MWil23 Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 9 hours ago, naptownskinsfan said: Continuing to work on paying down my consumer debt and I had a couple transactions still floating from after our wedding that were still on the rolling statements. Those were all cleared, as well as a smaller payment on my last card (it is the largest balance as I went snowball) and my credit score went down 8 points from those transactions being cleared. Which is wild because I have more available credit. I gather things from a lot of sources, and while I think that Dave Ramsey hasn’t modernized his thoughts just yet, he is correct that credit score is designed to keep you in debt, 110%. We’re looking at another year-ish of eliminating all of our consumer debt, as well as her car. At that point, it should be another year to aggressively go after my car and at that point, it’s just the mortgage left. Keep up the good work! Personally, I agree with about 80-85% of what he says. I hard disagree with him on never using a credit card or rushing to pay off your home if you are like me and have a 15 year mortgage at 2.25% interest. I also have no debt besides my house and pay off my card every month. He’s basically a behavioral financial therapist and good for a lot of folks who lack basic financial literacy skills and need drastic changes in their lives, so he is absolutely fantastic for that crowd. If people used his methods, it would at least be overall a good idea that has a few flaws but nothing catastrophic. He is living in a fantasy land with housing being no more than 1/4 of your income in this market, completely out of touch boomer take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naptownskinsfan Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 5 hours ago, MWil23 said: Keep up the good work! Personally, I agree with about 80-85% of what he says. I hard disagree with him on never using a credit card or rushing to pay off your home if you are like me and have a 15 year mortgage at 2.25% interest. I also have no debt besides my house and pay off my card every month. He’s basically a behavioral financial therapist and good for a lot of folks who lack basic financial literacy skills and need drastic changes in their lives, so he is absolutely fantastic for that crowd. If people used his methods, it would at least be overall a good idea that has a few flaws but nothing catastrophic. He is living in a fantasy land with housing being no more than 1/4 of your income in this market, completely out of touch boomer take. I totally understand the credit card stuff from the perspective of, many people don’t have the discipline to reign it in, but also, I do get that people may be likely to spend more on their credit card than spending cash/debit, even if they pay it off. However……how does he expect any young kid to build credit? Again, he’s against credit, but a kid isn’t buying a house or car, even with cheaper loans for used cars, without some sort of credit. So I think a card with a small limit is good for teens/young adults to start building credit and using for gas and stuff. Like so many other things, financial education has to start at home, before someone turns 18. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 2 hours ago, naptownskinsfan said: I totally understand the credit card stuff from the perspective of, many people don’t have the discipline to reign it in, but also, I do get that people may be likely to spend more on their credit card than spending cash/debit, even if they pay it off. However……how does he expect any young kid to build credit? Again, he’s against credit, but a kid isn’t buying a house or car, even with cheaper loans for used cars, without some sort of credit. So I think a card with a small limit is good for teens/young adults to start building credit and using for gas and stuff. Like so many other things, financial education has to start at home, before someone turns 18. He argues there’s a very specific lender who finances home purchases for those with no credit history, I forget which one he recommends on his show, but that one. And yes, like I said, his credit spending is based upon research studies on spending, which is essentially behavioral psychology applied to financial literacy. Which is why I don’t buy about 15% of what he sells, but that’s just me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 17 hours ago, MWil23 said: He argues there’s a very specific lender who finances home purchases for those with no credit history, I forget which one he recommends on his show, but that one. Dave Ramsey will say absolutely anything if it benefits one of the companies he either maintains equity in or has an advertising partnership with. He suggests people use financial advisors (and falsely advertises their expected returns as 12%) or use other actively managed investment funds, he's advertised both TimeShares and "Get Me Out of My TimeShare" scams, he's refused to condemn pyramid schemes (and there are examples of him endorsing specific ones over and over again). 17 hours ago, MWil23 said: And yes, like I said, his credit spending is based upon research studies on spending, which is essentially behavioral psychology applied to financial literacy. Yep, I've described Dave Ramsey as Alcoholics Anonymous for spending. And on one hand, there's absolutely value for that type of service. On the other hand, he uses that goodwill to advertise absolute dog****. Would anyone feel good about AA if they ran Coors Light ads everywhere? He's also a horrible person outside of his show, hence the lawsuits on his companies. The posterchild Pharisee. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minutemancl Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 On 7/26/2024 at 8:28 PM, Tugboat said: My main thing about Vegan food, is that it always just has weird textures that aren't quite right. Unless it's a dish that is just naturally intended to be vegan, obvs. It's just very limiting in terms of binders and emulsifiers and the natural textures of the ingredients available...if you don't have some of those animal protein elements that are just arranged differently. But i haven't pursued it deeply into the really "high end" realm where maybe some of that is mitigated. Because it's pretty ubiquitous at more "normal levels" of vegan cuisine. So if i'm splurging spending the money on high end food, i'm gonna spend it on high end premium meat tbh. Not out of trying to "stick it to the stupid hippie vegans" or anything. Just...i really enjoy a good piece of meat, cooked to perfection. The good vegan/vegetarian meals I've had, the ones that absolutely blew me away with how good they were, were like this. Avoid meals like "it's a [traditionally meat based dish] with [mushrooms/tofu/etc] instead!". There are some really good vegan places and meals out there to be had if you avoid the places that try to substitute meat and instead work within the parameters they have. Some places will have a BLT on their menu and the bacon is some sort of weird seaweed-based bacon. Others will have a BLT that just doesn't have a bacon substitute at all, but instead has fried green tomato and homemade specialty mayo and homemade bread that is the perfect amount of crunchy but doesn't scratch the roof of your mouth. That's the place you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 35 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: Dave Ramsey will say absolutely anything if it benefits one of the companies he either maintains equity in or has an advertising partnership with. He suggests people use financial advisors (and falsely advertises their expected returns as 12%) or use other actively managed investment funds, he's advertised both TimeShares and "Get Me Out of My TimeShare" scams, he's refused to condemn pyramid schemes (and there are examples of him endorsing specific ones over and over again). Yep, I've described Dave Ramsey as Alcoholics Anonymous for spending. And on one hand, there's absolutely value for that type of service. On the other hand, he uses that goodwill to advertise absolute dog****. Would anyone feel good about AA if they ran Coors Light ads everywhere? He's also a horrible person outside of his show, hence the lawsuits on his companies. The posterchild Pharisee. My personal favorite is that he has his own cruise, advertised as “Baby step 4 and above”, but they accept credit cards as payment. 10/10 on the unintentional comedy scale. The whole “it’s simple, find a house at 1/4 of your income with 50% down and a 15 year mortgage” is peak boomer nonsense. His insistency to use debt snowball instead of debt avalanche speaks to behavioralism “wins” vs financial literacy. His other “it’s simple, allocate 15% into retirement not counting employer contributions” is also absolutely hilarious. My wife gets 8% from her employer and they match another 4%, so we do that. She is essentially at 16%, but they’d say she needs to allocate another 11%. I do a 5% match into a ROTH and we also put away $300 a month combined into a high risk indexed mutual fund account. We have a 15 year mortgage at 2.25% with 3 kids in school and are middle middle class with no car payment or other debt, and we are mostly “break even” after all that (10% giving to our church as well). Literally math doesn’t work here. My house escrow is up $400 a month. Electric is up $50 a month. Groceries are up $200 a month. My middle kid has a few grand in medical expenses each year (cleft kid). Yes we have that $20,000 in emergency savings. Yes we have $40-45K in our mutual fund. Yes I have $190K in my 401k equivalent. But tell me Dave, where’s the extra cash coming from short of me pulling a second job? My point isn’t to say woe is me, we are doing a lot better than most our age, and that’s exactly my point with how problematic and antiquated this stuff is. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 2 minutes ago, MWil23 said: My personal favorite is that he has his own cruise, advertised as “Baby step 4 and above”, but they accept credit cards as payment. 10/10 on the unintentional comedy scale. That's incredible bahahaha. I'm picturing people confused lined up outside a boat with their envelopes. 3 minutes ago, MWil23 said: The whole “it’s simple, find a house at 1/4 of your income with 50% down and a 15 year mortgage” is peak boomer nonsense. His insistency to use debt snowball instead of debt avalanche speaks to behavioralism “wins” vs financial literacy. His other “it’s simple, allocate 15% into retirement not counting employer contributions” is also absolutely hilarious. My wife gets 8% from her employer and they match another 4%, so we do that. She is essentially at 16%, but they’d say she needs to allocate another 11%. I do a 5% match into a ROTH and we also put away $300 a month combined into a high risk indexed mutual fund account. We have a 15 year mortgage at 2.25% with 3 kids in school and are middle middle class with no car payment or other debt, and we are mostly “break even” after all that (10% giving to our church as well). Literally math doesn’t work here. My house escrow is up $400 a month. Electric is up $50 a month. Groceries are up $200 a month. My middle kid has a few grand in medical expenses each year (cleft kid). Yes we have that $20,000 in emergency savings. Yes we have $40-45K in our mutual fund. Yes I have $190K in my 401k equivalent. But tell me Dave, where’s the extra cash coming from short of me pulling a second job? I've got a friend who used Dave as an intro to financial literacy with his wife, and they did this exercise where they live (proper city of LA area), and for a family of 2 they'd need $500k/year income. Even adjusting for inflation, that's dumber than the $175k jobs thread. 5 minutes ago, MWil23 said: My point isn’t to say woe is me, we are doing a lot better than most our age, and that’s exactly my point with how problematic and antiquated this stuff is. You'd be shocked to learn that Ramsey Media Solutions isn't exactly cutting edge when it comes to HR practices either. In order to work for Dave Ramsey, you not only need to do a regular job interview, your spouse needs to do one too. And every employee has to sign an NDA and Non-disparagement agreement. He's a creep. I have no doubts. He's running that company like an abusive youth pastor. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 (edited) 15 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: That's incredible bahahaha. I'm picturing people confused lined up outside a boat with their envelopes. I will say this: My wife and I used some of his methods to pay off student loans and used the envelope system for some initial “school of hard knocks” budgeting when we had no baseline idea of what things should cost. That was also in 2011. Once we got a grasp on basic bills and budgeting, we went to credit cards, paid them off each month, and use the cash back for Christmas gifts. 15 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: I've got a friend who used Dave as an intro to financial literacy with his wife, and they did this exercise where they live (proper city of LA area), and for a family of 2 they'd need $500k/year income. Even adjusting for inflation, that's dumber than the $175k jobs thread. That thread was an all timer sir! 15 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: You'd be shocked to learn that Ramsey Media Solutions isn't exactly cutting edge when it comes to HR practices either. In order to work for Dave Ramsey, you not only need to do a regular job interview, your spouse needs to do one too. And every employee has to sign an NDA and Non-disparagement agreement. He's a creep. I have no doubts. He's running that company like an abusive youth pastor. Speaking as a Christian, I know he fixates on the “borrower is slave to the lender” verse, which does have SOME value. However, when you call people stupid and belittle others who call in, treat anyone who disagrees with you on using credit as a tool if done so responsibly and dismissively state “have fun staying middle class”…you’re not exactly golden ruling it or following commands to love your wife and family, others, or train your kids. …then those who buy into your schtick find themselves debt free at whatever age, which sounds absolutely amazing, but the cost has been zero family vacations, less time at home present with your kids, etc., that’s an incredible cost from a lifelong and interrelationship perspective. Sure, I could pay off my mortgage in 6 years. And guess what? My oldest will be 16 and I’m betting she’d rather have had me home more, gone on trips more, and had experienced life some as opposed to watching her dad being miserable and never ordering Chinese takeout. Edited July 29 by MWil23 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywindO2 Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 I somewhat followed Dave's advice to pay off my student loans (the snowball payoff method) but I did that on my own before hearing about him. Most of his advice is just awful though. The idea that you should drain your savings and not have an emergency fund while paying loans is ridiculous. I also can't stand his advice with retirement, he advices shouldn't be paying into a retirement fund if you have non-mortgage debt to pay off. There's maybe a handful of scenarios where you shouldn't at least be putting in enough to get your company match but those are few and far between. You should always be contributing something to retirement and it's important to start doing it as young as possible. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVScout Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 Dave Ramsey sued for $150 million by former fans who followed his timeshare exit advice The class-action lawsuit is the latest legal woe for Ramsey and his company. https://web.archive.org/web/20231228092244/https://religionnews.com/2023/06/01/dave-ramsey-sued-for-150-million-by-former-fans-who-followed-his-timeshare-exit-advice/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywindO2 Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 14 minutes ago, TVScout said: Dave Ramsey sued for $150 million by former fans who followed his timeshare exit advice The class-action lawsuit is the latest legal woe for Ramsey and his company. https://web.archive.org/web/20231228092244/https://religionnews.com/2023/06/01/dave-ramsey-sued-for-150-million-by-former-fans-who-followed-his-timeshare-exit-advice/ And we're happy for him 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D82 Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 2 hours ago, TVScout said: Dave Ramsey sued for $150 million by former fans who followed his timeshare exit advice The class-action lawsuit is the latest legal woe for Ramsey and his company. https://web.archive.org/web/20231228092244/https://religionnews.com/2023/06/01/dave-ramsey-sued-for-150-million-by-former-fans-who-followed-his-timeshare-exit-advice/ Why is anyone following Dave Ramsey? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 44 minutes ago, D82 said: Why is anyone following Dave Ramsey? https://www.marketwatch.com/guides/banking/american-debt-2024/ The number of fiscally illiterate people in this country parlayed by the enormous debt, student loans, flat wages, etc parlayed by the promise of getting out of it and being “financially independent” with millions of “success stories” and a “9 step plan” is how. On the surface it’s alluring, especially when you don’t know what you’re doing financially. You (plural) would be stunned at how many folks leave an employer match on the table because they don’t know how retirement or compound interest works. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReggieCamp Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 @MWil23 and @ramssuperbowl99, You both nailed the Dave Ramsey thing, and I don't have much to add. The older I get, the less I agree with him (could never take him in large doses). Anyway, a guy who was the real deal was a guy named Larry Burkett. He was much more down-to-earth, and he taught me a lot. He died 20 years ago, but I'll still re-read one of his books now and then. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 23 minutes ago, ReggieCamp said: @MWil23 and @ramssuperbowl99, You both nailed the Dave Ramsey thing, and I don't have much to add. The older I get, the less I agree with him (could never take him in large doses). Anyway, a guy who was the real deal was a guy named Larry Burkett. He was much more down-to-earth, and he taught me a lot. He died 20 years ago, but I'll still re-read one of his books now and then. Dave Ramsey was great for 23 year old us with $60K in college debt. @ramssuperbowl99 was a legitimate life changer for us age 30 with helping me understand what investing is, how it works, what compound interest is, answered every question I had for him and then some with awesome dialogue and flow charts, and a huge reason how I could be here a few or many years later. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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