Rumor: Raiders pursuing a 3 team deal to acquire Dehshaun Watson

[NCOUGHMAN]

1 minute ago, NYRaider said:

I don't know how those small hands would hold up in the Chicago winter. 

Only one way to find out
Peyton wore gloves in the cold 

[NYRaider]

My last point on why I support a potential Deshaun Watson trade. 

We were 8-8 last season but if you change the outcome on 3 plays we finish 11-5 and make the playoffs. 

With those 3 plays being: 

• Abram doesn't abandon his zone and leave Kelce wide open, we beat KC the second time. 

• Mariota doesn't throw an interception on the 10 yard line with two min to go, we beat LA the second time.

• Key doesn't grab Fitzpatrick face mask with 20 seconds to go we beat Miami. 

We had a top 10 offense with Carr at QB despite missing our two best OL all year, Jacobs being banged up most of the season, Ruggs dealing with covid/injuries most of the season, and Edwards dealing with injuries most of the season. Mahomes is like 29-1 in his last 30 starts and his only loss was to us and realistically he should be 28-2 if Abram doesn't bail him out in our second matchup. 

We're the only team that has shown recently that can score with KC as we outscored them in our two matchups this season 71-65. And that was with Carr at QB, a banged up OL, and banged up weapons. I think if you add a guy like Watson who brings an entirely different dynamic to the offense we win those games and are a playoff team. I also think he'd be instrumental in unlocking the potential of guys like Ruggs and Edwards because of his ability to push the ball down the field. 

[Darbsk]

19 hours ago, big_palooka said:

👏👏👏 Because you can still acquire talent without a couple draft picks.

Those draft picks will never have the impact a 25 year old franchise QB will bring you. He's your QB for 10 years... you will have plenty of time to build a defense. 

Some of you are so desperate to "get to the playoffs" in 2021, you don't care about what the team will be past that. 

Let's go back to 2008. Let's say the Raiders decided to trade 3 firsts for 25 year old Aaron Rogers. What would have had more impact in the last 12 years, Aaron Rodgers or McFadden, Heyward-Bey, McClain lol.

I'll ask the questions again..... WHAT player in this 2021 class available mid-first round can compare to a franchise QB? How about in 2022? See... the problem is, it's a crap shoot. You'd rather have "what's in the mystery box" vs. the sure thing.

Seriously.... the way some of you overrate draft picks is hilarious. Been trying to fix the defense for 2 decades, but NOW all of a sudden it's going to happen with these next couple draft picks?? Finally going to get those couple defensive all-pros we've been after? Just hope baby!

Anyway... I'm done with this conversation until there is actually something here to talk about. Bottom line... Watson increases your odds of getting to a Superbowl in his career. Carr will likely never get you there and likely retires in the next 5 years anyway.

I think the bottom line us you're both right, its not mutually exclusive.

In the above example it's obviously Rodgers, but of course it would be. Now, if the choice was say, Matt Ryan over Mack, Jacobs and Miller that may be much, much closer. Obviously Watson is very talented and could be an Elite QB for years but Rodgers is HoF QB no doubt.

The thing is Watson would probably be worth more than our next 3 1st round picks from a production persoective over their (potential) Raider careers but that still doesn't mean we should overpay as @jimkelly02 says. We can with some skill potentially get more impact via Watson plus also get good value too as Houston do have their hands tied to a certain degree.

[Roninho]

13 hours ago, NYRaider said:

I just ordered my Watson Raiders jersey. Mayock loves Clemson guys, lets go get one that's actually good at football. 

Well backup scenario is you just ordered your Menelik Watson jersey.

[ronjon1990]

11 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

You appear to be logical and understand football.  Tell me what I am missing?

Our D is a disaster as we have no player that is close to elite.  That is a fact.We have holes everywhere and terrible depth.  This D is a few years away from being competitive and that is contingent on good FA signings and hitting on key draft picks.  We clearly have not been able to do wither for two decades. 

On O we have Waller and Hudson that are top 5 players for their positions.  Jacobs lacks explosiveness and averaged 3.9 YPC last season.  Who knows if Ruggs will ever develop but he is clearly very raw and has a lot of work to do to live up to his draft status.  Edwards is super raw. NA is a FA and is at best a number 2 with sketchy hands.  We have a HC that makes funny faces and talks a good game but has proven zero since coming back into the league other than he knows how to still rob the Davis family.  Mayock in two years has been a disappointment with bad FA signings and bad reaches in the draft.  

I can tell you:

1. We can't write off Ferrell, Abram, or Arnette despite what we've seen and know deep down to be true because reasons. 

2. Kwit, Hurst, Littleton, and Crosby are actually secretly Pro Bowl all-timers. It's just they wanted Guenther gone and a new scheme. 

3. Jacobs is undoubtedly the franchise for the next 10 years and will be 1st ballot HOF despite already showing diminishing returns from usage because SHUT UP. 

4. Ruggs was our pick. DHB never happened. Ruggs is HOF. No way he could ever bust because so and so says so. He should've had 200 catches, 4000 yards, and 40 tds last year, we just clearly can't understand his transcendent level of talent!

5. Edwards "should've gone 1st round but he was injured". End of story. Don't you dare question 2020's late flashy fan fave pick ever again you mindless twit. 

6. Nelly sucks. Period. 

7. Mayock knows what he's doing better than you because he has the job he's objectively bad at and you don't and his FA classes are totally fine and nobody should question him. It's ONLY been 3 years of back peddling from Reggie and JDR and Mayock has only been here for arguably the worst 2/3 of it. Stop questioning him because while we swore up and down that the move to Vegas was going to bring great success back in 2018 and 2019, it hasn't happened but it's entirely because we don't have a top 5 all-time QB to kick FGs and explain coverages to Abram while blocking Key's facemask on Fitzpatrick from view so we should trade the house like Dan Snyder did for RG3 or the Rams did for Goff because mortgaging the franchise always works out great. Now shut up and leave that logic mumbo jumbo at the door. 

8. We're going sign Allen Robinson, Aaron Jones, and OBJ. Then Kelce and Kittle are going to demamd trades to Vegas, followed by DeAndre Hopkins. Once that happens, Kenny Clark, Myles Garrett, Yannick, Blake Martinez, Jalen Ramsey, and Shaq Barrett are all going to say "eh, screw it, Watson went there so we'll play there for charity because that's what we'll do.". Come on @Frankie2Gunz, didn't you know that already? Getting Watson will just magically attract all the best guys regardless of cap space and that trivial nonsense! I can't believe I have to spell this out for you. It's Madden with the cap turned off! 

 

What you're missing, my friend, is the inability to stick to the bounds of logic and reason instead of buying into fairy tales where a kernel of truth becomes omnipotent and the only way forward with a belief that questioning it at all is a huge sin.

Watson would likely change up the dynamic of our offense for a year or so before our key guys get priced out. Maybe we win another game or two per year, but we'll inevitably flop badly because we won't have the room to make the necessary improvements no matter how many deals are back loaded. He's a ridiculously expensive vanity piece that upgrades what was arguably one of our top 5 most efficient positions last year while ignoring the bottom 15 postions entirely. 

In other words, you're not missing anything worthy of discussion. It's ridiculous all around. Don't burt your brain trying to make sense of it. 

Edited February 5, 2021 by ronjon1990

[true2form]

1 hour ago, ronjon1990 said:

I can tell you:

1. We can't write off Ferrell, Abram, or Arnette despite what we've seen and know deep down to be true because reasons. 

2. Kwit, Hurst, Littleton, and Crosby are actually secretly Pro Bowl all-timers. It's just they wanted Guenther gone and a new scheme. 

3. Jacobs is undoubtedly the franchise for the next 10 years and will be 1st ballot HOF despite already showing diminishing returns from usage because SHUT UP. 

4. Ruggs was our pick. DHB never happened. Ruggs is HOF. No way he could ever bust because so and so says so. He should've had 200 catches, 4000 yards, and 40 tds last year, we just clearly can't understand his transcendent level of talent!

5. Edwards "should've gone 1st round but he was injured". End of story. Don't you dare question 2020's late flashy fan fave pick ever again you mindless twit. 

6. Nelly sucks. Period. 

7. Mayock knows what he's doing better than you because he has the job he's objectively bad at and you don't and his FA classes are totally fine and nobody should question him. It's ONLY been 3 years of back peddling from Reggie and JDR and Mayock has only been here for arguably the worst 2/3 of it. Stop questioning him because while we swore up and down that the move to Vegas was going to bring great success back in 2018 and 2019, it hasn't happened but it's entirely because we don't have a top 5 all-time QB to kick FGs and explain coverages to Abram while blocking Key's facemask on Fitzpatrick from view so we should trade the house like Dan Snyder did for RG3 or the Rams did for Goff because mortgaging the franchise always works out great. Now shut up and leave that logic mumbo jumbo at the door. 

8. We're going sign Allen Robinson, Aaron Jones, and OBJ. Then Kelce and Kittle are going to demamd trades to Vegas, followed by DeAndre Hopkins. Once that happens, Kenny Clark, Myles Garrett, Yannick, Blake Martinez, Jalen Ramsey, and Shaq Barrett are all going to say "eh, screw it, Watson went there so we'll play there for charity because that's what we'll do.". Come on @Frankie2Gunz, didn't you know that already? Getting Watson will just magically attract all the best guys regardless of cap space and that trivial nonsense! I can't believe I have to spell this out for you. It's Madden with the cap turned off! 

 

What you're missing, my friend, is the inability to stick to the bounds of logic and reason instead of buying into fairy tales where a kernel of truth becomes omnipotent and the only way forward with a belief that questioning it at all is a huge sin.

Watson would likely change up the dynamic of our offense for a year or so before our key guys get priced out. Maybe we win another game or two per year, but we'll inevitably flop badly because we won't have the room to make the necessary improvements no matter how many deals are back loaded. He's a ridiculously expensive vanity piece that upgrades what was arguably one of our top 5 most efficient positions last year while ignoring the bottom 15 postions entirely. 

In other words, you're not missing anything worthy of discussion. It's ridiculous all around. Don't burt your brain trying to make sense of it. 

Hahahahahaha

Love it!

[oakdb36]

Watson costs 3M more than Carr over the next 2 years. Then Carr isn't under contract and it's anyone's guess how much re-signing him would cost or any other vet QBs we would replace him with would. The issue isn't the cap unless you're already looking forward to a starting QB on a rookie contract in 2023.

[jimkelly02]

12 hours ago, NYRaider said:

My last point on why I support a potential Deshaun Watson trade. 

We were 8-8 last season but if you change the outcome on 3 plays we finish 11-5 and make the playoffs. 

With those 3 plays being: 

• Abram doesn't abandon his zone and leave Kelce wide open, we beat KC the second time. 

• Mariota doesn't throw an interception on the 10 yard line with two min to go, we beat LA the second time.

• Key doesn't grab Fitzpatrick face mask with 20 seconds to go we beat Miami. 

We had a top 10 offense with Carr at QB despite missing our two best OL all year, Jacobs being banged up most of the season, Ruggs dealing with covid/injuries most of the season, and Edwards dealing with injuries most of the season. Mahomes is like 29-1 in his last 30 starts and his only loss was to us and realistically he should be 28-2 if Abram doesn't bail him out in our second matchup. 

We're the only team that has shown recently that can score with KC as we outscored them in our two matchups this season 71-65. And that was with Carr at QB, a banged up OL, and banged up weapons. I think if you add a guy like Watson who brings an entirely different dynamic to the offense we win those games and are a playoff team. I also think he'd be instrumental in unlocking the potential of guys like Ruggs and Edwards because of his ability to push the ball down the field. 

Ok but.... if except for 3 plays were 11-5 and had a top 10 offense with several rookie players like Ruggs, Edwards, who should really take off next season, then why is there this MASSIVE need to trade Carr from so many on this board?  Clearly he’s capable of leading this offense to success. 

Cuz as you just said were literally on the verge of being a playoff team and should have been.  

im not even supporting Carr... I’ve said at the right price (which isn’t a low ball offer) is trade for Watson.  I’ve even mentioned that Carr’s cheap contract really only has 1 year left because If we keep him it’s because we will extend him and thus the last year of his deal (‘22 will have to have some new contract money into the last year of the current deal).  So the one saving grace for Carr, his cheap contract, ends after this year if we keep him long term.

What I’m getting at is soooo many of the posters here are FINDING and manufacturing evidence to support their claims.  The QB debate has turned into 2 “echo chambers”.  One side that says “Carr’s capable of getting us to the playoffs with a good, but not great, team and until a better QB and good comes around I’d keep him” and the other side that says “Carr can do no right, he sucks, we need to trade away 5 1sts For Watson or 3 Rookie QB3/4 in the draft “.

Each Side can find reasons, or in many cases manufacture reasons, to support their claims.  But the reality is Carr’s a good QB... if he wasn’t there wouldn’t be rumors of playoff teams like Indy and Chicago who have lesser QBs wanting to trade 2 1st for him.

The reality is a decision on Carr and Who will be the long term QB for the Raiders MUST be made this offseason.  

[Frankie2Gunz]

1 hour ago, ronjon1990 said:

I can tell you:

1. We can't write off Ferrell, Abram, or Arnette despite what we've seen and know deep down to be true because reasons. 

2. Kwit, Hurst, Littleton, and Crosby are actually secretly Pro Bowl all-timers. It's just they wanted Guenther gone and a new scheme. 

3. Jacobs is undoubtedly the franchise for the next 10 years and will be 1st ballot HOF despite already showing diminishing returns from usage because SHUT UP. 

4. Ruggs was our pick. DHB never happened. Ruggs is HOF. No way he could ever bust because so and so says so. He should've had 200 catches, 4000 yards, and 40 tds last year, we just clearly can't understand his transcendent level of talent!

5. Edwards "should've gone 1st round but he was injured". End of story. Don't you dare question 2020's late flashy fan fave pick ever again you mindless twit. 

6. Nelly sucks. Period. 

7. Mayock knows what he's doing better than you because he has the job he's objectively bad at and you don't and his FA classes are totally fine and nobody should question him. It's ONLY been 3 years of back peddling from Reggie and JDR and Mayock has only been here for arguably the worst 2/3 of it. Stop questioning him because while we swore up and down that the move to Vegas was going to bring great success back in 2018 and 2019, it hasn't happened but it's entirely because we don't have a top 5 all-time QB to kick FGs and explain coverages to Abram while blocking Key's facemask on Fitzpatrick from view so we should trade the house like Dan Snyder did for RG3 or the Rams did for Goff because mortgaging the franchise always works out great. Now shut up and leave that logic mumbo jumbo at the door. 

8. We're going sign Allen Robinson, Aaron Jones, and OBJ. Then Kelce and Kittle are going to demamd trades to Vegas, followed by DeAndre Hopkins. Once that happens, Kenny Clark, Myles Garrett, Yannick, Blake Martinez, Jalen Ramsey, and Shaq Barrett are all going to say "eh, screw it, Watson went there so we'll play there for charity because that's what we'll do.". Come on @Frankie2Gunz, didn't you know that already? Getting Watson will just magically attract all the best guys regardless of cap space and that trivial nonsense! I can't believe I have to spell this out for you. It's Madden with the cap turned off! 

 

What you're missing, my friend, is the inability to stick to the bounds of logic and reason instead of buying into fairy tales where a kernel of truth becomes omnipotent and the only way forward with a belief that questioning it at all is a huge sin.

Watson would likely change up the dynamic of our offense for a year or so before our key guys get priced out. Maybe we win another game or two per year, but we'll inevitably flop badly because we won't have the room to make the necessary improvements no matter how many deals are back loaded. He's a ridiculously expensive vanity piece that upgrades what was arguably one of our top 5 most efficient positions last year while ignoring the bottom 15 postions entirely. 

In other words, you're not missing anything worthy of discussion. It's ridiculous all around. Don't burt your brain trying to make sense of it. 

100 percent spot on.  It's refreshing I am not the only fan on here who looks at things logically and not like a Madden homer.  I want a SB victory as much as the next guy but to think an upgrade from Carr to Watson is magically going to fix the disaster of a roster we have created is just nonsense, flat out Madden homerism.  

We are no where close to contending and are still considered a dumpster fire to potential FA's and players around the league.  We are a franchise where players go to get paid but realize that this will most likely be their last big payday because if the Raiders have done anything well over the last 20 years it's knowing how to sign players who have shined for other teams then have them come here and destroy their careers.  

Thanks for looking at this situation the same way I do and while I think Watson is a heck of a talent but he would never want to come to LV when he can dictate where he ends up.  Why would he want to leave one dysfunctional franchise and go to another?  It makes zero sense.  I also am in agreement that mortgaging our future for him will only keep our D in purgatory just like it has been for the last decade.  

Anyone who understands football realizes that our 8 and 8 season was tremendous considering how flat out embarrassing our D was.  Carr had a heck of a season last year with an average at best WR corp, a banged up Oline, a RB who averaged 3.9 YPC and a historically terrible D.  That 8 and 8 record speaks volumes about how valuable he is to this team because from a talent perspective this is a 4 win team.  I do like Watson but mortgaging the future for him is just not a smart football move for a team that is so far away from contending and with holes all over the field that need to be addressed first. 

[oakdb36]

29 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

What I’m getting at is soooo many of the posters here are FINDING and manufacturing evidence to support their claims.  The QB debate has turned into 2 “echo chambers”.  One side that says “Carr’s capable of getting us to the playoffs with a good, but not great, team and until a better QB and good comes around I’d keep him” and the other side that says “Carr can do no right, he sucks, we need to trade away 5 1sts For Watson or 3 Rookie QB3/4 in the draft “.  

I'm part of the 1st side and the better QB has come around. It's Deshaun Watson. If you don't want to trade for Watson, i have no idea who could make you want to move on from Carr.

[BackinBlack]

Watson / Houston had a real problem at starting games slow this year. 
While Watson had an amazing year, and Id love to get him for the Raiders 

I do wonder if Carr had the exact same year, how many here would be yelling that they came in garbage time?

[big_palooka]

17 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

to think an upgrade from Carr to Watson is magically going to fix the disaster of a roster we have created is just nonsense

Who is saying this exactly? I think most agree that despite QB, the defense is a couple years away. They need talent on all 3 levels and we're at a crossroad with a handful of young players.

19 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

We are no where close to contending and are still considered a dumpster fire to potential FA's and players around the league.

That's where a guy like Watson (If he'd come here) is crucial. He's a transcendent talent that immediately shifts the culture. Walks in day 1 as the best player in 20 years. Brings leadership and accountability that has been missing since Gannon. He would attract free agents to the organization

25 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

Watson is a heck of a talent but he would never want to come to LV when he can dictate where he ends up.

That is opinion. He's spoken highly of Gruden who is tight with Dabo Sweeny. They could connect some dots potentially. But I do agree to an extent. I've been critical of this organization but Gruden/Mayock have brought some stability.

Love or hate Gruden, he brings the stability to add a guy like Watson. Watson gives Gruden exactly what he's wanted in a QB to run his offense. It would be sink or swim for Gruden at that point as a play caller.

33 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

Why would he want to leave one dysfunctional franchise and go to another?  It makes zero sense.

What about the current Raiders is dysfunctional? Seems pretty stable for the first time in decades. They have a beautiful new home. The owner isn't meddling. There is a clear hierarchy. The coach is established long term. 

I think they've come a long way. And at least have direction currently. Houston is a complete mess that rival only some of the Cleveland Browns era awfulness.

38 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

I do like Watson but mortgaging the future for him is just not a smart football move for a team that is so far away from contending and with holes all over the field that need to be addressed first. 

Trading a couple high draft picks isn't "mortgaging the future". Watson is a 10+ year franchise QB. 

[BackinBlack]

Our D will still be a problem next year, regardless of who our QB is. 

As much as I love Carr, and think with him next year we could still make a big improvement on O. 
There is a gap between Carr and Watson. 
Carr is boarderline top 10, Watson is top 5 proven young QB. 

The reason ive been against moving on from Carr, is because it is tough to find a top 10 QB. Very tough. 
Watson removes that concern. 

To go from top 10, to top 5 QB does amazing things to a team. 

[Frankie2Gunz]

39 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Who is saying this exactly? I think most agree that despite QB, the defense is a couple years away. They need talent on all 3 levels and we're at a crossroad with a handful of young players.

That's where a guy like Watson (If he'd come here) is crucial. He's a transcendent talent that immediately shifts the culture. Walks in day 1 as the best player in 20 years. Brings leadership and accountability that has been missing since Gannon. He would attract free agents to the organization

That is opinion. He's spoken highly of Gruden who is tight with Dabo Sweeny. They could connect some dots potentially. But I do agree to an extent. I've been critical of this organization but Gruden/Mayock have brought some stability.

Love or hate Gruden, he brings the stability to add a guy like Watson. Watson gives Gruden exactly what he's wanted in a QB to run his offense. It would be sink or swim for Gruden at that point as a play caller.

What about the current Raiders is dysfunctional? Seems pretty stable for the first time in decades. They have a beautiful new home. The owner isn't meddling. There is a clear hierarchy. The coach is established long term. 

I think they've come a long way. And at least have direction currently. Houston is a complete mess that rival only some of the Cleveland Browns era awfulness.

Trading a couple high draft picks isn't "mortgaging the future". Watson is a 10+ year franchise QB. 

You can't be that naive?  Seriously, I don't know where to begin.

The AB saga and the way that played out.  We have a stable with a coach who is one of the top paid coaches in the NFL and has yet to have a winning season?  If he doesn't turn things around within the next two seasons he most defiantly should be fired and we are starting all over again.  That is hardly stable, rinse and repeat just like the last 20 years.  What I wouldn't pay for a real  coach Like McVay or Shanahan.

We hire a GM with zero NFL track record who has made terrible signings and reached on players come draft day.  Mayock was supposed to be a draft guru and has been flat out terrible by not getting good value out of his selections and has reached on players many times. 

We cant find anyone on D who can preform, our signings and draft picks have been disasters. 

Take the homer glasses off for one second and then try to justify the Raiders as a stable franchise.  They are still labeled as a dumpster fire around the NFL and have done zero since Gruden has been here to shift that narrative.  

Edited February 5, 2021 by Frankie2Gunz

[NYRaider]

4 hours ago, Roninho said:

Well backup scenario is you just ordered your Menelik Watson jersey.

He'll likely wear #4 so if we don't acquire him I'll replace the name back to Carr.