Packers (Unofficially?) Promote Maurice Drayton to ST Coordinator

[R T]

12 minutes ago, Mazrimiv said:

I admire the absurdity of this take.

I admire your blindness to facts.  

[coachbuns]

1 hour ago, R T said:

I admire your blindness to facts.  

Do let me get this straight .. Bork who is one of the best punters in the league isn't worth it cuz the  coach cant find a better holder!? BRILLIANT. 

[R T]

6 minutes ago, coachbuns said:

Do let me get this straight .. Bork who is one of the best punters in the league isn't worth it cuz the  coach cant find a better holder!? BRILLIANT. 

Your reading comprehension is lacking. 

[Zycho32]

2 hours ago, R T said:

His job as a holder is probably greater than his job as a punter and he is borderline incompetent at it. With Scott as the holder there had not been a missed FG since 2019, they have missed 7 in the first half of the season this year and the ST's coach all but named him by name as for the reason for the failures. As a whole it is debatable if Bojorquez makes the ST's better. 

Alright, just unpacking this.

1. The seven misses I think are clustered into two specific games; against Cincinnati, which was something akin to utter dumb luck, and then against KC, in which the team was also breaking in a new Long Snapper. Against Seattle there was one shanked kick, but another made one and two made extra points, so the ship might be righting itself. Aside from a truly rotten day the battery looks to be at the level of serviceable, and as long as the holder can be considered serviceable, then his capacity as a Punter takes precedent.

2. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement of Drayton, as he almost throws a player under the bus, and that's the sort of thing you try to do to save your job. Even then, unless he was coming in like fire and brimstone at the press conference, the general gist should be "we've got some issues but we're working to fix them."
 

[R T]

9 minutes ago, Zycho32 said:

Alright, just unpacking this.

1. The seven misses I think are clustered into two specific games; against Cincinnati, which was something akin to utter dumb luck, and then against KC, in which the team was also breaking in a new Long Snapper. Against Seattle there was one shanked kick, but another made one and two made extra points, so the ship might be righting itself. Aside from a truly rotten day the battery looks to be at the level of serviceable, and as long as the holder can be considered serviceable, then his capacity as a Punter takes precedent.

2. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement of Drayton, as he almost throws a player under the bus, and that's the sort of thing you try to do to save your job. Even then, unless he was coming in like fire and brimstone at the press conference, the general gist should be "we've got some issues but we're working to fix them."
 

Right or wrong, Drayton's comments may well have been to throw water on the wrongful witch hunt that was being organized for Crosby.  

Thank you for the logical and sensible rebuttal. 

[coachbuns]

3 hours ago, R T said:

Your reading comprehension is lacking. 

Thinking not .. reread your post.

[R T]

1 minute ago, coachbuns said:

Thinking not .. reread your post.

Whatever. 

[mikemike778]

3 hours ago, Zycho32 said:

Alright, just unpacking this.

1. The seven misses I think are clustered into two specific games; against Cincinnati, which was something akin to utter dumb luck, and then against KC, in which the team was also breaking in a new Long Snapper. Against Seattle there was one shanked kick, but another made one and two made extra points, so the ship might be righting itself. Aside from a truly rotten day the battery looks to be at the level of serviceable, and as long as the holder can be considered serviceable, then his capacity as a Punter takes precedent.

2. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement of Drayton, as he almost throws a player under the bus, and that's the sort of thing you try to do to save your job. Even then, unless he was coming in like fire and brimstone at the press conference, the general gist should be "we've got some issues but we're working to fix them."
 

 

Is this a case of 37 year old Crosby can't handle change ?   The LS and P have been the same for a few years and the kicking game  has worked. You change them both close to the start of the season (P) and in-season (LS) and the whole thing goes wrong then you have to guess its related. Might not be a case of them being incompetent just slightly different and a set in his ways Crosby can't handle change. Which says more about him. But ...

The field goal unit is the most important part of ST.  With hindsight you probably shouldn't mess about with it too much.  

Really the backup QB would be an ideal holder as they have ball skills and give you much more threat of a fake which might slow down the rush. Theory is the P does it so you can send the three of them off to train by themselves. Agree you shouldn't have to sign a P based on holding skills but the whole thing is broken now. 

 

[Mazrimiv]

4 hours ago, R T said:

Your reading comprehension is lacking. 

No, it's your logic that is lacking.

[Zycho32]

7 hours ago, mikemike778 said:

 

Is this a case of 37 year old Crosby can't handle change ?   The LS and P have been the same for a few years and the kicking game  has worked. You change them both close to the start of the season (P) and in-season (LS) and the whole thing goes wrong then you have to guess its related. Might not be a case of them being incompetent just slightly different and a set in his ways Crosby can't handle change. Which says more about him. But ...

The field goal unit is the most important part of ST.  With hindsight you probably shouldn't mess about with it too much.  

Really the backup QB would be an ideal holder as they have ball skills and give you much more threat of a fake which might slow down the rush. Theory is the P does it so you can send the three of them off to train by themselves. Agree you shouldn't have to sign a P based on holding skills but the whole thing is broken now. 

 

To be fair, just about any kicker can be potentially sideswiped by a change in his battery mates. A lot of Justin Tucker's career was made upon having a consistent pair of sidekicks in Sam Koch and Morgan Cox. As for the Pack, Crosby seemed to be doing fine when Scott was replaced by Borj, then Cincy happened, then Wirtel replaced Bradley, and you get the picture. But really, Borj isn't all that experienced yet and Wirt only has three pro-level games under his belt. I think that's the general cause for the overall shakyness. That and terrible blocking.

Generally speaking, the backup QB had become the default holder around the 80's onwards, with a handful of exceptions to the rule. Convenience paired Kickers with Punters by the 2010's, and in general it paid dividends as the time spent practicing together helped iron out the kinks in the placekicking set-up. In fact, Kickers are typically efficient enough in this arrangement that looking for mobile and/or passing holders was considered an unnecessary luxury- especially if it took away reps in their primary position.

[coachbuns]

7 hours ago, Zycho32 said:

To be fair, just about any kicker can be potentially sideswiped by a change in his battery mates. A lot of Justin Tucker's career was made upon having a consistent pair of sidekicks in Sam Koch and Morgan Cox. As for the Pack, Crosby seemed to be doing fine when Scott was replaced by Borj, then Cincy happened, then Wirtel replaced Bradley, and you get the picture. But really, Borj isn't all that experienced yet and Wirt only has three pro-level games under his belt. I think that's the general cause for the overall shakyness. That and terrible blocking.

Generally speaking, the backup QB had become the default holder around the 80's onwards, with a handful of exceptions to the rule. Convenience paired Kickers with Punters by the 2010's, and in general it paid dividends as the time spent practicing together helped iron out the kinks in the placekicking set-up. In fact, Kickers are typically efficient enough in this arrangement that looking for mobile and/or passing holders was considered an unnecessary luxury- especially if it took away reps in their primary position.

So what was the cause of him missing a 30 yard field goal yesterday?  Everything looked pretty good ... doink.  Lots of excuses going around why he's missed more than he's made lately.  Maybe, just maybe he's fading like other older kickers?  4 million dollars a year for his services and Packer fans are holding their breath every time he kicks.  Got to do better

[Mr. Fussnputz]

1 hour ago, coachbuns said:

So what was the cause of him missing a 30 yard field goal yesterday?  Everything looked pretty good ... doink.  Lots of excuses going around why he's missed more than he's made lately.  Maybe, just maybe he's fading like other older kickers?  4 million dollars a year for his services and Packer fans are holding their breath every time he kicks.  Got to do better

Crosby has never been real consistent. He's actually been better late in his career. I wouldn't be unhappy if the Packers sought a better kicker for 2022.

2021 65.22

2020 100

2019 91.67

2018 81.08

2017 78.95

2016 86.67

2015 85.71

2014 81.82

2013 89.19

2012 63.64

2011 85.71

2010 78.57

2009 75

2008 79.41

2007 79.49

TOTAL 80.9

 

For comparison here is Harrison Butker of KC

2017 89.5

2018 90.5

2019 89.5

2020 92.6

2021 83.3

TOTAL 89.5

[vegas492]

I really want to place the kicking woes blame on the snapper and holder.  In the past, I've seen mistakes there that led to Crosby misses.

Yesterday?  Seemed like Mason was playing for a hook or slice all game long instead of just kicking the ball down the middle.

It's weird with him right now.

And it's sad.  We will get players back sooner or later.  And sooner or later, there will be a big game and we will need that FG unit on lockdown.  And I have zero faith that it will be.  It will cost us.

[Zycho32]

3 hours ago, coachbuns said:

So what was the cause of him missing a 30 yard field goal yesterday?  Everything looked pretty good ... doink.  Lots of excuses going around why he's missed more than he's made lately.  Maybe, just maybe he's fading like other older kickers?  4 million dollars a year for his services and Packer fans are holding their breath every time he kicks.  Got to do better

We weren't holding our breaths until Cincy. Shoot, we were probably hyperventilating after that ugly game in Detroit too. I picture Crosby's end of the problems being more like the meltdown he had in '12 where things just got to his head and it took an offseason to shake them off. You'd have to wonder where the placekicking would've been had the team made the knee-jerk reaction and cut him after that season.

By all means, feel free to bring in legit competition that could take the job from him if he truly is regressing due to age, I just wouldn't bet on it unless it was a real high profile pick(case in point, that Texas Tech guy who just booted a 62 yard game winner).

[Smidgeon]

1 hour ago, vegas492 said:

I really want to place the kicking woes blame on the snapper and holder.  In the past, I've seen mistakes there that led to Crosby misses.

Yesterday?  Seemed like Mason was playing for a hook or slice all game long instead of just kicking the ball down the middle.

It's weird with him right now.

And it's sad.  We will get players back sooner or later.  And sooner or later, there will be a big game and we will need that FG unit on lockdown.  And I have zero faith that it will be.  It will cost us.

Saw a post on reddit today (last night?) that attributed the miss to the angle of the ball placement.  Not the laces.  The angle.  It was allegedly off from Crosby's preferred (based on prior years' success) angle by about 20 degrees.

I don't know if this is true, but right now, I feel Crosby has more benefit of the doubt on the field goals than the long-snapper or holder, neither of whom were part of the main unit during training camp.