Rumor: Raiders pursuing a 3 team deal to acquire Dehshaun Watson

[Bitty 2.0]

4 hours ago, oakdb36 said:

There's none and there will never be but that's not the question. The question is does Watson alone make the team better than it would be with Carr and the players you could draft with the picks you'd be giving up. It's a fair question to ask. I'd go with Watson because an elite QB is so hard to find.

There is so much more Watson's elite in Texas offense, Gruden runs his west coast system. Can Watson learn it within a reasonably time frame or ever? Does he have the patience to throw all the underneath passes? If things don't go right we'll he want to be traded again? Can he handle Vegas?

These are all reasonable questions that have to be answered before you trade for anything

[jimkelly02]

3 hours ago, Bitty 2.0 said:

There is so much more Watson's elite in Texas offense, Gruden runs his west coast system. Can Watson learn it within a reasonably time frame or ever? Does he have the patience to throw all the underneath passes? If things don't go right we'll he want to be traded again? Can he handle Vegas?

These are all reasonable questions that have to be answered before you trade for anything

I’m clearly not in the open check book for Watson camp and have been an avid Carr supporter for a while but Watson wanting a trade isn’t on him.  He’s justified for wanting out.  That organization is insane... they have a pastor they’ve promoted to defacto Pro Personnel Director / Asst GM and they’ve mage horrible trade after horrible trade.  He just wants to play for a real organization and win.  

[S&B Bleeder]

6 hours ago, agarcia34 said:

One thing I don’t get against the argument against Watson is how are they gonna fix the defense. With or without Watson that defense is getting fixed through FA. The defense has tons of young guys already. You listen to Gruden talk it’s now about adding the young vets to help. 
 

So the whole how are they gonna fix the defense with giving up all that draft capital is a no issue: also have u seen the way this team spends first round picks. Might be best to not have those picks 

If you're gonna bring free agents to shore up the defense it's gonna cost and remember you have to pay Watson (a lot) and other guys on the team.

Edited February 4, 2021 by S&B Bleeder

[Jerry]

12 minutes ago, S&B Bleeder said:

If you're gonna bring free agents to shore up the defense it's gonna cost and remember you have to pay Watson (a lot) and other guys on the team.

I agree, but we have time.  Only contract to keep in mind regarding our current guys on the team that need to be resigned is Kolton Miller.  The rest still have a couple years before we need to negotiate their contracts, and I don't think any of them are going to cost as much as Miller.  Crosby and Mullen are next up and shouldn't cost as much as Miller.

[drfrey13]

10 hours ago, Jerry said:

Well Deshaun just went 4-12.  So what happened there?  Are you one of the posters that label him elite?  Just wondering.

No I did not.  What happened last year is part of the reason why I would not put him in that category.  The team had some major issues so I do not put it all on him.  I have reservations about putting him there until he shows last year was an anomaly.  Also why I would be careful of giving up to much for him.  I said I would put him in the range of halfway between Carr and the elite.  It would be a toss up for me between Allen and Watson.  I would probably take Allen because I do not think the light bulb has even gone off in Allen's head yet.  

[drfrey13]

20 minutes ago, Jerry said:

I agree, but we have time.  Only contract to keep in mind regarding our current guys on the team that need to be resigned is Kolton Miller.  The rest still have a couple years before we need to negotiate their contracts, and I don't think any of them are going to cost as much as Miller.  Crosby and Mullen are next up and shouldn't cost as much as Miller.

Watson's contract is in place for the next 5 years at under $30 per year.  When Carr gets his next contract combined with the next 2 years will be close to that.  I could see Carr costing $135-145 over five years and Watson after a trade would be $146.  Not a big deal.  I am more concerned with the picks.  Without having and hitting on 1st rounders, getting some talent will cost a lot more through free agency. 

Edited February 4, 2021 by drfrey13

[Jerry]

3 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

Watson's contract is in place for the next 5 years at under $30 per year.  When Carr gets his next contract combined with the next 2 years will be close to that.  I could see Carr costing $135-145 over five years and Watson after a trade would be $146.  Not a big deal.  I am more concerned with the picks.  Without having and hitting on 1st rounders, getting some talent will cost a lot more through free agency. 

Yeah I can see where you're coming from for sure.  I'm just glad I'm not the GM and HC.  I still don't think Watson is actually on the market for us at all.  This is all speculation until something actually happens.  Hopefully if we do keep the picks, Mayock knocks them out of the park.

[NYRaider]

I just ordered my Watson Raiders jersey. Mayock loves Clemson guys, lets go get one that's actually good at football. 

[Frankie2Gunz]

1 hour ago, jimkelly02 said:

I’m clearly not in the open check book for Watson camp and have been an avid Carr supporter for a while but Watson wanting a trade isn’t on him.  He’s justified for wanting out.  That organization is insane... they have a pastor they’ve promoted to defacto Pro Personnel Director / Asst GM and they’ve mage horrible trade after horrible trade.  He just wants to play for a real organization and win.  

I agree with everything you've said but the question remains are the Raiders considered a real organization who can win?  I don't believe they currently are.  They haven't been able to win anything for 2 decades and frankly have been one of the worst ran/managed franchises over that span.  If I was Watson there is no way I would agree to come to Vegas and until they can prove they are not a dumpster fire and can get some talent on this team, no quality player with a no trade clauses would ever say yes to playing here as it currently stands and I don't blame them.  95 plus percent of teams in the league are much better landing spots for a player like Watson than we currently are....

Edited February 4, 2021 by Frankie2Gunz

[NYRaider]

11 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

I agree with everything you've said but the question remains are the Raiders considered a real organization who can win?  I don't believe they currently are. 

The situations are different but as I said in another thread I think us going from Carr to Watson is pretty comparable to when the Chiefs went from Smith to Mahomes. 

In Smith's final season with KC they went 10-6 and averaged 375 ypg and 25.9 ppg while Smith passed for 4,402 yards and 26 TD. The next season when Mahomes took over they went 12-4 and averaged 425 ypg and 35.3 ppg with pretty much the exact same team around him including Kelce, Hill, and Hunt. 

Last season we went 8-8 and averaged 382 ypg and 27.1 ppg while Carr passed for 4,103 yards and 27 TD. Our weapons aren't quite as potent but Watson would be coming into a similar situation with a good OL and weapons like Jacobs, Waller, Agholor, Renfrow, Ruggs, and Edwards. 

[BayRaider]

10 hours ago, oakdb36 said:

There's none and there will never be but that's not the question. The question is does Watson alone make the team better than it would be with Carr and the players you could draft with the picks you'd be giving up. It's a fair question to ask. I'd go with Watson because an elite QB is so hard to find.

Agreed. An Elite QB always should be a team's #1 priority, and automatically makes us way better. Elite QB's are rare, and when one comes available in his prime, you jump on the opportunity.

7 hours ago, agarcia34 said:

One thing I don’t get against the argument against Watson is how are they gonna fix the defense. With or without Watson that defense is getting fixed through FA. The defense has tons of young guys already. You listen to Gruden talk it’s now about adding the young vets to help. 
 

So the whole how are they gonna fix the defense with giving up all that draft capital is a no issue: also have u seen the way this team spends first round picks. Might be best to not have those picks 

Watson is a 10-12 year investment. What people don't understand is that we have multiple years to build a defense, even with losing a couple years of firsts. And even with just Watson himself, he instantly makes us an 11 win football team imo. And it will only get better from there.

7 hours ago, NYRaider said:

One reason I've kind of changed my tune a little bit and would be happy about a Watson trade is because he basically guarantees that we'll be able to compete against guys like Mahomes and Herbert for the next decade. 

Agreed. We need someone who will compete with these guys over the next decade. This is an offensive football league. Even if we found ourselves having a Top 3 Defense, without a QB on those guys level, we'll never win the division.

[Frankie2Gunz]

13 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

The situations are different but as I said in another thread I think us going from Carr to Watson is pretty comparable to when the Chiefs went from Smith to Mahomes. 

In Smith's final season with KC they went 10-6 and averaged 375 ypg and 25.9 ppg while Smith passed for 4,402 yards and 26 TD. The next season when Mahomes took over they went 12-4 and averaged 425 ypg and 35.3 ppg with pretty much the exact same team around him including Kelce, Hill, and Hunt. 

Last season we went 8-8 and averaged 382 ypg and 27.1 ppg while Carr passed for 4,103 yards and 27 TD. Our weapons aren't quite as potent but Watson would be coming into a similar situation with a good OL and weapons like Jacobs, Waller, Agholor, Renfrow, Ruggs, and Edwards. 

You don't say LOL 

I can't believe you're even implying that our weapons O is close to the Chiefs with Hill, Kelce and Hunt.  The only close comparison is Waller to Kelce, that is it!

Jacobs is coming off a season averaging 3.9 YPC, our Oline could very well lose two key pieces this offseason, Aghlor was a meme before last season because of his terrible play and still has questionable hands, Renfrow, Ruggs and Edwards have proven nothing.  You're making these players out to be better than they have shown on the football field.  

What on earth makes you think Watson would want to come to a team that is mismanaged, has very little proven talent, a HC who has shown nothing since he has come back and a GM who has yet to prove he can make quality picks? Please enlighten me....

I get that Raider homers want to paint this bright picture and make it sound like we are a franchise that can lure quality players but reality around the league is that we are still a joke.  

Watson is not leaving Houston and coming to a franchise that has an equal amount if not less overall talent.  

Edited February 4, 2021 by Frankie2Gunz

[agarcia34]

1 hour ago, S&B Bleeder said:

If you're gonna bring free agents to shore up the defense it's gonna cost and remember you have to pay Watson (a lot) and other guys on the team.

The level of quality FAs would take a hit if you were to get Watson for sure cause of his contract, but the cap should be back to normal in a year so that would help it as well. 

[Turnobili]

everybody is taking Vinny's article as the basis for everything, and nowhere does Vinny say that the Raiders are pursuing anything

[NYRaider]

4 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

You don't say LOL 

I can't believe you're even implying that our weapons O is close to the Chiefs with Hill, Kelce and Hunt.  The only close comparison is Waller to Kelce, that is it!

Jacobs is coming off a season averaging 3.9 YPC, our Oline could very well lose two key pieces this offseason, Aghlor was a meme before last season because of his terrible play and still has questionable hands, Renfrow, Ruggs and Edwards have proven nothing.  You're making these players out to be better than they have shown on the football field.  

Gruden/Mayock have shown a commitment to building a good OL and I expect that commitment will continue. Our OL took a step back this year but we were also without two All-Pro level players for most of the season and were playing musical chairs up front all season. Despite that Carr was only sacked 26 times, which ranked 19th in the NFL. 

And yes I am comparing our weapons to the Chiefs when Mahomes took over. Hill had 593 yards as a rookie and only one 1,000+ yard season when Mahomes became the starter. Ruggs had like 500 yards as a rookie playing through covid and injuries all season, I have faith he'll break out. Not to mention Agholor is coming off of a 900 yard/8 TD season and had flashed for years in Philly. Hill was coming off of an 1,100 yard/7 TD season when Mahomes took over. Waller is coming off of a 1,200 yard/9 TD season and Kelce was coming off of a 1,000 yard/8 TD season. Jacobs is coming off of a 1,065 yard/12 TD season an Hunt was coming off of a 1,300 yard/8 TD season. 

Jacobs production was a little down but he still finished 8th in rushing yards and 4th in rushing TD. Our run blocking took a major step back because of injuries and Jacobs played through injuries all year which is why he didn't have as many explosive plays. I'm not worried about him at all, he's one of the best backs in the league. 

Renfrow has been one of the better/more reliable slot guys in the league and has put up 600+ yards in both of his pro seasons. Not to mention his 72% catch rate ranked 16th amongst WR's with 50+ targets last season. I agree that Ruggs and Edwards have proven nothing but both have flashed and I think you'd see both excel playing with a QB like Watson who is one of the few elite guys in the league.