MacReady Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 Just now, incognito_man said: Is there a stronger correlation between gross points against and playoff wins than DVOA and playoff wins? I would be surprised if there is. Mostly because teams that have really good points against also have really good DVOA. I bet they track very similarly. I'd be interested to see just playoff DVOA numbers. Regardless, points against is the best, and we're very bad in that category. I'd look at DVOA in the season for finding a new defensive coordinator or a head coach, but I wouldn't look at it when it comes to retaining or getting rid of my own staff. For that, I'd look at bottom line results, and they haven't been good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibrett15 Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 3 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said: I'd be interested to see just playoff DVOA numbers. Regardless, points against is the best, and we're very bad in that category. I'd look at DVOA in the season for finding a new defensive coordinator or a head coach, but I wouldn't look at it when it comes to retaining or getting rid of my own staff. For that, I'd look at bottom line results, and they haven't been good. Points against is influenced by pace of play whereas DVOA is not. Points against per drive is a better metric (but not as digestible). I went on a pretty long rant/explanation on the differences after the Dallas game (which was artificially short since teams had fewer possessions). DVOA is not being used by one side or another in defense/support of capers/Mac/TT. It's used by both sides to explain a position, which is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 Just now, skibrett15 said: I went on a pretty long rant/explanation on the differences after the Dallas game (which was artificially short since teams had fewer possessions) Right, I saw that. And the flaw to that is the Cowboys ran a very specific gameplan that we allowed them to run. They didn't score more points because we let them do what they wanted to do, which was take short plays and play for third and short/medium. A good defense isn't giving up 30 points a game. I don't care what happens in the game short of 5 turnovers that the opposing team takes to the 10 yard line. Good defenses hold opponents to field goals, come up with turnovers... We were BAD - no other word for it - BAD defenses the years we gave up 37, 46, 44 and 45 points in the playoffs. Period. No question mark, maybe exclamation mark, but at the very best a period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoellPreston88 Posted November 7, 2017 Author Share Posted November 7, 2017 Well, the team does not look to be very good outside of #12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoellPreston88 Posted November 7, 2017 Author Share Posted November 7, 2017 I would just like to say I think most of our guys on defense suck and the guys who people think are good aren't actually that good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubz41 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 To run all these numbers and find statistical anecdotes to back up decisions of inactivity is how wars are lost. We suck. Our defense has been embarrassing on National TV for years now. We try to assign blame, or not, on who should bear the brunt- all the while nothing happens. We pat ourselves on the back and play the 'injury' card over and over and over. We belittle arguments that aren't backed up by some convoluted statistic. Just look at our performances the last couple weeks! You think some statistic is reasonable to save anyone who is responsible? Sometimes you need to get mad, sometimes you need to heed your gut! The coaching staff had two full weeks to prepare and what we witnessed last night was the result? Give me a goddamn break. Apologists will gather and find all kinds of excuses. They will bring up obscure stats that will try to explain why we should stick with a system that is FAILING! You can keep the 'system' that produces HISTORICALLY awful playoff defensive game plans and an offense that relies on the greatness of one player to lift the rest of them. This isn't just a one game reaction, so save your breath, it is the recall of surviving the 70s-80s wasteland. Steps need to be taken soon before THAT death spiral starts again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 The defense has no pass rush, I actually thought from my vantage point the coverage was alright last night. Randall and King made some nice plays and House was always contesting. When you're a top 15 NFL QB and you have total comfort in the pocket you can place dimes where you want to and that's what Stafford did. Both those TDs were beautiful throws, indefensible. It was a huge mistake moving on from Peppers and Datone and replacing them with Fackrell and nobody. Obviously Brooks' injuries have been unfortunate but we needed more than that. Matthews should be phased out of the defense and used as a rusher, instead he's playing more than ever. Perry and Daniels have hit post injury walls. I actually like the makeup of our secondary. Randall is light years away from the guy benched vs CHI and King has had all good weeks save NO. When a QB can sit there and pat the ball and make whatever throw he wants it's going to be ugly. QBs are too good now and the rules favor the WRs. I'm done defending Ted and I don't mind if Dom has to fall on the sword with them. McCarthy's game plan sucked again, but I like how he coaches and plans with Rodgers. When Rodgers hangs them up Mac can go with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartacus Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 23 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: The defense has no pass rush, I actually thought from my vantage point the coverage was alright last night. Randall and King made some nice plays and House was always contesting. When you're a top 15 NFL QB and you have total comfort in the pocket you can place dimes where you want to and that's what Stafford did. Both those TDs were beautiful throws, indefensible. It was a huge mistake moving on from Peppers and Datone and replacing them with Fackrell and nobody. Obviously Brooks' injuries have been unfortunate but we needed more than that. Matthews should be phased out of the defense and used as a rusher, instead he's playing more than ever. Perry and Daniels have hit post injury walls. I actually like the makeup of our secondary. Randall is light years away from the guy benched vs CHI and King has had all good weeks save NO. When a QB can sit there and pat the ball and make whatever throw he wants it's going to be ugly. QBs are too good now and the rules favor the WRs. I'm done defending Ted and I don't mind if Dom has to fall on the sword with them. McCarthy's game plan sucked again, but I like how he coaches and plans with Rodgers. When Rodgers hangs them up Mac can go with him. I'm with you on this almost 100%. The only thing I will say is I don't really believe our secondary is that talented either although Randall and King look like good young pieces if they can continue improving. I don't know who is in FA next year but if its at all possible to get a true number 1 corner in FA next year I think we need to jump on it. I know that FA pick there destinations and everything so its unlikely. Draft pass rushers heavily next year and hope at least one can make a large contribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
driftwood Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 33 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: McCarthy's game plan sucked again, but I like how he coaches and plans with Rodgers. When Rodgers hangs them up Mac can go with him. doesnt Rodgers have basically full control once they break the huddle (him & MM have at least hinted at that when asked over the last few years)? i mean, at this point Rodgers could be a coach/player & its pretty obvious by how much different this team performs when hes under center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
driftwood Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 10 minutes ago, Spartacus said: Draft pass rushers heavily next year and hope at least one can make a large contribution. heh, they'll draft another left tackle & play him at RG with the #8 overall pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOnlyThing Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 29 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: It was a huge mistake moving on from Peppers and Datone and replacing them with Fackrell and nobody. Yes, yes it was. Do Ted's moves, or more accurately non-moves, at outside linebacker circa 2017 remind anyone of 2013 at Safety? In 2017, he makes no effort to keep Peppers and instead entrusts the position to his 2016 3rd round pick and veteran UDFA Jayrone Elliott (until right before the season began and Brooks fell into his lap). In 2013, Ted moved on from another older, star player in Charles Woodson and gave one of the Safety position to his 2012 4th round pick Jerron McMillian and veteran UDFA M.D.Jennings. Woodson went on to have a couple more highly productive seasons in Oakland just like Julius is in 2017 upon his return to Carolina. McMillian and Jennings were so GD awful they were both out of the NFL entirely by then end of 2013. In 2017, Elliott is already a former NFL player and is there any doubt that Fackrell is soon to follow? Dom is deserving of all the blame he is getting. About time TT gets his share as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 2 minutes ago, driftwood said: doesnt Rodgers have basically full control once they break the huddle (him & MM have at least hinted at that when asked over the last few years)? i mean, at this point Rodgers could be a coach/player & its pretty obvious by how much different this team performs when hes under center. He has some checks he can make, the only time he "calls" the plays is in the 2 minute drill. Mac has consistently referred to the "menu" of route concepts they create and practice and then Aaron dials them up as he sees fit in 2 minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartacus Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 2 minutes ago, driftwood said: doesnt Rodgers have basically full control once they break the huddle (him & MM have at least hinted at that when asked over the last few years)? i mean, at this point Rodgers could be a coach/player & its pretty obvious by how much different this team performs when hes under center. I think with Hundley the issue isn't scheme but the fact that he absolutely refuses to go through his progressions. When you call a man beating timing route you need to be able to read the defense quickly and throw on time. Something Hundley never did the entire game till it was too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Just now, TheOnlyThing said: Yes, yes it was. Do Ted's moves, or more accurately non-moves, at outside linebacker circa 2017 remind anyone of 2013 at Safety? In 2017, he makes no effort to keep Peppers and instead entrusts the position to his 2016 3rd round pick and veteran UDFA Jayrone Elliott (until right before the season began and Brooks fell into his lap). In 2013, Ted moved on from another older, star player in Charles Woodson and gave one of the Safety position to his 2012 4th round pick Jerron McMillian and veteran UDFA M.D.Jennings. Woodson went on to have a couple more highly productive seasons in Oakland just like Julius is in 2017 upon his return to Carolina. McMillian and Jennings were so GD awful they were both out of the NFL entirely by then end of 2013. In 2017, Elliott is already a former NFL player and is there any doubt that Fackrell is soon to follow? Dom is deserving of all the blame he is getting. About time TT gets his share as well. Many of us we're upset about this, EDGE is not a position you can be thin at and Ted left us thin. We lost a ton of 2016 snaps and have replaced them with awful Kyler Fackrell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOnlyThing Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Just now, Packerraymond said: Many of us we're upset about this, EDGE is not a position you can be thin at and Ted left us thin. We lost a ton of 2016 snaps and have replaced them with awful Kyler Fackrell. I have been a naysayer of Ted Thompson's EXTREME reliance on "draft & develop" well since forever. Letting players like Woodson and Peppers walk so that draftees like McMillian and Fackrell get their necessary snaps to allow your draftee to "develop" is not a sound philosophy. More like GM malpractice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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