they have to fire somebody as a scapegoat and Hue will likely be the choice although Haslan has a quick trigger finger, so the FO may go as well. After all, he cannot fire the man really responsible for this mess, namely, himself???

Regarding Wentz, heinsight is always 20/20.  At the time of the draft he had good potential but tons of question marks as a prospect.

Also, you have to look at situation.  Had they taken him, the team surrounding him would have been even worse than what we have now (lookat all of the young talent that the trade led to that would not be here otherwise).  Proactively responding to the inevitable “but year this talent isn’t helping us win” counter.  They are young.  We will start seeing the fruits of the 2016 draft next year, and the fruits of the 2017 the year after, and they will be multiplied as they grow and gel together.  The approach we have taken is to load up our roster with very talented but very raw and very young talent.  Once we get the final few pieces and it starts to click, we should be very good for a very long time.  We are not being build for a one and done flash in the pam after renting some stars in the twilight of their careers.

In short, chances are had we taken Wentz, we would have ruined Wentz.  That would have been a completely wasted number 2 overall pick.

[Aztec Hammer]

There's talent on the roster. It's just in the infancy of their development. Ultimately it means little if we don't acquire the QB. That is the master plan and that alone will determine if this regime has done a good job. They've done fantastically well to accumulate high picks but as it stands, it's led to us passing on a few potentially major franchise QBs. Ironically of all the picks, the one that may land us the quarterback will probably have been earned by (de)merit and not by the wheeling and dealing of the FO. But it's all a part of the process I suppose.

If we land Darnold (or whoever the top QB is) and he becomes the franchise, it will have all been worth it. Until then... the strategy means little. It's still 1 win in 20+ games and no QB.

[BrownLeader]

8 hours ago, Iamcanadian said:

In any decent team, the GM calls all he shots, yes, he may or may not let his HC have some input, but except for BB, that is all they have unless they have coached the team for many, many years and gained the trust of their GM. To say that they let a newly hired HC made all the calls, just would indicate total incompetence on their part and I doubt it happened that way, but then again, in this organization, anything is possible.

As for Hue talking up his players when he was first hired, you will find every newly hired HC saying exactly the same thing about their players. 1) early in the off season, HC's are expected to help sell tickets, 2) Of course, he is also trying to gain trust with his players by saying nice things about them 3) He in no way wants to criticize his GM who brought in the current roster, not good for a working relationship with your boss who can fire you? Etc. etc.

A new HC is going to evaluate each position, especially where he has expertise, same as the GM. There's obviously communication between the two. The GM needs to know exactly what type of schemes the coach uses and what kind of players he needs to run those schemes. They're definitely going to have conversations about particular position groups readiness and where the team needs improvement.

Sure, the GM may have the final say but it's doubtful to me that a 1st year GM, sans any experience at player evaluation, is going to just disregard or reduce at all, the evaluation of a big name veteran offensive coach. More likely, he's going to lean a little on that coach's assessment of the roster.

Coachspeak is a given. I'm still figuring that privately Hue may have given high evaluations on these particular skill guys. We sort of already know that Griffin was his call. Crow and Duke were probably miss-evaluated by the FO as well but Hue's take on them was probably highly respected.

[brownie man]

Crowell I think people forget was an UDFA

hes got talent and had issues in the past but also have a lot of players drafted. 

Crowell isn’t a complete back we will be getting that player in the upcoming draft. 

Hue got the TE he wanted, the WR he wanted, the QB he wanted, and the DE everyone wanted. 

Give them some time to fill out the roster 

[Aztec Hammer]

13 minutes ago, brownie man said:

Crowell I think people forget was an UDFA

hes got talent and had issues in the past but also have a lot of players drafted. 

Crowell isn’t a complete back we will be getting that player in the upcoming draft. 

Hue got the TE he wanted, the WR he wanted, the QB he wanted, and the DE everyone wanted. 

Give them some time to fill out the roster 

I doubt Kizer was truly the QB he wanted. He may (or may not, have read a lot of rumours) have been the best value QB he wanted but it seems fairly obvious to me Kizer was taken more as a project/flier than as the expected franchise QB. They didn't trade up for him in the second and were happy to risk him falling to 52nd pick.

I've had a hunch for a while that Hue has had this upcoming draft in mind for some time. He knows his California QBs and has major connections to the area and the college game there.

[Dogbite]

It is completely unfair to judge this regime on the success of Carson Wentz and DeShaun Watson. You all know full well that both of the QBs would be doing far far worse here in Cleveland. Philadelphia despite what many idiots were saying had a really good roster outside of WR and QB when they went for Wentz and obviously Houston is far superior to Cleveland in terms of talent as well.

[Aztec Hammer]

3 minutes ago, Dogbite said:

It is completely unfair to judge this regime on the success of Carson Wentz and DeShaun Watson. You all know full well that both of the QBs would be doing far far worse here in Cleveland. Philadelphia despite what many idiots were saying had a really good roster outside of WR and QB when they went for Wentz and obviously Houston is far superior to Cleveland in terms of talent as well.

I agree in some respects, but at some point, the facts becomes blatantly apparent. A couple of QBs we passed on are doing exceptionally well and are key factors in the success and even championship aspirations of their teams, whilst the Browns have won 1 game in two years and have the worst QB situation in the league.

I understand the need to build the roster up, put a QB in a good position etc. But it's hard to deny the cold hard facts.

That's why I'm understanding enough to give the plan more time, but really this upcoming offseason is last chance saloon for me. Get the best QB.

[DizzyDean]

2 hours ago, Aztec Hammer said:

I agree in some respects, but at some point, the facts becomes blatantly apparent. A couple of QBs we passed on are doing exceptionally well and are key factors in the success and even championship aspirations of their teams, whilst the Browns have won 1 game in two years and have the worst QB situation in the league.

I understand the need to build the roster up, put a QB in a good position etc. But it's hard to deny the cold hard facts.

That's why I'm understanding enough to give the plan more time, but really this upcoming offseason is last chance saloon for me. Get the best QB.

The thing is, if the Browns draft Wentz, the roster is no where near worthy of anything, chances are Wentz literally busts just as hard as Manziel (only for different reasons), and is out of the league in a few years or a career long backup moving from team to team.  The trade was the right move no matter how you look at it because Wentz, regardless of how he is playing right now, was no where near a generational type of prospect worthy of the #2 overall pick in the draft in the Browns situation.

[Aztec Hammer]

1 hour ago, DizzyDean said:

The thing is, if the Browns draft Wentz, the roster is no where near worthy of anything, chances are Wentz literally busts just as hard as Manziel (only for different reasons), and is out of the league in a few years or a career long backup moving from team to team.  The trade was the right move no matter how you look at it because Wentz, regardless of how he is playing right now, was no where near a generational type of prospect worthy of the #2 overall pick in the draft in the Browns situation.

I don't believe Wentz busts just because we draft him. He's develop slower of course as they build talent around him, but he's a fundamentally good QB.

Most QBs that bust would have done so whether they were on the Pats or the Browns.

I'm fine with the trade downs. I'd be a hypocrite if I wasn't because I advocated for them both years. Hopefully this offseason is the payoff and we get the QB.

[DawgX]

I still have faith in this regime. We all knew (or at least I thought we all knew) that it would take a few years to start seeing positive results. We're not even half way through year two and there's plenty of people calling for the FO's and coaching staff's heads. Yet, these are probably the same people who complain that we lack continuity. I was hoping we'd be better this season than what we've seen so far, but I haven't lost faith yet. We still have a ton of cap space and draft capital to use. We have some talent, but that talent is incredibly young and inexperienced. We lack a QB and receivers, so it's hard to do anything offensively. Defensively we've looked very good at times, although we're still very inconsistent on that side of the ball. Again, that's not surprising since we're so young and have had injuries to some of our best players (Garrett, Shelton, Collins, etc.)

As for Hue, I'm not ready to write him off. There's been some things he's done that I certainly haven't agreed with, but again, it's not like he has much to work with. He's not the one who throws stupid INTs or drops very catchable passes. I'm not saying I definitely want him back next year, but I think it'd probably be for the best for him to return. Then again, I'd like to see how the rest of the season plays out. We're going to be in a very good position this offseason to add several impact players via both the draft and free agency.

[Dogbite]

6 hours ago, Aztec Hammer said:

I agree in some respects, but at some point, the facts becomes blatantly apparent. A couple of QBs we passed on are doing exceptionally well and are key factors in the success and even championship aspirations of their teams, whilst the Browns have won 1 game in two years and have the worst QB situation in the league.

I understand the need to build the roster up, put a QB in a good position etc. But it's hard to deny the cold hard facts.

That's why I'm understanding enough to give the plan more time, but really this upcoming offseason is last chance saloon for me. Get the best QB.

Worst?

Josh McCown with youngsters Christian Hackenberg and Bryce Petty

Brian Hoyer. Did you catch that? Brian Hoyer with youngster C.J. Beathard

I don't much care for DeShone Kizer but even I would admit he has far more potential than any of those louzy names listed above. We have a bad QB room for sure but we don't have the worst QB situation in the league. You could even argue places like Arizona and Jacksonville are worse off because they have no young QB with any kind of upside. When Palmer is done they don't have anyone to groom like a Kizer.

[DizzyDean]

2 hours ago, Aztec Hammer said:

I don't believe Wentz busts just because we draft him. He's develop slower of course as they build talent around him, but he's a fundamentally good QB.

Most QBs that bust would have done so whether they were on the Pats or the Browns.

I'm fine with the trade downs. I'd be a hypocrite if I wasn't because I advocated for them both years. Hopefully this offseason is the payoff and we get the QB.

I could not disagree more.  There aren't many Troy Aikmans out there that can come into a dismal situation, get completely destroyed in every way, without having their minds and confidence, not to mention bodies wrecked.  He was the exception, not the rule.

[Reginaldm9]

You guys act like grabbing a QB first or building around him first is a chicken or the egg situation. It's not. You have to do both or you don't win. You have to simultaneously draft an amazing QB and also build around him immediately. It sucks but that's the truth. It all doesn't matter if you just pick good players all across the board. 

For example: 

Luck with the Colts

Rivers with the Chargers

Couch with the Browns

and then from the building the team first (insert QB later perspective)

The Texans every year (even this year). 

The Broncos with Siemian. 

The Jags and their crazy FA spending and Bortles. 

None of these teams win or have won a Superbowl because all of the cogs in the machine didn't fit together. 

[H2ThaIzzo]

2 hours ago, Reginaldm9 said:

You guys act like grabbing a QB first or building around him first is a chicken or the egg situation. It's not. You have to do both or you don't win. You have to simultaneously draft an amazing QB and also build around him immediately. It sucks but that's the truth. It all doesn't matter if you just pick good players all across the board. 

For example: 

Luck with the Colts

Rivers with the Chargers

Couch with the Browns

and then from the building the team first (insert QB later perspective)

The Texans every year (even this year). 

The Broncos with Siemian. 

The Jags and their crazy FA spending and Bortles. 

None of these teams win or have won a Superbowl because all of the cogs in the machine didn't fit together. 

The Colts are arguably the luckiest franchise ever when it comes to the timing of Manning's injury. It just happens to occur the year before one of the best QB prospects in the last 15 years will enter the draft. 

 

The Chargers were in an eerily similar situation as we are this year. The Chargers drafted Brees in round 2 in 2001, and at the time they drafted Rivers Brees had 29 td's to 31 interceptions for his career. They found themselves at the top of the draft board in 2004, and made their move. They also had some balls and drafted Eli after he said he wouldn't sign there, and flipped him into multiple players including Rivers and Merriman. 

 

You reference that the Texans, Jags, Broncos (who actually won a Super Bowl, and did so with a bad Peyton Manning as QB) have won a Super Bowl because of x,y and z. However, The Colts with Luck haven't won one either. The Chargers with Rivers haven't won one. 

 

Wentz, at least to most, was never an equal caliber prospect to Luck, Rivers, Roethlisberger, etc. Sure, looking today it seems like he possibly has the makings to be very good, but I'm not going to look back at the trade we made and say we shouldn't have done it.