Jenkins to have Back surgery

[abstract_thought]

Not sure if this has been discussed: https://heavy.com/sports/chicago-bears/teven-jenkins-draft-back-chiefs-titans/

Quote

“On the night of the draft as I was sitting in Cleveland and he started falling down the draft board and teams that needed offensive tackles weren’t drafting him. I can remember texting someone from the Tennessee Titans and was like: ‘Why aren’t you taking Teven Jenkins?’ And he replied back to me, and I can send a screenshot of this if I can blur some names out, and he said: ‘Back injury.’ So teams knew about it, and it was the reason he fell at least for a couple of the teams I spoke to.”

Miller also confirmed Nagy’s former mentor, Andy Reid’s team passed on Jenkins for that same reason.

 

[soulman]

5 hours ago, abstract_thought said:

Not sure if this has been discussed: https://heavy.com/sports/chicago-bears/teven-jenkins-draft-back-chiefs-titans/

 

Thank you for posting this.  I've taken some heat over comments I've posted about Jenkins and that's fine.  I'm a big boy and I can take being questioned over comments based on my own personal experience.  But I'm not a liar and my own experience isn't exactly without value.

Miller immediately challenged Nagy’s comments about Jenkins’ pre-existing back injury having nothing to do with his recent surgery. “That’s like saying your DUI wasn’t because of your drinking problem. It makes no sense. I mean, come on. These guys get to stand behind a podium and lie to us?” Miller said, sounding slightly aghast. “It (his surgery) was because of that.”

This was a point I made as well.  Back issues are far more typically interlinked than "something new" that has nothing to do with any previous injury as Matt Nagy was trying to sell.  What's worse is the Bears have known this all along but are looking to avoid criticism over the pick by lying.

And here again some have insisted that just because Brad Biggs "claimed" he'd spoken with other teams who denied knowing about any back injuries that would have caused teams to hesitate drafting Jenkins that also appears to be untrue.  Biggsy is not exactly what I would call and independent unbiased source.  He's a Tribune Bears Beat reporter who needs to stay in the good graces of Halas Hall to assure his access.

Herein lies the primary issue: Jenkins’ back issue was an issue for multiple other teams — teams that have recently made winning a common occurrence. But it wasn’t an issue for the Bears, who, instead of letting him fall to them in the second round at No. 52, (which very well could have happened if so many other teams were unsure about him). The Bears could have waited and taken the best available player –which could have possibly been Jenkins if he was still there — but instead, the Bears traded up to get him.

So we now know of at least two playoff teams badly in need of OL help who passed on Jenkins in round one but not how many may also have passed on him in round two simply because that decision never got to them once Pace traded up to take him.  When you add all of this up I'd say it's pretty convincing evidence that there were red flags on him for injuries that either lowered his ranking or eliminated him from consideration.

Chicago sent a third-round pick, the second-round pick, and a sixth-round pick (No. 204) in order to move up to take Jenkins. They got Jenkins with the 39th overall pick along with a fifth-rounder (151st overall), but they sacrificed valuable draft capital to take a risk on a player many teams seemed to already know wasn’t going to be hitting the field and contributing anytime soon. It’s the latest in a series of questionable draft decisions by Pace, and if it eventually works out, fine. But if it doesn’t, the Jenkins pick could haunt the Bears for a while.

We don't know what the final results will be and we may not know for several more years provided Jenkins returns to play at all.  But when I've written that Pace's misses and outright failed picks tend to offset his "finds" and his successes this is as good an example of that as any.  How much better might this team be now had Pace gambled less and stuck with safer picks rather than gambling on his perceived "bargains"?

Edited September 9, 2021 by soulman

[Madmike90]

https://bearswire.usatoday.com/2021/11/05/bears-teven-jenkins-injury-running-friday-practice-week-9/

Jenkins running hill sprints in practice...have to wonder if he could be avaliable following the bye week...if so it could be a massive upgrade on that OL.

[soulman]

1 hour ago, Madmike90 said:

https://bearswire.usatoday.com/2021/11/05/bears-teven-jenkins-injury-running-friday-practice-week-9/

Jenkins running hill sprints in practice...have to wonder if he could be avaliable following the bye week...if so it could be a massive upgrade on that OL.

My guess is it's nothing more than conditioning after having been nearly a year since he's actually played any football.  Remember, he didn't even finish the year out last season.  He skipped the last 3-4 games beginning in November 2020.

I'd be pretty shocked if Jenkins can play at all this year and if so I'd give it at least another month of contact in practices just to test how his back will hold up and how much strength he may have lost while he was out.  He can't have done any lifting.

As it stands Peters is doing a fairly good job at LT while Borom is beginning to get his feet wet at RT.  Borom handled his first start pretty well so let's see how he does against Pitt.  If he repeats what he did against SF we're good at OT for now.

My greatest concern with Jenkins is whether or not his back issues are career ending.  The only way we'll know that is when he can play at full strength not from running a hill simply to begin the reconditioning process to play again.

[Heinz D.]

On 9/9/2021 at 2:23 AM, soulman said:

We don't know what the final results will be and we may not know for several more years provided Jenkins returns to play at all.  But when I've written that Pace's misses and outright failed picks tend to offset his "finds" and his successes this is as good an example of that as any.  How much better might this team be now had Pace gambled less and stuck with safer picks rather than gambling on his perceived "bargains"?

Yeah, the worst part is Pace could have made the trade and taken Cosmi instead, and that would have been a fine choice. It's terrible that he gave up so much for a guy that others had red flags on, but there's still a lot of upside to Jenkins. And I do think Jenkins plays this year. I think (assume? hope?) that is why Pace didn't do anything at the trade deadline. 

[Madmike90]

7 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

Yeah, the worst part is Pace could have made the trade and taken Cosmi instead, and that would have been a fine choice. It's terrible that he gave up so much for a guy that others had red flags on, but there's still a lot of upside to Jenkins. And I do think Jenkins plays this year. I think (assume? hope?) that is why Pace didn't do anything at the trade deadline. 

Cosmi has played well in Washington this year (best friend is a WFT fan and he is happy) but I would still place a wager that Jenkins is a better linemen when all is said in done...I think he will be a good LT...and even better right...and if we every move him inside to LG in a power scheme I think he would be truly elite.

[Heinz D.]

9 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

Cosmi has played well in Washington this year (best friend is a WFT fan and he is happy) but I would still place a wager that Jenkins is a better linemen when all is said in done...I think he will be a good LT...and even better right...and if we every move him inside to LG in a power scheme I think he would be truly elite.

I think Jenkins had better tape than Cosmi, for sure. Let's hope his back issues get resolved. (And soon!) 

[soulman]

2 hours ago, Heinz D. said:

Yeah, the worst part is Pace could have made the trade and taken Cosmi instead, and that would have been a fine choice. It's terrible that he gave up so much for a guy that others had red flags on, but there's still a lot of upside to Jenkins. And I do think Jenkins plays this year. I think (assume? hope?) that is why Pace didn't do anything at the trade deadline. 

We didn't have enough cap to do anything at the trade deadline anyway except sell and no one was doing much buying.

[Sugashane]

I would love to see Jenkins play this year since that is going to be another positive for the next GM/HC. Potential franchise QB and bookends to the OL being in place makes for a solid start for them.

BUT... if he shuts it down for the year to protect himself and get to 100% I am more than content with that too. The biggest thing is to think longterm with him. This is a wasted year anyway.

 

Peters has exceeded my expectations. I thought for sure injuries would flare up but he has been solid when not completely outmatched like in CLE - and that was on Nagy/Lazor/Castillo not him. He's been a damn good signing. I just wish we could bump someone to OG and let Whitehair or Daniels kick into C. Mustipher just isn't strong enough. He plays like a less athletic Grasu way too much lately.

[Heinz D.]

7 hours ago, Sugashane said:

Peters has exceeded my expectations. I thought for sure injuries would flare up but he has been solid when not completely outmatched like in CLE - and that was on Nagy/Lazor/Castillo not him. He's been a damn good signing. I just wish we could bump someone to OG and let Whitehair or Daniels kick into C. Mustipher just isn't strong enough. He plays like a less athletic Grasu way too much lately.

I think Peters was so rushed into the lineup that he's had to play his way back into shape...and that process is still ongoing. He continues to improve.

And yeah, Mustipher is an enormous problem. Last season someone, I believe it was @dll2000, commented on how Mustipher would often get overwhelmed at the point of attack, and while I couldn't totally disagree with that, I figured that was a problem that would get better in time. It hasn't. In fact, I think Mustipher has looked worse this year, and seems to be regressing by the week. It's probably the biggest issue on offense right now. I said it in some other thread--find another center. Poach a guy off a practice squad. Do whatever. It basically would have to be an improvement. Or, move a guy you already have to guard, put Whitehair at center. 

[Sugashane]

4 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

I think Peters was so rushed into the lineup that he's had to play his way back into shape...and that process is still ongoing. He continues to improve.

And yeah, Mustipher is an enormous problem. Last season someone, I believe it was @dll2000, commented on how Mustipher would often get overwhelmed at the point of attack, and while I couldn't totally disagree with that, I figured that was a problem that would get better in time. It hasn't. In fact, I think Mustipher has looked worse this year, and seems to be regressing by the week. It's probably the biggest issue on offense right now. I said it in some other thread--find another center. Poach a guy off a practice squad. Do whatever. It basically would have to be an improvement. Or, move a guy you already have to guard, put Whitehair at center. 

I was lower on Mustipher than most, but I also thought he would get better with a full offseason and another year in the strength and conditioning program (which might be another major topic of concern) but you're dead on. He ABSOLUTELY has gotten worse. Even if we are bargain bin hunting other teams for their Centers we should at least move Whitehair over and kick Bars in at G. Mustipher has been a massive liability and we have seen how defenses attack head on his left side abd blitz the C gap too. Whitehair either has to help Mustipher and give a lane or Mustipher gets walked back into the pocket. They have even had the DE crash in while blitzing wide and Peters let the DE cross his face because Whitehair SHOULD have been there to pick him up. But he was trying to bail out Baby Huey.

A damn mess. I'm torn because I want a terrible season WAY more than I want a 8-9 or 9-8 season. That is the teams' ceiling with Nagy, and I want to move on to have a real shot of winning. The season is perfectly going the way to see Nagy replaced, but dammit it still sucks to see.

[dll2000]

11 hours ago, Heinz D. said:

I think Peters was so rushed into the lineup that he's had to play his way back into shape...and that process is still ongoing. He continues to improve.

And yeah, Mustipher is an enormous problem. Last season someone, I believe it was @dll2000, commented on how Mustipher would often get overwhelmed at the point of attack, and while I couldn't totally disagree with that, I figured that was a problem that would get better in time. It hasn't. In fact, I think Mustipher has looked worse this year, and seems to be regressing by the week. It's probably the biggest issue on offense right now. I said it in some other thread--find another center. Poach a guy off a practice squad. Do whatever. It basically would have to be an improvement. Or, move a guy you already have to guard, put Whitehair at center. 

Peters misses some blocks, but he makes a lot of wow plays too.  He just destroys people at times.  No one else on Nears does that at any position.

That makes a difference in football.  You punch someone real hard and people remember it and it changes their behavior.

If he had been with Bears throughout his career he might be one of my all time favorites.

[dll2000]

Once you hit a certain age you aren’t going to get that much stronger without PEDs.

 If you have been working out hard through college you will still get gains, but they aren’t going to be monumental unless you came into league at 20. 

PEDs change everything though and are a whole different ball game.  They work.   You have to be both willing to do it, risking long term health and know how to get away with it and beat the testing.  I wouldn’t do it.  But I can see why guys would be tempted with millions at stake.  

[soulman]

Plans for 2022.

1) Either draft or find a legit OC in the offseason.  Mustipher ain't it and I don't know if we have anyone on the roster who is.  I have no idea why Daniels who was drafted as an OC can't be moved back other than for what ever reason Pace seems to have insisted he play OG.  Whitehair is listed as Mustipher's backup yet every time we've moved him from LG the OL gets worse not better.  Maybe they should try that "Yalie" strongman at OC.

2) Make Jason Peters an OL Coach with a special assignment to develop Borom and Jenkins into clones of him.  He's about 5 over his past due date yet still he's keeps on tickin' like a Timex.  The OL has to be fixed and fixed now.  There is no way Fields can develop and reach the top of his game with an OL as poorly coordinated as this current one.  They don't seem to be poor athletes so what is it?  Nagy's schemes?  Poor coaching?  What?

[Heinz D.]

31 minutes ago, soulman said:

1) Either draft or find a legit OC in the offseason.  Mustipher ain't it and I don't know if we have anyone on the roster who is.  I have no idea why Daniels who was drafted as an OC can't be moved back other than for what ever reason Pace seems to have insisted he play OG.  Whitehair is listed as Mustipher's backup yet every time we've moved him from LG the OL gets worse not better.  Maybe they should try that "Yalie" strongman at OC.

I'd rather they try to solve the problem at center right now, as it's, IMO, a pretty big deal. And that whole situation with Daniels has always puzzled me. They started him off at guard because they were happy with Whitehair , and claimed they sort of wanted Daniels to get his feet wet without the added pressure of being the center. Okay...weird, but whatever, fair enough, right? Then they move him to center and he struggles, so they pull him about five seconds later and they've never moved him back. Full disclosure--if I haven't shared it before, most of the time I absolutely hate when coaches take college linemen and change their position. It almost always seems to screw up the player, at least temporarily, and it makes me wonder why the kid was drafted in the first place. There are some exceptions where it seems to be the right call...but, by and large, it's just dumb.

Anyhoo...maybe when Ifedi heals up, they can put him back at RG, leave Borom at RT, choose from Daniels or Whitehair at C, and put the other guy at LG? I dunno. I'd like them to find another center though, anyway.

Who's the "Yalie strongman" again?

31 minutes ago, soulman said:

2) Make Jason Peters an OL Coach with a special assignment to develop Borom and Jenkins into clones of him.  He's about 5 over his past due date yet still he's keeps on tickin' like a Timex.  The OL has to be fixed and fixed now.  There is no way Fields can develop and reach the top of his game with an OL as poorly coordinated as this current one.  They don't seem to be poor athletes so what is it?  Nagy's schemes?  Poor coaching?  What?

Well...they haven't been quite as bad as you're making them out to be. But there's been a lot of injuries, a lot of players in and out. Peters getting up to speed (he wasn't very good those first few games). Nagy was the playcaller the first four games. The team changed the starting quarterback. 

That's a lot to deal with. Especially when you're talking about an offensive line, where cohesion and consistency is key.