Jenkins to have Back surgery

[soulman]

31 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

Who's the "Yalie strongman" again?

Dieter Eiselen; 6'4"/320lbs.  https://www.chicagobears.com/team/players-roster/dieter-eiselen/  Weight lifter type.

If the only way to resolve the issue at OC now is to make a mid season move of either Whitehair or Daniels to OC all we'll do is create even less continuity while at the same time trying to improve our pass protection.  What's needed is to make a decision and stick with it.

Fox thought Whitehair's natural position should be OC.  If so then put him there and leave him there.  Pace and Nagy can brag all they want about versatile OL but that seems to me more of a detraction than a benefit when no one stay at one spot long enough for the OL to gain the cohesiveness needed to win more often than lose.  Then figure out what to do about LG and RG between Daniels, Bars, and Ifedi.

Someone once recommended a musician to me telling me that guy could play guitar, keyboards, and sax.  He could too.  He just couldn't play even one of them good enough to play live performances in a band.  He was strictly a bedroom and garage band type player.  Sometimes you gotta decide to be a master of at least one thing in your life and not a half assed poseur at several.

31 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

Well...they haven't been quite as bad as you're making them out to be. But there's been a lot of injuries, a lot of players in and out. Peters getting up to speed (he wasn't very good those first few games). Nagy was the playcaller the first four games. The team changed the starting quarterback. 

That's a lot to deal with. Especially when you're talking about an offensive line, where cohesion and consistency is key. 

You know something brother?  I'm sick and tired of excuses like these.  Ryan Pace has had 7 offseasons to build a competent OL and he hasn't done it.  Quite a few of these guys have been around for 3 seasons or longer now and this is season two for a couple more.  Our starters would be lucky to be backups elsewhere.

Even JA realized that to win big he'd need to rebuild his OL and that was one of his earlier moves as GM.  Through FA, a trade, and some drafting he built an OL that at least got us to a SB.  Can you honestly state that this current OL is even anywhere near that good?  I don't want to hear more excuses just get the job done.

Edited November 7, 2021 by soulman

[Heinz D.]

18 minutes ago, soulman said:

Dieter Eiselen; 6'4"/320lbs.  https://www.chicagobears.com/team/players-roster/dieter-eiselen/  Weight lifter type.

I probably read something about the dude, but obviously forgot all about him. It has him down as a center too, so the Bears have obviously given him reps there. He's also a mammoth of a guy, so he'd solve the biggest problem at center right away. Give him a try. Why not? 

18 minutes ago, soulman said:

You know something brother?  I'm sick and tired of excuses like these.  Ryan Pace has had 7 offseasons to build a competent OL and he hasn't done it.  

Well, he's made a ton of mistakes that have cost a lot of draft capital. He's also given out some bad contracts--too big, poorly structured, or both--that have hampered his ability to sign free agents. 

You know, totally typical, run-of-the-mill, everyday stuff in the life of an NFL GM. 

18 minutes ago, soulman said:

Even JA realized that to win big he'd need to rebuild his OL and that was one of his earlier moves as GM.  Through FA, a trade, and some drafting he built an OL that at least got us to a SB.  Can you honestly state that this current OL is even anywhere near that good?  

I don't know. A lot depends on whether Jenkins and Borom are the real deal, and aren't injury prone. 

[soulman]

1 hour ago, Heinz D. said:

I don't know. A lot depends on whether Jenkins and Borom are the real deal, and aren't injury prone. 

Have you been over dosing on your "happy pills" or something?  🤣

One came through the door needing back surgery and the other has missed half a dozen games with a leg injury.

That's not exactly a great start is it?

In fact I'd love to see the injury histories of other NFL OL vs ours.  One or more starters always seem to be sidelined.  What's with that?

[soulman]

1 hour ago, Heinz D. said:

You know, totally typical, run-of-the-mill, everyday stuff in the life of an NFL GM. 

Don't you mean for an NFL GM who was hired to turn the team around and hasn't?

I mean expecting some kind of a recovery from the record of the second worst HC in Bears history had to be expected.  You or I could very easily have done that much.  But we seem to have stalled out with the needle pointing to half empty or half full.  Lovie's gone now and that old schtick won't cut it now.

Trades like the ones for Mack and Fields are great provided you follow up by assuring they're supported by other moves that show your gaining ground on a championship.  Pace hasn't accomplished that.  Not even close and it's mostly been the OL and quite possibly coaching that's held this team back.  Same old, same old.

So do I believe Pace should be fired?  I dunno.  I still see some value in keeping him around to take Teddy Bears place in some fashion but I do feel we need a new GM to handle personnel decisions and matter related to the coaching staff.  He and Nagy became too joined at the hip which makes firing one and not the other all that more difficult.

I guess the next two months will give us our answers though.

[abstract_thought]

Bears are 32nd in the league in sacks allowed per pass attempt. They allow a sack on 12.2% of their passing attempts. The NFL average is 6.4%.

So yea... it has been that bad.

[Heinz D.]

4 hours ago, soulman said:

Have you been over dosing on your "happy pills" or something?  🤣

 

It doesn't mean they're injury-prone. That remains to be seen. It's way too early to make that determination.

I think that you also aren't really taking into account how good Jenkins was in college. And I get that, I do--now is a very frustrating time to be a Bears fan. 

4 hours ago, soulman said:

In fact I'd love to see the injury histories of other NFL OL vs ours.  One or more starters always seem to be sidelined.  What's with that?

I'll present a somewhat oversimplified argument, but...you need to spend a good bit of your resources on your offensive line if you want to have a good one. Pace hasn't done that. Drafting Kevin White over Laremy Tunsil is an egregious mistake. Drafting cornerback after cornerback after cornerback is an egregious mistake. 

4 hours ago, soulman said:

Don't you mean for an NFL GM who was hired to turn the team around and hasn't?

Yeah...I didn't switch to my sarcasm font. My bad. 😁

4 hours ago, soulman said:

So do I believe Pace should be fired?  I dunno.  I still see some value in keeping him around to take Teddy Bears place in some fashion but I do feel we need a new GM to handle personnel decisions and matter related to the coaching staff.  He and Nagy became too joined at the hip which makes firing one and not the other all that more difficult.

Pace should have been fired so long ago, it's beyond comical--it's pathetic. If the Bears want to give Philips a golden parachute and move Pace into that slot, fine. But, for the football gods sake, keep him far away from final roster decisions. 

1 hour ago, abstract_thought said:

Bears are 32nd in the league in sacks allowed per pass attempt. They allow a sack on 12.2% of their passing attempts. The NFL average is 6.4%.

So yea... it has been that bad.

How are they at running the ball, though?

Whatever, improvements need to be made, that's clear. But you seem to be arguing that stuff can't get better in the short term, and I don't agree with that.

That being said...would that mean a big turnaround for the team? I'm skeptical. I'd have to see it to believe it. 

[beardown3231]

1 minute ago, Heinz D. said:

It doesn't mean they're injury-prone. That remains to be seen. It's way too early to make that determination.

I think that you also aren't really taking into account how good Jenkins was in college. And I get that, I do--now is a very frustrating time to be a Bears fan. 

I'll present a somewhat oversimplified argument, but...you need to spend a good bit of your resources on your offensive line if you want to have a good one. Pace hasn't done that. Drafting Kevin White over Laremy Tunsil is an egregious mistake. Drafting cornerback after cornerback after cornerback is an egregious mistake. 

Yeah...I didn't switch to my sarcasm font. My bad. 😁

Pace should have been fired so long ago, it's beyond comical--it's pathetic. If the Bears want to give Philips a golden parachute and move Pace into that slot, fine. But, for the football gods sake, keep him far away from final roster decisions. 

How are they at running the ball, though?

Whatever, improvements need to be made, that's clear. But you seem to be arguing that stuff can't get better in the short term, and I don't agree with that.

That being said...would that mean a big turnaround for the team? I'm skeptical. I'd have to see it to believe it. 

I think he took Floyd over Tunsil, not White

[Heinz D.]

Just now, beardown3231 said:

I think he took Floyd over Tunsil, not White

Could be, now that you mention it.

Thanks.

A mistake, nonetheless. 

[soulman]

2 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

It doesn't mean they're injury-prone. That remains to be seen. It's way too early to make that determination.

I think that you also aren't really taking into account how good Jenkins was in college. And I get that, I do--now is a very frustrating time to be a Bears fan. 

Given my own experience with back injuries when a player shows up fresh out of college where he also had back issues and immediately requires back surgery I can't help but be pessimistic.  Especially since he's on OT.  In Jenkins case "injury prone" isn't the best description of my concern but chronic back issue may well be.  At the moment I'm higher on Borom than I am on Jenkins.  I see the possibility of another Kevin White fiasco there.

[soulman]

7 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

I'll present a somewhat oversimplified argument, but...you need to spend a good bit of your resources on your offensive line if you want to have a good one. Pace hasn't done that. Drafting Kevin White over Laremy Tunsil is an egregious mistake. Drafting cornerback after cornerback after cornerback is an egregious mistake. 

Don't believe you'd find a single soul here or around the NFL that would dispute this.  You build outward from the OL and DL but somehow Pace believed he could do it differently and we've been paying the price for it for 7 years now.

[soulman]

16 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

Pace should have been fired so long ago, it's beyond comical--it's pathetic. If the Bears want to give Philips a golden parachute and move Pace into that slot, fine. But, for the football gods sake, keep him far away from final roster decisions. 

This is at least part of the dilemma I face.  I want badly to get Teddy Bears away from anything having to do with football and football matters that if the Chicago Mob still held the kind of sway they did in the '50s and '60s I'd have put out a contract on ol' Teddy long ago and been thanked for it.

So.....if the only way that can happen is for Pace to ascend to some higher level so Teddy can work the levers of the politicians in Arlington Heights and Chicago then I'll live with it.  But he should not then also be the GM as far as personnel matters are concerned.  We need some fresh insight.

Edited November 7, 2021 by soulman

[abstract_thought]

34 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

How are they at running the ball, though?

Not that good... 23rd in the NFL in Adjusted Line Yards and 27th in the league in stuffs (TFLs against). They're 8th in the NFL in rushing, mostly on the talents of Montgomery and Fields, who both break tackles and stress defenders one-on-one.

37 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

Whatever, improvements need to be made, that's clear. But you seem to be arguing that stuff can't get better in the short term, and I don't agree with that.

I think things could get better in the short-term. But there's absolutely no guarantee that Borom or Jenkins will fix the problems with this offensive line.

But the future isn't my concern. My concern is how the Bears could draft a young QB with such a flimsy plan for building a quality OL around him. The plan was unnecessarily risky given the Bears' weakness at OT and the importance of a stable OL to the development of a QB. They bought a Ferrari and outfitted it with 4 spare tires from the junkyard.

[Heinz D.]

34 minutes ago, abstract_thought said:

But the future isn't my concern. My concern is how the Bears could draft a young QB with such a flimsy plan for building a quality OL around him. The plan was unnecessarily risky given the Bears' weakness at OT and the importance of a stable OL to the development of a QB. They bought a Ferrari and outfitted it with 4 spare tires from the junkyard.

That's the genius of Ryan Pace at work. One of the best ever. 

[Madmike90]

It's a great sign that we have activated Jenkins from IR to the practice window...even if he doesn't play at the end of the three week window it is still really good to see him healthy enough at this point to at least practice...bodes well for the future and I can't wait to see his toughness & aggressiveness out on the field cause we just don't have a guy with that sort of mentality up front outside of Peters.

[soulman]

1 hour ago, Madmike90 said:

It's a great sign that we have activated Jenkins from IR to the practice window...even if he doesn't play at the end of the three week window it is still really good to see him healthy enough at this point to at least practice...bodes well for the future and I can't wait to see his toughness & aggressiveness out on the field cause we just don't have a guy with that sort of mentality up front outside of Peters.

I'm still vary wary about his condition and conditioning.  If he can play at all this year I'm gonna be very surprised.