Jenkins to have Back surgery

[G08]

28 minutes ago, abstract_thought said:

 

It would be a win if this guy could become an NFL-caliber OL, let alone a LT. Based on his college resume, he doesn't have the movement to play there.

Keep in mind he played at 352 lbs in college and is down to 322 now. That makes a difference in mobility/fluidity.

I should add that Castillo wants him up around 332.

Edited August 20, 2021 by G08

[soulman]

1 hour ago, RunningVaccs said:

I'm really torn right now, as I feel like putting Fields behind this line is not going to make him better at going through his progressions (not that I think he's especially bad at it, but the smart people all say he could be better)  , but I also feel like his mobility is far better than Dalton's so he may be more successful.  Season outlook for me is mostly tied to not ruining Fields. Getting killed back there is one way to do that., otherwise I'm not sure what holds him back from starting besides a bunch of bad practoices in the preseason.

IMHO until Nagy starts giving Fields at least 1/3 of his practice reps with the starters he won't be 100% as prepared as he might be if he does have to take over for Dalton.  All it would take is a hard sack and a concussion to sideline Dalton for that game and at least one more.  Then Nagy has no choice but to bring in Fields to play with starters he's never practiced with.  On what planet in the entire universe does this make any sense?

The only preparation of Fields to start that I can see is based on him starting in 2022.  Nagy is running the same deal they ran in KC after they drafted Mahomes.  Smith started while the more talented Mahomes watched.  If he's dead set against using Fields now and plans to stick with Dalton for as long as he can at least prepare the kid to take over should Dalton get injured.  I don't see that anywhere at all.

[The_Romen]

11 hours ago, soulman said:

Maybe we finally get lucky for a change and Borom turns out to be a real find like David Bakhtiari (4th round pick) has been for Green Bay.

It's part of what makes this whole thing so frustrating for me. GB is constantly drafting backup OL in various rounds every. Single. Draft. Whether it's a strength or a weakness, they're taking chances.

Why does Pace have to amputate one part of the team because he refuses to just  clean and wrap the sliver on another part?

[The_Romen]

2 hours ago, abstract_thought said:

 

It would be a win if this guy could become an NFL-caliber OL, let alone a LT. Based on his college resume, he doesn't have the movement to play there.

Doubting that he can become much, hopefully he can produce something...

The biggest way the Bears can help the OL out is to get the run game/PA pass going. Let them be the physical, giant, man-eaters that Castillo loves and then Dalton/Fields can dice em up with quick passes.

Biggest thing standing in the way of that is Nagy and his stubbornness.

[soulman]

1 hour ago, G08 said:

For the nerds:

A total of 137 National Football League players were identified as having an LDH necessitating treatment. Ninety-six players underwent surgical treatment with a lumbar discectomy, and 34 athletes were treated nonoperatively. Seventy-eight percent of athletes treated surgically for an LDH returned to play in at least 1 NFL game. Players treated surgically played in statistically more games post-treatment (36) than those treated nonoperatively (20) (P < 0.002). There was no significant difference between the Performance Score preoperatively and postoperatively over the length of the players' careers. Age at diagnosis, body mass index, Pro Bowl appearances, and position played did not significantly affect outcome.

Conclusion: The data in this study suggests that even though a lumbar discectomy has career-threatening implications, a large percentage of NFL athletes return to play at competitive levels. Despite the general opinion of many NFL general managers, players who are able to complete the rigorous rehabilitation required to return to play after lumbar discectomy can expect excellent performance-based outcomes after surgery.

Good post but as what you've underlined points out any player who hopes to return to his previous level of play is in for a long and arduous rehab that in most cases would keep them sidelined for at least one season.  Some will heal faster and return sooner but at this point in time we don't know how Jenkins will respond.

I can also point out in those stats that 22% of those treated surgically never played again.  This aligns quite well with what I've learned and that is roughly 80% of back surgeries will have a positive outcome.  Roughly 20% will not.  And this comes directly from the surgeons who treated my Dad and those I have discussed my own back issues with.

Also of note is that players with surgically repaired backs played in statistically more games yet 36 games is little more than two full seasons.  We can relate this to a former Bear LT, HOF'er Jimbo Covert who could only manage two more seasons and 30 games after his back surgery.  So I'll stick with my previous stance about the serious nature of back surgery.

There is very little good that can come of it and if it does not end a players career at the very least there is a very good chance that it will shorten it significantly.  Based on this our ongoing problems at OT are far from over and if he's smart Pace will keep drafting OTs until he finally makes a smart choice and gets guys who can stabilize the position.  I fear Jenkins will not be one of them.

[soulman]

1 hour ago, G08 said:

Keep in mind he played at 352 lbs in college and is down to 322 now. That makes a difference in mobility/fluidity.

I should add that Castillo wants him up around 332.

This could make a difference relative to his range and ability to setup properly.  The rest will be up to Castillo to coach into him and having a mentor like Peters won't hurt either.  IMHO we have to try because also IMHO we will be very lucky if Jenkins can return to even play RT.

[soulman]

12 minutes ago, The_Romen said:

It's part of what makes this whole thing so frustrating for me. GB is constantly drafting backup OL in various rounds every. Single. Draft. Whether it's a strength or a weakness, they're taking chances.

Why does Pace have to amputate one part of the team because he refuses to just  clean and wrap the sliver on another part?

Pace and others before him have brutally ignored the OL many many years.  Now it's coming home to roost again.

Leno and Massie were never all that good but for whatever reason Pace never spent enough draft capital on bringing in possible replacements and one reason for this has been his habit of trading away mid round picks where many career NFL OL are drafted.

He seems to have realized the importance of building from the bottom up by putting a talented and deep front seven on the field defensively but with the exception of addressing the interior OL positions he's failed to do that same at OT.  Jenkins is "damaged good" and may never play one NFL game let alone be "The Guy" at LT and Larry Borom is pretty much a hit or miss type player.

The only way to extricate ourselves from this dilemma is to keep drafting Jenkin's and Boroms every year until we finally stabilize OT.  This is what we did in 1981 (Keith Van Horne) and 1983 (Jimbo Covert) to build the '80s Bruise Brother OL around.  Name me one truly successful OT draft pick we've had in the nearly 40 years since?

The last time we went to a Super Bowl nearly the entire line was bought dearly in FA but at least JA knew he had to do something to fix it.  Pace hasn't even been all that successful doing that and these day you can't really afford to do what Angelo did bringing in Tate and Miller at OT and Ruben Brown at OG.  In this market you have to draft OL and build your own out of your guys.

[StLunatic88]

2 hours ago, G08 said:

Keep in mind he played at 352 lbs in college and is down to 322 now. That makes a difference in mobility/fluidity.

I should add that Castillo wants him up around 332.

Yes, ans he was very athletic at that weight. He has never been some lumbering blob, but he used that size to just lean on guys alot to wear them down.

At a much more manageable weight, his agility should have a nice boost as well. Then if he transforms even further into a functionally muscular 330+ he should be a real talent on one of the Tackle spots.

A bit of rose-colored glasses from me? Maybe. But he has pretty much handled SEC level talent his entire career without much issue. And its not like he had studs next to him.

[G08]

9 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

Yes, ans he was very athletic at that weight. He has never been some lumbering blob, but he used that size to just lean on guys alot to wear them down.

At a much more manageable weight, his agility should have a nice boost as well. Then if he transforms even further into a functionally muscular 330+ he should be a real talent on one of the Tackle spots.

A bit of rose-colored glasses from me? Maybe. But he has pretty much handled SEC level talent his entire career without much issue. And its not like he had studs next to him.

Gave up 0 sacks at RT against Alabama; that's a skin on the wall any way one dices it.

[G08]

39 minutes ago, soulman said:

Good post but as what you've underlined points out any player who hopes to return to his previous level of play is in for a long and arduous rehab that in most cases would keep them sidelined for at least one season.  Some will heal faster and return sooner but at this point in time we don't know how Jenkins will respond.

I can also point out in those stats that 22% of those treated surgically never played again.  This aligns quite well with what I've learned and that is roughly 80% of back surgeries will have a positive outcome.  Roughly 20% will not.  And this comes directly from the surgeons who treated my Dad and those I have discussed my own back issues with.

Also of note is that players with surgically repaired backs played in statistically more games yet 36 games is little more than two full seasons.  We can relate this to a former Bear LT, HOF'er Jimbo Covert who could only manage two more seasons and 30 games after his back surgery.  So I'll stick with my previous stance about the serious nature of back surgery.

There is very little good that can come of it and if it does not end a players career at the very least there is a very good chance that it will shorten it significantly.  Based on this our ongoing problems at OT are far from over and if he's smart Pace will keep drafting OTs until he finally makes a smart choice and gets guys who can stabilize the position.  I fear Jenkins will not be one of them.

Yes but keep in mind, this is a 23 year old with 0 NFL wear-and-tear on his body. Much different than, say, a 28 or 29 year old.

If there were no issues during the surgery and he rehabs properly, I am of the opinion he 'should be fine' moving forward. 

[dll2000]

2 hours ago, G08 said:

For the nerds:

A total of 137 National Football League players were identified as having an LDH necessitating treatment. Ninety-six players underwent surgical treatment with a lumbar discectomy, and 34 athletes were treated nonoperatively. Seventy-eight percent of athletes treated surgically for an LDH returned to play in at least 1 NFL game. Players treated surgically played in statistically more games post-treatment (36) than those treated nonoperatively (20) (P < 0.002). There was no significant difference between the Performance Score preoperatively and postoperatively over the length of the players' careers. Age at diagnosis, body mass index, Pro Bowl appearances, and position played did not significantly affect outcome.

Conclusion: The data in this study suggests that even though a lumbar discectomy has career-threatening implications, a large percentage of NFL athletes return to play at competitive levels. Despite the general opinion of many NFL general managers, players who are able to complete the rigorous rehabilitation required to return to play after lumbar discectomy can expect excellent performance-based outcomes after surgery.

Interesting.   

Thanks for posting.   

Always scariest (IMO) amongst physical injuries you are talking about your back or brain.

Secondary is feet for large people.  That never seems to get better.  

Then achilles - those suck.  

Then shoulders.

Then knees.

You are never 100% again after those things need surgery.   You may be good again, but it isn't the same.  

Seems most everything else you can recover from in time.

 

 

[HuskieBear]

2 hours ago, soulman said:

Good post but as what you've underlined points out any player who hopes to return to his previous level of play is in for a long and arduous rehab that in most cases would keep them sidelined for at least one season.  Some will heal faster and return sooner but at this point in time we don't know how Jenkins will respond.

I can also point out in those stats that 22% of those treated surgically never played again.  This aligns quite well with what I've learned and that is roughly 80% of back surgeries will have a positive outcome.  Roughly 20% will not.  And this comes directly from the surgeons who treated my Dad and those I have discussed my own back issues with.

Also of note is that players with surgically repaired backs played in statistically more games yet 36 games is little more than two full seasons.  We can relate this to a former Bear LT, HOF'er Jimbo Covert who could only manage two more seasons and 30 games after his back surgery.  So I'll stick with my previous stance about the serious nature of back surgery.

There is very little good that can come of it and if it does not end a players career at the very least there is a very good chance that it will shorten it significantly.  Based on this our ongoing problems at OT are far from over and if he's smart Pace will keep drafting OTs until he finally makes a smart choice and gets guys who can stabilize the position.  I fear Jenkins will not be one of them.

the statistics are a little hard to decipher without context. what is the age range of these players? Caleb Farley had a discectomy this offseason, and by all accounts is healthy down in Tennessee right now. of the 22% that never played again, where were they in their careers - were they guys that had already been in the league for 10+ years and were fighting their body to try and get back, or had the procedure then decided to just hang it up? there's a lot more involved in this study than either they came back or didnt

[Sugashane]

4 hours ago, RunningVaccs said:

Lots of moving pieces to it, but I was really impressed with the cohesive line the Bears made for a while last season and feel that credit is due to Castillo.  They were certainly helped by Trubisky's most positive trait (being able to run around behind a collapsing line while he counts the linebackers a fourth time) but given the hash he was given I thought they were a pleasant surprise.  Guess he has to do it again now, so if it works a second time it'll be a strong endorsement.

I'm really torn right now, as I feel like putting Fields behind this line is not going to make him better at going through his progressions (not that I think he's especially bad at it, but the smart people all say he could be better)  , but I also feel like his mobility is far better than Dalton's so he may be more successful.  Season outlook for me is mostly tied to not ruining Fields. Getting killed back there is one way to do that., otherwise I'm not sure what holds him back from starting besides a bunch of bad practoices in the preseason.

Castillo definitely was a step of from HH, I'm just waiting to see if he can develop someone or not. Daniels had a pretty good stretch for a few games and Ifedi has a small stretch where he looked really good, but I want to see someone actually grow under him. Whitehair, Leno, and Massie all played either worse last year than two years ago - is that due to age with the last two? Maybe. But no one has been seen actually improving much yet. Mustipher was a pleasant surprise, so I'm giving Castillo credit for that, but lets see if Mustipher, Daniels, Whitehair, and Ifedi play better this year than last. I think it is reasonable to expect at least 3 to since the bar isn't crazy high.

Fields seems more than smart enough to, keeping his aggression in check is the big thing to me. He has the talent to make any throw and he knows it. Cutler did too but too seldom reigned it in early on. I want Fields to really start going through his progressions and I want to force Kmet to be who he was drafted to be too. Fields has had a good deal of success with TEs so this is the best way to do it, and if Nagy can keep a balanced playcall consistently he should be fine.

If Nagy can't or Nagy abandons the run regularly again then Pace should see he isn't the one Chicago needs to run the show.

[abstract_thought]

4 hours ago, HuskieBear said:

the statistics are a little hard to decipher without context. what is the age range of these players? Caleb Farley had a discectomy this offseason, and by all accounts is healthy down in Tennessee right now. of the 22% that never played again, where were they in their careers - were they guys that had already been in the league for 10+ years and were fighting their body to try and get back, or had the procedure then decided to just hang it up? there's a lot more involved in this study than either they came back or didnt

One thing I'd like to know is whether a history of previous back injury had any statistical difference. Because while Jenkins may not be beat-up from 10 years in the NFL, he's already dealt with injuries in his career.

[soulman]

7 hours ago, G08 said:

Yes but keep in mind, this is a 23 year old with 0 NFL wear-and-tear on his body. Much different than, say, a 28 or 29 year old.

If there were no issues during the surgery and he rehabs properly, I am of the opinion he 'should be fine' moving forward. 

I'll be happy to hope for the best while fearing the worst and save myself any future disappointment.