Roninho Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 2 hours ago, 101Raider said: Honestly I don’t get it at all. Watson’s a great QB, but we had no problem scoring points this year. How the hell does giving multiple 1st rounders fix our defense??? Forget the trade, don’t go after Allen and spend the money and draft picks on the defense. Yeah, well the chances that we fix our defense by two 1st rounders & free agency while Carr is still in his 'prime' is actually very low as well. We don't have an elite QB. That means that if we want to win it all it will need to come from a very special defense. For which we would need at least 3 special players. Players who typically don't end up on the FA market. Meaning we would have to hit on the draft 3 years in a row, which isn't going to happen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agarcia34 Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 One thing I don’t get against the argument against Watson is how are they gonna fix the defense. With or without Watson that defense is getting fixed through FA. The defense has tons of young guys already. You listen to Gruden talk it’s now about adding the young vets to help. So the whole how are they gonna fix the defense with giving up all that draft capital is a no issue: also have u seen the way this team spends first round picks. Might be best to not have those picks 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted February 4, 2021 Author Share Posted February 4, 2021 One reason I've kind of changed my tune a little bit and would be happy about a Watson trade is because he basically guarantees that we'll be able to compete against guys like Mahomes and Herbert for the next decade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted February 4, 2021 Author Share Posted February 4, 2021 5 minutes ago, agarcia34 said: So the whole how are they gonna fix the defense with giving up all that draft capital is a no issue: also have u seen the way this team spends first round picks. Might be best to not have those picks If the rumor is true and it's Carr + 3 1st round picks, I'd do it. Cause the way I look at it is we'd be trading away Carr, Ferrell, Abram, and Arnette for Watson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agarcia34 Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 Watson went 4-12 with a bad defense a train wreck of a coaching staff a terrible offensive line no running game. Trade away his best WR. WRs that were on his team always hurt. Train wreck of a front office and still put up his best season to date. Think about that. To be that great even when you’re surrounded by sh/t. Watson give you something that few few teams can say. And that’s when ever he’s on the field he is always the best player on the field. Watson doesn’t need everything around him to be perfect. I would do terrible things to see him in Vegas. Also he is one of the best players in the NFL for the community and all around great dude. And he’s younger than Carr and has not even peaked as far as his talent goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 2 hours ago, big_palooka said: 👏👏👏 Because you can still acquire talent without a couple draft picks. Those draft picks will never have the impact a 25 year old franchise QB will bring you. He's your QB for 10 years... you will have plenty of time to build a defense. Some of you are so desperate to "get to the playoffs" in 2021, you don't care about what the team will be past that. Let's go back to 2008. Let's say the Raiders decided to trade 3 firsts for 25 year old Aaron Rogers. What would have had more impact in the last 12 years, Aaron Rodgers or McFadden, Heyward-Bey, McClain lol. I'll ask the questions again..... WHAT player in this 2021 class available mid-first round can compare to a franchise QB? How about in 2022? See... the problem is, it's a crap shoot. You'd rather have "what's in the mystery box" vs. the sure thing. Seriously.... the way some of you overrate draft picks is hilarious. Been trying to fix the defense for 2 decades, but NOW all of a sudden it's going to happen with these next couple draft picks?? Finally going to get those couple defensive all-pros we've been after? Just hope baby! Anyway... I'm done with this conversation until there is actually something here to talk about. Bottom line... Watson increases your odds of getting to a Superbowl in his career. Carr will likely never get you there and likely retires in the next 5 years anyway. "Let's go back 10 years where we can discuss a hypothetical scenario that would have helped us, but obviously didn't happen." The draft isn't a mystery box. Your view of the draft is ridiculous. It isn't a mystery box, maybe a gamble, but it isn't a mystery box. Teams gamble and end up winning the SB. You talk about proven vets and completely ignore the fact that all of the veterans you are demanding we sign were once rookies who went after the first 5 picks. Watson was the 12th pick. Allen Robinson went in the second round. Stop talking about the draft like the picks are completely pointless. Aaron Rodgers went in the 20s. And again, you talk like Aaron Rodgers would've been the same QB if he went to the Raiders. You have no idea what the impact was of him playing behind Favre for years and then playing with the roster Green Bay had that eventually made them SB champions. We were a crap show. So all of this hypothetical garbage you're spewing just looks ridiculous. Lastly, you talk about picks not helping our defense and then fail to provide any insight as to how signing Watson will somehow improve our defense. You aren't making any type of impact statement, you're just spouting gibberish and being a pessimist. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted February 4, 2021 Author Share Posted February 4, 2021 (edited) I was chatting with my buddy about it and after thinking about it more I'd definitely make the move. We've had 5 1st round picks in the last two drafts and came away with one really good player in Jacobs, one player who has flashed in Ruggs, and three players who look like busts in Abram, Ferrell, and Arnette. I'd trade Carr and all 5 of those guys for Watson if we're being honest. Not to mention we've spent third round picks on players like Tanner Muse and Lynn Bowden. Plus traded away a 3/5 for AB and a 3/5 for Bryant neither of whom ever even played or made an impact for us. Not to mention in free agency • Trent Brown ($36.75M in 2 seasons here): Played in 15/32 games • Tyrell Williams ($22M in 2 seasons here): Was healthy in 5/32 games • LaMarcus Joyner ($19.5M in 2 seasons here): Has been one of the worst slot corners in the league • Carl Nassib ($7.75M in 1 season here): Hardly played when we had the worst pass rush in the NFL • Cory Littleton ($13.75M in 1 season here): IIRC set the record for most snaps by a LB without a sack, INT, FF, or FR on the worst defense in franchise history • Marcus Mariota ($9.1M in 1 season here): Played in 1 game As @big_palooka said cap space and draft picks are what bad franchises focus on. At one point last offseason the Chiefs had $267 dollars in cap space and kept all of their talent. I was listening to a podcast and they said the Rams will probably restructure both Donald and Ramsey and be top 10 this offseason in terms of cap space. Edited February 4, 2021 by NYRaider 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkelly02 Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 4 hours ago, big_palooka said: 👏👏👏 Because you can still acquire talent without a couple draft picks. Look how quickly you get to condescending D-Baggery emoji’s. Simply because I and a small minority disagree with giving a blank check for Watson. But then again that’s kinda your MO sometimes. Of course you can still acquire talent without first and second round picks but when your without them for the next 2-3 years your going to get less near instant starters. And that’s a long time to only have 3rd round and beyond picks. this team isn’t a better QB away from being a perennial playoff team. We have major holes across the team. If you give away too much for Watson you don’t have enough assets to fill out the roster. And the same FO that gave Nassib that horrible contract isn’t all of a sudden going to be building a team through FA with the absolute efficiency needed. No one is saying Keep Carr or Don’t trade for Watson. What some people are saying Is We need to cap what we give up. Houston’s got the problem, a QB who won’t play for them, so there’s no need to bail them out with a massive draft pick haul. We don’t NEED Watson, but if the right deal comes around we should try and make it happen. The whole Offseason doesn’t hang on this trade happening. It does for Houston though. If it doesn’t happen we would be happy to keep Carr and build up the defense through the draft and FA. but no matter what we do we need to do much better in the draft (especially round 1) and do much better in FA, hopefully landing a high quality starting Defensive FA or two and then some value FA signings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted February 4, 2021 Author Share Posted February 4, 2021 1 hour ago, agarcia34 said: Watson doesn’t need everything around him to be perfect. I would do terrible things to see him in Vegas. Also he is one of the best players in the NFL for the community and all around great dude. And he’s younger than Carr and has not even peaked as far as his talent goes. Not to mention he gives us a chance to compete in our division going forward because the Chiefs already have Mahomes and Herbert looks like he's going to be a star for the Chargers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkelly02 Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 6 minutes ago, NYRaider said: I was chatting with my buddy about it and after thinking about it more I'd definitely make the move. We've had 5 1st round picks in the last two drafts and came away with one really good player in Jacobs, one player who has flashed in Ruggs, and three players who look like busts in Abram, Ferrell, and Arnette. I'd trade Carr and all 5 of those guys for Watson if we're being honest. Not to mention we've spent third round picks on players like Tanner Muse and Lynn Bowden. Plus traded away a 3/5 for AB and a 3/5 for Bryant neither of whom ever even played or made an impact for us. Not to mention in free agency • Trent Brown ($36.75M in 2 seasons here): Played in 15/32 games • Tyrell Williams ($22M in 2 seasons here): Was healthy in 5/32 games • LaMarcus Joyner ($19.5M in 2 seasons here): Has been one of the worst slot corners in the league • Carl Nassib ($7.75M in 1 season here): Hardly played when we had the worst pass rush in the NFL • Cory Littleton ($13.75M in 1 season here): IIRC set the record for most snaps by a LB without a sack, INT, FF, or FR on the worst defense in franchise history • Marcus Mariota ($9.1M in 1 season here): Played in 1 game Yeah and when I was critical of Mayock you acted like I was crazy. Now it’s convenient to say we waste draft picks so use them to get Watson. no matter if this deal goes through or not we need to draft better and do better in FA or neither Carr nor Watson or anyone else will lead us to winning team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted February 4, 2021 Author Share Posted February 4, 2021 1 minute ago, jimkelly02 said: Yeah and when I was critical of Mayock you acted like I was crazy. Now it’s convenient to say we waste draft picks so use them to get Watson. no matter if this deal goes through or not we need to draft better and do better in FA or neither Carr nor Watson or anyone else will lead us to winning team. Everybody makes mistakes, everybody has those days. - Miley Cyrus I have no problem admitting I was wrong and you were right, god forbid I wanted to have some optimism and faith in the team and who we picked up. If being a Raiders fan has taught me anything it is how to have hope even in dire situations. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted February 4, 2021 Author Share Posted February 4, 2021 3 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said: no matter if this deal goes through or not we need to draft better and do better in FA or neither Carr nor Watson or anyone else will lead us to winning team. Agreed. Mullen/Crosby/Kwit are all like average. But it's sad to think that we really haven't added any Pro Bowl level or even good starting level talent defensively since we drafted Khalil Mack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkelly02 Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 The argument that the pro Watson camp isn’t making that they should be is that Carr’s stock is at a record high and if your not gonna extend him soon it’s time to move on. He’s not gonna take 25m APY again he’s gonna want 33-35M+. So even if we decide to extend him we really only have this year as a cheap year because next season we’ll have to push a bunch of his “Signing Bonus” into the last year of his deal in the form of a roster bonus. So the window for Carr is coming to an end. If you trade for Watson you’ve got a 5 years of a premier QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkelly02 Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 6 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Agreed. Mullen/Crosby/Kwit are all like average. But it's sad to think that we really haven't added any Pro Bowl level or even good starting level talent defensively since we drafted Khalil Mack. Your right I’m glad you’ve come around. not only that we could have taken some picks and traded them for better picks in future years, gotten a franchise QB, etc. Not to mention if we traded down a few times we’d have acquired a bunch of more picks. and I didn’t even discuss the insane amount of FA money we had and got next to nothing with. We had everything we needed to build a perennial playoff team but didn’t. but we’re really not that far away. We could make some good Moves and be there. but im An idiot and don’t know football because I said we need to play this smart and get a good deal, no open checkbook. All im Saying is we need to Come out of this with as much assets left to build A defense with snd keep the offense replenished with talent. And with those draft picks and salary cap room we have after the trade, if it happen, we need to be very efficient. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkelly02 Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 (edited) 21 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Everybody makes mistakes, everybody has those days. - Miley Cyrus I have no problem admitting I was wrong and you were right, god forbid I wanted to have some optimism and faith in the team and who we picked up. If being a Raiders fan has taught me anything it is how to have hope even in dire situations. I wasn’t attacking you... it’s pretty evident in my second message. I need a “you were right I was wrong”... nor do I want one. (please just never quote her again lmao) I was simply Trying to say im Glad you’ve come around to the same thought process as I’ve been on. im glad your optimistic. We need people like that to combat the negative people here. I just tend to be more removed emotionally. I can criticize Mayock but still like him. Heck I still like Ferrell as a DE. plus I thought we had a friendly bust each other’s balls thing going on. I mean your A NYer not a pansy Cali Guy, right? Edited February 4, 2021 by jimkelly02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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