2021 Baker thread

[H2ThaIzzo]

20 minutes ago, brownie man said:

It’s funny 

I don’t think Bakers play actually got us here. 
 

we knew he was injured

I think what did it for our FO and coaching staff was the level of immaturity he showed in the face of adversity

which adversity? having a teammates dad post a youtube video bashing you to help force his way out of town? being the scapegoat for every loss no matter how many mistakes were made by other players or coaching decisions? having to watch and support his team from home against Denver when he couldn't play due to covid protocols? 

The entire 2021 season was adversity. From the shoulder injury week 2, to the countless injuries and covid issues that plagued us throughout the middle of the season, to OBJ going off script and being unreliable while he was here, before actually putting in effort in LA. He played with a torn labrum up until the moment we were eliminated from the playoffs. What else did you want him to do? 

So where is this adversity issue specifically? Was it when he replied to MKC about the reported divide between KS and BM? If her information was accurate, how did she get it? For an organization that prides itself on privacy and "we aren't going to address that" type comments, how did they manage to have a leak come from the building? Was it his response to the Watson trade attempt? I'm sure having a pretty highly regarded media source like Mort state that someone within the organization question his being an "adult" was something extremely fun to hear. 

 

Dude showed up to work every day. He was active with his teammates, including the one that wanted nothing more than to get out, and he was a role model to the city and the various charities he and his wife were involved with. He had a bad season after high expectations for the entire team, one which he played with an injury for the majority of, and no matter who else sucked, or made mistakes, he was the guy taking the shots, all of them. 

[Thomas5737]

47 minutes ago, brownie man said:

It’s funny 

I don’t think Bakers play actually got us here. 
 

we knew he was injured

I think what did it for our FO and coaching staff was the level of immaturity he showed in the face of adversity

What are you talking about? Skipping an interview? I don't find it that abnormal. I think you are hyper-sensitive to anything that you can find a negative in. If it's anyone else no one cares about any of this.

[MWil23]

My criticism of Baker is purely on the field. Criticizing him for anything else here is disingenuous. IMO the Browns should deal him to Seattle and go through a mini rebuild before this gets even uglier, is a future detractor for dealing with players in bad faith, and they continue to bring trade value down.

[NateDawg]

I’m cool still running it back at this point but quite frankly, Baker has to hold up his side of maturity on this being accomplished. There’s fault on both sides. But when a quarterback plays subpar in the NFL, it’s not atypical for a team to try to make an upgrade. In Mayfield’s case, we know how he takes things. He’s gotta put the ego aside and keep pushing. It’s best for both sides. If he can’t do that and I have to read daily drama about this then Browns need to move on. 

[MWil23]

Baker is free to ask for a trade and the Browns are free to deny it.

That said, tell any quarterback in the league you’re pursuing “top tier talent” and you’ll get this response publicly or behind the scenes and the writing was on the wall days ago when he posted his farewell message and removed all Browns everything from social media.

And imagine telling your spouse you are pursuing top tier others and then trying to work out that relationship when nobody better shows up.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

7 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

What are you talking about? Skipping an interview? I don't find it that abnormal. I think you are hyper-sensitive to anything that you can find a negative in. If it's anyone else no one cares about any of this.

I’m assuming based on their supposed comments of wanting an adult at the position.

I think this is one aspect fans are just gonna have to admit we don’t know much about.  We aren’t the ones with him every day.

 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

7 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Baker is free to ask for a trade and the Browns are free to deny it.

That said, tell any quarterback in the league you’re pursuing “top tier talent” and you’ll get this response publicly or behind the scenes and the writing was on the wall days ago when he posted his farewell message and removed all Browns everything from social media.

Im not on the tweeter, but im pretty sure Hill, Darnold, Ryan, etc., haven’t posted anything.

In fact, Ryan moved some of his bonuses out a few days to give them time.

 

7 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

And imagine telling your spouse you are pursuing top tier others and then trying to work out that relationship when nobody better shows up.

This same correlation has been mentioned before, but it doesn’t fit. Comparing a romantic/supposed lifelong relationship to a business relationship doesn’t work.

That said, if you want to use it, let’s run with it.

Imagine your spouse offering you a 2ct rock last year (extension for those not keeping up) wanting your partnership to take the next step.  You decline.  The rock’s just not big enough, may be you could do better? You then spend the next few months arguing with your spouse in public. 
 

Should we still be surprised that the rejected party is looking elsewhere?

I’m not saying this is all Baker’s fault or it was handled well by either side, but I don’t see him as a victim here.

[MWil23]

11 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Im not on the tweeter, but im pretty sure Hill, Darnold, Ryan, etc., haven’t posted anything.

In fact, Ryan moved some of his bonuses out a few days to give them time.

 

This same correlation has been mentioned before, but it doesn’t fit. Comparing a romantic/supposed lifelong relationship to a business relationship doesn’t work.

That said, if you want to use it, let’s run with it.

Imagine your spouse offering you a 2ct rock last year (extension for those not keeping up) wanting your partnership to take the next step.  You decline.  The rock’s just not big enough, may be you could do better? You then spend the next few months arguing with your spouse in public. 
 

Should we still be surprised that the rejected party is looking elsewhere?

I’m not saying this is all Baker’s fault or it was handled well by either side, but I don’t see him as a victim here.

All of that is fair. I'd add a few caveats:

1. I don't believe and never said Baker is a victim, I just said I don't fault him

2. I've taken issue with Baker's personality and irrational pride for 4+ years now, and this is kind of my take towards the QB position, as was well documented when he came out. I don't usually believe that "prickly" quarterbacks are good for an organization unless they are straight up ballers like Rodgers, and even then, he's been widely criticized across the league and even within that fanbase for "only getting to and winning 1 Super Bowl" despite his 3 MVP's and HOF career.

3. It takes tact to navigate the media, a fanbase, and an organization as a QB for the above reason, and Baker has never had that. We love his personality (those of us who do) because he's passionate, plays hard, and wears his emotions on his sleeves. That said, he's not been great. He's been largely average.

4. Baker has zero negotiation power here, and yet it's a bad look for both parties. The Browns are somewhat foolish to keep a blatantly disgruntled QB, and yet Baker is absolutely in the "put up or shut up" tier. It's year 5, it's a contract year, and he's coming off of a BAD 2021 to go with a BAD 2019 and a largely 4 year AVERAGE body of work with enough film to expose his turnover propensity, struggles navigating the pocket, struggles with pressure and reading a defense, and the fact that he's plateaued in the eyes of most people.

Baker NEEDS a great 5th year to get a big contract, and maybe even remain a starter anywhere else in the league, and his best odds are HERE or Indianapolis. Why do you (you general, not you specific) think he wants to go to INDY? He knows he needs a core roster intact and Frank Reich is a guru, which will give him a big payday and keep him as a starter for another 3+ years.

What's he going to do, sit out? Good luck dude. Go ahead and leave money and a year on the table and then renegotiate next year with "attitude issues", "baggage", and really bad 2021 film with no 2022 film in a good QB draft class and 27 years old. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

33 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

All of that is fair. I'd add a few caveats:

1. I don't believe and never said Baker is a victim, I just said I don't fault him

2. I've taken issue with Baker's personality and irrational pride for 4+ years now, and this is kind of my take towards the QB position, as was well documented when he came out. I don't usually believe that "prickly" quarterbacks are good for an organization unless they are straight up ballers like Rodgers, and even then, he's been widely criticized across the league and even within that fanbase for "only getting to and winning 1 Super Bowl" despite his 3 MVP's and HOF career.

3. It takes tact to navigate the media, a fanbase, and an organization as a QB for the above reason, and Baker has never had that. We love his personality (those of us who do) because he's passionate, plays hard, and wears his emotions on his sleeves. That said, he's not been great. He's been largely average.

Yeah.  Dudes who look for a chip to hoist upon their shoulder in every situation and those who are prickly, good word, can get tedious as hell over time. I think working with someone like that day in day out only exacerbates the issue.  Like they may be a cool dude to knock back a beer with on Saturdays, but M-F they drive people lightweight nuts.

33 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

4. Baker has zero negotiation power here, and yet it's a bad look for both parties. The Browns are somewhat foolish to keep a blatantly disgruntled QB, and yet Baker is absolutely in the "put up or shut up" tier. It's year 5, it's a contract year, and he's coming off of a BAD 2021 to go with a BAD 2019 and a largely 4 year AVERAGE body of work with enough film to expose his turnover propensity, struggles navigating the pocket, struggles with pressure and reading a defense, and the fact that he's plateaued in the eyes of most people.

Baker NEEDS a great 5th year to get a big contract, and maybe even remain a starter anywhere else in the league, and his best odds are HERE or Indianapolis. Why do you (you general, not you specific) think he wants to go to INDY? He knows he needs a core roster intact and Frank Reich is a guru, which will give him a big payday and keep him as a starter for another 3+ years.

What's he going to do, sit out? Good luck dude. Go ahead and leave money and a year on the table and then renegotiate next year with "attitude issues", "baggage", and really bad 2021 film with no 2022 film in a good QB draft class and 27 years old. 

Yep. The only concerning part with him is he may just be that stubborn. 
 

And I do get the idea that this is who we drafted, but I think you have to expect and hope guys mature from 22-23 to 26-27.  Maybe he has, maybe he hasn’t idk, but this seems to be the sticking point for some in the org.

[MWil23]

11 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Yeah.  Dudes who look for a chip to hoist upon their shoulder in every situation and those who are prickly, good word, can get tedious as hell over time. I think working with someone like that day in day out only exacerbates the issue.  Like they may be a cool dude to knock back a beer with on Saturdays, but M-F they drive people lightweight nuts.

I think that leadership means stability, and emotional volatility does not work out over the long haul. That goes for coaches and quarterbacks.

That's why Jim Harbaugh usually is good for like 5 years then moves on. It wears on people over time, absolutely this.

11 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Yep. The only concerning part with him is he may just be that stubborn. 

If he is that stubborn, I hope he holds out, loses tens of millions, and ends up battling for a starting gig the rest of his career for teams like Detroit, the Jets, the Giants, Philly, etc. I may even pay money to watch him have to deal with the NY or Philly Media if he thinks he's had it tough here.

TBH, I think more than anything, the Browns are trying (and going to succeed) in driving UP the value for Baker. The "no we want/need him" and holding onto him is actually going to create a market. Right now, the only team who has expressly shown interest is Seattle. There are 3 teams left for Watson, meaning 2 losers, so between those 3 teams and the Colts, those are 4 teams ready to contend.

The Saints have a core roster intact.

The Panthers are in WIN NOW mode FO to HC on down.

The Falcons may have a disgruntled Matt Ryan but will likely hang onto him and try to salvage things.

Irsay ran Wentz out of town because they missed the playoffs, and their core roster and weak division says "win now".

11 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

And I do get the idea that this is who we drafted, but I think you have to expect and hope guys mature from 22-23 to 26-27.  Maybe he has, maybe he hasn’t idk, but this seems to be the sticking point for some in the org.

Brash is cool when you're in your young twenties in college and are a "hero" figure. After that, it's absurd. That's where I am with Baker. He's jumped the shark for me.

[DaWg_LB.]

11 hours ago, bruceb said:

Wish I had some of whatever you are smoking, imbibing or injecting.

The largest picture is that he does not/cannot perform in the clutch.

Cute.....and Were done here...

Agree to disagree.

[DaWg_LB.]

10 hours ago, H2ThaIzzo said:

The Cleveland Browns in 2021 had:

The 30th most FG's made

The 37th most accurate kicker

Missed PAT in a 2 point loss to GB (1)

MIssed FG in a 2 point loss to LV (2)

Missed FG in a 6 point loss to BAL (3)

Chubb Fumble at KC (4)

Landry fumbles vs Bal & Pit (5&6)

I think we all agree that Baker didn't have a good year last season, nobody is arguing that. There happened to be 6 impactful, costly mistakes by players (not terrible coaching decisions, which there were many of as well), not named Baker mayfield that directly impacted the outcome of close games. People seem to either ignore or just forget that because it's easier to blame everything on the QB. 

We had a FG kicker that we clearly didn't trust throughout the year, hence the low rank for attempt totals. Led to us going for 29 4th down attempts and only converting 12 of those. 

Against the Packers our wonderful kicking group missed the PAT on our first score, and then the coach decided to go for 2 in the second quarter and failed. When we score the TD with just over 4 mins left in the game, we would have had a chance to tie the game by going for two and converting it there. Yes, the game ended on an interception, and yes, it was clearly a defensive holding call on Douglas that didn't get called, we can all agree to this, correct?

Against the Raiders, Chase misses a FG at the end of the half. We battle back to take the lead by 1, but LV ends up driving to kick the game winning FG in the 4th. Chase makes the FG that good kickers make, and Oakland is forced to try and get the TD to win. 

Against Baltimore we drive down the field on the opening series to have another missed FG by our kicker. Baker hits Bryant for a huge play inside Baltimore's territory, and the very next play Stefanski calls the trick play for Jarvis that he ends up fumbling and turning the ball over. 

Against KC we are in the lead, KC cuts it down to a 1 score game. We are driving and Chubb has his one lost fumble of the entire season. They gain the momentum, and end up with the 4 point victory. 

Against Pit 4th quarter we are driving down the field, convert 3 critical first downs. Baker then hits Landry for what was to be another first down conversion, only for Landry to fumble the ball at Pittsburgh's 21 yard line. We lose by 5. We take the final drive to Pit's 26 yard line, where we either could have been playing for a tie or a win on a FG had the earlier turnover not happened. 

 

We lost 9 games in 2021. In 5 of the 9 losses, critical plays made by players not named Baker Mayfield impacted our opportunities to win, yet we don't talk about those. We pretend those didn't happen and that every loss was because of Baker. We lost a 6th game when Baker put up 42 points and had zero turnovers. 

Was Baker good last year? Again, no. But neither was our kicking game, neither was our coaching decisions, neither was our receiving group (12th most dropped passes with the 28th most pass attempts in the league). If we win all of those 5 games, hell, if we just ended up winning 2 of them, we finish 10-7 rather than 8-9 and we are in the playoffs for a second straight season. If we upgrade the kicker position, and the receiver position, and our coach gets better at some of his in game decisions, this team is a competitor with Baker Mayfield healthy and under center.  

You Could Learn a lot from this guy @bruceb...A solid, logical, retort, bolstered by examples of what really happened. Vs. your eloquent ..."I want know what your smoking or imbibing" LOL......Cute..really adorable....

[DaWg_LB.]

 

https://brobible.com/sports/article/baker-mayfield-browns-jimmy-haslam/

 

[Browns1987]

15 hours ago, hornbybrown said:

Baker is to immature and petty to be a franchise QB. Needs to grow up

Matt Ryan is also immature and petty then? 

No QB with a minimum sense of pride, unless he is a rookie, would be fine with being a plan B. This mentality of "I will shut up and work harder" is just for movies. 

 

[MWil23]

15 minutes ago, DaWg_LB. said:

 

https://brobible.com/sports/article/baker-mayfield-browns-jimmy-haslam/

 

Quote

He said Mayfield’s camp believes the dalliance with Watson, the three-time Pro Bowl quarterback, undermined Mayfield’s leadership ability and made his return untenable.

TL;DR

Mayfield is prideful here.

Listen, I get it, but this is pretty childish on Mayfield's end.