taylor made Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 17 hours ago, lavar703 said: Mayhew is 20 friggin games under .500 as a GM. He sucks. Hurney might even be worse. Excusing these hires is ridiculous. Annnddd what was Kyle Smith's record when he was here? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 8 minutes ago, taylor made said: Annnddd what was Kyle Smith's record when he was here? We’ll never know because he was never the GM... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylor made Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, lavar703 said: We’ll never know because he was never the GM... Yea, I wouldn't want to answer the question either 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, taylor made said: Yea, I wouldn't want to answer the question either What question is there to answer? He was never the GM nor did he have the power to make big decisions. We have two guys who actually WERE GMs in the building now with both being under .500 and having been fired from that position. One of which was fired multiple times. So it’s not an apples to apples comparison. We absolutely know what we’re getting in Mayhew and Hurney because we have years of evidence with them in total control and for the most part it was a failure. We have the last two drafts which according to most sources were spearheaded by Smith and his crew and these two drafts produced quite a bit of young, affordable really good talent. So again, you wanting to compare resumes’ is quite silly when we’ll never know what Smith could’ve been here given full control but we do know what the other two have been with extensive/full control of other franchises. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted January 24, 2021 Author Share Posted January 24, 2021 (edited) On 1/23/2021 at 4:49 PM, lavar703 said: What question is there to answer? He was never the GM nor did he have the power to make big decisions. We have two guys who actually WERE GMs in the building now with both being under .500 and having been fired from that position. One of which was fired multiple times. So it’s not an apples to apples comparison. We absolutely know what we’re getting in Mayhew and Hurney because we have years of evidence with them in total control and for the most part it was a failure. We have the last two drafts which according to most sources were spearheaded by Smith and his crew and these two drafts produced quite a bit of young, affordable really good talent. So again, you wanting to compare resumes’ is quite silly when we’ll never know what Smith could’ve been here given full control but we do know what the other two have been with extensive/full control of other franchises. Kyle was part of the Washington front office since 2014, it’s a valid point. I used to have this point when I would defend a few of the things Brice Allen did but still hate the man. I guess you can compartmentalize if you want and give all draft credit for the drafts selections from 2014-2020 to Kyle bc he did a lot of scouting and building the draft board or at least had great input in it but, he didn’t make the final decisions, so in that vain how you don’t want to put the losses since 2014 on Kyle, you also don’t want to give Brice Allen credit for the good drafts? How cand that be seen as anything but hypocritical? If it was Kyle & for 3 years McLoughan doing the scouting and making the draft board along with Tim Grimble & then Brice Allen making the final decision on what we did then, the 2014, 2017, 2018 & 2019 drafts all are credited to Brice Allen in how some like you want to lay blame or credit in this scenario, not Kyle Smith. Edited January 25, 2021 by turtle28 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 4 hours ago, turtle28 said: Kyle was part of the Washington front office since 2014, it’s a valid point. I used to have this point when I would defend a few of the things Brice Allen did but still hate the man. I guess you can compartmentalize if you want and give all draft credit for the drafts selections from 2014-2010 to Kyle bc he did a lot of scouting and building the draft board or at least had great input in it but, he didn’t make the final decisions, so in that vain how you don’t want to put the losses since 2014 on Kyle, you also don’t want to give Brice Allen credit for the good drafts? How cand that be seen as anything but hypocritical? If it was Kyle & for 3 years McLoughan doing the scouting and making the drsft board along with Tim Grimble & then Brice Allen making the final decision on what we did then, the 2014, 2017, 2018 & 2019 drafts all are credited to Brice Allen in how some like you want to lay blame or credit in this scenario, not Kyle Smith. Huh? I gave him and his crew credit for the last two drafts because that’s who it’s largely attributed too. None of this has anything to do with Bruce Allen or Jay Gruden or whatever. Trying to compare someone who had a genuine GM title to a guy who had just been given authority to set the draft board two years ago is outrageous. Anybody trying to compare the two and wants to lay blame to Kyle Smith for the years he was a scout is being disingenuous 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted January 24, 2021 Author Share Posted January 24, 2021 1 hour ago, lavar703 said: Huh? I gave him and his crew credit for the last two drafts because that’s who it’s largely attributed too. None of this has anything to do with Bruce Allen or Jay Gruden or whatever. Trying to compare someone who had a genuine GM title to a guy who had just been given authority to set the draft board two years ago is outrageous. Anybody trying to compare the two and wants to lay blame to Kyle Smith for the years he was a scout is being disingenuous Who hired Kyle Smith in 2014? I mean at some point we have to come to grips with some things as Washington fans. Brice hired Kyle, Kyle did a good job. Bruce Also hired McCloughan but then something happened where that relationship soured maybe it was how awful the 2016 offseason that McCloughan was in charge of went or that Brice just wanted the power back. Also, Rivera is ridding this franchise of Brice Allen staff to change the culture. It sucks that Kyle Smith got wrapped up in that but I don’t personally know Kyle and his personality, if he’s anything like his father then he’s a pain in the a** to work with but since hope that’s not the case, I’ve never heard that before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naptownskinsfan Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 3 hours ago, turtle28 said: Who hired Kyle Smith in 2014? I mean at some point we have to come to grips with some things as Washington fans. Brice hired Kyle, Kyle did a good job. Bruce Also hired McCloughan but then something happened where that relationship soured maybe it was how awful the 2016 offseason that McCloughan was in charge of went or that Brice just wanted the power back. Also, Rivera is ridding this franchise of Brice Allen staff to change the culture. It sucks that Kyle Smith got wrapped up in that but I don’t personally know Kyle and his personality, if he’s anything like his father then he’s a pain in the a** to work with but since hope that’s not the case, I’ve never heard that before. The Orioles just went through and purged people who had been around for decades, and were unwilling or unable to adapt to the new organizational process. So I get that Rivera is doing that kind of housecleaning, but I don't understand why someone who had the most success in our organization in their role didn't even get an interview for the job. Doesn't matter who hired him or not. Someone with that kind of loyalty and track record deserves that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappy Mc Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 Since we are purging everything related to Bruce Allen, can we finally cut off the head of the snake and force Dan Snyder to sell... I don't think I have ever wanted incriminating evidence found for one person. Someone has to find the bodies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 1 hour ago, naptownskinsfan said: The Orioles just went through and purged people who had been around for decades, and were unwilling or unable to adapt to the new organizational process. So I get that Rivera is doing that kind of housecleaning, but I don't understand why someone who had the most success in our organization in their role didn't even get an interview for the job. Doesn't matter who hired him or not. Someone with that kind of loyalty and track record deserves that. I've had to do this when I came into an organization once. I kept the thoroughbreds. I got rid of the plodders (and plotters). I have a hard time believing Smith is anything other than the former. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted January 24, 2021 Author Share Posted January 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Thaiphoon said: I've had to do this when I came into an organization once. I kept the thoroughbreds. I got rid of the plodders (and plotters). I have a hard time believing Smith is anything other than the former. When Rivera said he needs people he can’t trust in the FO & more experience, that was tell. Maybe Kyle was the unnamed source for everyone for the last 7 years & Ron knew it or maybe Kyle has a direct line to Snyder & used and Ron didn’t like that. We’l probably never truly know why Ron didn’t keep and possibly doesn’t trust Kyle Smith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naptownskinsfan Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 1 minute ago, turtle28 said: When Rivera said he needs people he can’t trust in the FO & more experience, that was tell. Maybe Kyle was the unnamed source for everyone for the last 7 years & Ron knew it or maybe Kyle has a direct line to Snyder & used and Ron didn’t like that. We’l probably never truly know why Ron didn’t keep and possibly doesn’t trust Kyle Smith. The leaks have occurred years before Smith was ever a thought as a hire. We will find out the true reason, this franchise doesn’t disappoint in that one regard 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted January 24, 2021 Author Share Posted January 24, 2021 1 minute ago, naptownskinsfan said: The leaks have occurred years before Smith was ever a thought as a hire. We will find out the true reason, this franchise doesn’t disappoint in that one regard Very true, but they can have multiple leakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 1 hour ago, turtle28 said: When Rivera said he needs people he can’t trust in the FO & more experience, that was tell. Maybe Kyle was the unnamed source for everyone for the last 7 years & Ron knew it or maybe Kyle has a direct line to Snyder & used and Ron didn’t like that. We’l probably never truly know why Ron didn’t keep and possibly doesn’t trust Kyle Smith. Or it's just that Kyle clashed with him over talent and/or he just wanted people he had worked with before (sometimes it's no more complicated than this). I get that feeling as well. But in an organization like this, you can't have everyone thinking the same way. You need that "10th man" saying "No. this is the wrong way to go" so it can get people out of their rut and see the possibilities. In my example, that's exactly what I did. I knew that the guy who would eventually become my 2nd in command there was a holdover and was even loyal to the outgoing EPM and company. And we clashed a lot in private. But he also kept me on my toes on quite a bit of things pertaining to the client as well as new ways of doing things that I hadn't considered. I learned as much from him as he did from me (even though he didn't have the C-level skills I had). I don't think I would;ve been as successful at it if I had brought over more former 2nd in command at a previous stop (I ended up hooking up with him in a later stop). But in this instance, it would've been counterproductive to get rid of him simply to put the guys in that I could trust (who know how I work and want things done). Part of my job is to educate and elevate the people under me so that eventually they will be in my position at some point in their careers. I've never just gotten a bunch of sad sacks together to run a company. Not my style 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted January 25, 2021 Author Share Posted January 25, 2021 @Thaiphoon yes, but you trusted those people correct. Rivera mentioned lack of experience was hurting our front office in his opinion which probably was a reason why we couldn’t get better free agents - some thing Mayhew has a great track record with - and he mentioned Trust. Rivera did not like Brice Allen, and many in the league didn’t think Allen was trustworthy. For good or bad, Kyle Smith was one of Allen’s top lieutenants since 2014. Rivera didn’t like that & he probably didn’t like some fo the work or lack there of that was done last off-season to improve the team. If you can’t trust someone, you can’t work with them. It might just be that simple. I also don’t know enough about Rivera & Mayhew’s relationship to know if they always think a like or not. One thing is that Mayhew was pretty active in free agency in Detroit, Hurney wasn’t as much in Carolina, so there could be some good debates going on between the 3 in that area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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