Preseason Week 2 - Bears vs Tru Believers

[blkwdw13]

1 hour ago, abstract_thought said:

Then again - if we acknowledge all of those things for Shanahan, we have to also acknowledge the QB situation here in Chicago. Who wouldn't take their offensive personnel over ours?

I agree that he's better than Nagy. But the way some Bears fans talk about him, you'd think he could turn Joe Webb into Joe Montana. Shanahan hasn't earned that respect just yet.

So you would take Mullens and Beathard over the Bears QBs of the last few seasons.

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

1 hour ago, AZBearsFan said:

 

I think we got a decent glimpse of what Nagy wants the offense to be in 2018 with a lot of movement, jet sweep action, misdirection, intricate play design inside the 10, schemed shot plays, etc. I think he lost confidence in running them with Mitch, and coupled with an overall lack of team speed just went into a shell with a lot of it.

 

Yeah, plus a whole lot of the cutesy stuff that gets on Sportscenter when it works, or takes the air out of Solider Field when it doesn't.  

Whats funny is looking at the 2017 Cheifs vs the previous year. They had a short game passer all 2016 and then all of a sudden got super efficient with the deep ball, lots of speed at skill positions.  Better personnel than the Bears in 18, but what if that's Nagy's game he's just felt the personnel getting further and further away from what he wants to do?  Then again, if that's the case, how the heck do you sit a QB who's specialty is deep ball timing and accuracy?  The Bears have more speed at WR (barely) than they used to, so maybe Nagy can start to run what he wants, at least when Fields takes over. But then again, is there going to be time for any of those plays to develop while Arlington Hambright is out there getting splatted?  It's weird, I find I can always come up with an excuse for Nagy without really trying to.  He does seem like a likable guy as Soul (I think) said on another topic, but when is the offensive mind goign to field at least a middle of the pack offense? 

[soulman]

2 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

The bolded part made me legitimately laugh.

I think we got a decent glimpse of what Nagy wants the offense to be in 2018 with a lot of movement, jet sweep action, misdirection, intricate play design inside the 10, schemed shot plays, etc. I think he lost confidence in running them with Mitch, and coupled with an overall lack of team speed just went into a shell with a lot of it.

He’s a Reid disciple - I picture the pre-snap movement Reid uses with Hill and Hardman to be something Nagy wants to use with Mooney, Goodwin and/or Byrd. It just wasn’t going to work the same way with Anthony Miller. Off of that action you open up off guard, trap and counter runs, quick dart throws to a slanting TE, shovel pass, play action, bootleg, etc., almost none of which we’ve had at our disposal. Defensive conflict like is created with that action with that speed creates a ton of opportunities for the chunk plays Fields and even Dalton can hit that Mitch just couldn’t.

It doesn’t have to play out like Madden on rookie mode for it to matter - adding one or two significant chunk plays per game and an extra 3rd down conversion or two is enough to make a significant difference both on the scoreboard and how we’re defended by our opponents especially after we get Fields’ running ability added into the equation. With improved confidence in the QB and speed at WR, regardless of which QB that is, I think (hope) we see more of that type of stuff come out from Nagy. To me that stuff is a lot of what makes KC’s offense as consistently effective as it is.  

I'd like to believe you and although I'm a Coloradan via Chicago > Wisconsin > Colorado I may have slept over night once in Missouri and caught a "Show Me" kinda attitude.

I hate the let's bring in a new HC process as much as GMcC seems to especially when we seem to have built a very good staff of assistants and coordinators but it's still show me it works.

[Sugashane]

3 hours ago, abstract_thought said:

Then again - if we acknowledge all of those things for Shanahan, we have to also acknowledge the QB situation here in Chicago. Who wouldn't take their offensive personnel over ours?

I agree that he's better than Nagy. But the way some Bears fans talk about him, you'd think he could turn Joe Webb into Joe Montana. Shanahan hasn't earned that respect just yet.

Skill positions I'd take Chicago in a heartbeat. Kittle and ARob are clearly the only top guys but their skill positions kinda suck imo. OL is definitely better though.

Agree. Some take it too far. Seeing what he and Nagy can do this year with their young signalcallers should help show if they warrant praise. 

[Sugashane]

2 hours ago, blkwdw13 said:

So you would take Mullens and Beathard over the Bears QBs of the last few seasons.

Well... We might have had Lawrence or the slew of picks available for a small move down if so. 😅

[AZBearsFan]

1 hour ago, soulman said:

I'd like to believe you and although I'm a Coloradan via Chicago > Wisconsin > Colorado I may have slept over night once in Missouri and caught a "Show Me" kinda attitude.

I hate the let's bring in a new HC process as much as GMcC seems to especially when we seem to have built a very good staff of assistants and coordinators but it's still show me it works.

I’m with you, but every offense fails without talent, especially when the lack of talent is at the QB position. That should be rectified now. No more excuses. 

[HuskieBear]

1 hour ago, AZBearsFan said:

I’m with you, but every offense fails without talent, especially when the lack of talent is at the QB position. That should be rectified now. No more excuses. 

i agree. our offense has been bad since Nagy got here, but we haven't exactly rolled out a QB that can elevate an offense. Good players make schemes better. Everyone tried to copy Seattle's defense, but those teams didn't have thomas, wagner, sherman, bennett, wright, and irvin. 

Nate Tice was on Hoge and Jahns and made a good point about Dalton and Fields. It's like a play that is blocked for a 4 yard gain. Dalton will get those 4 yards, but that's it. Fields can take that same place and score on it. Fields gives us the best chance of elevating our offense to the next level, even if Dalton might have a better chance at running it overall. 

[JAF-N72EX]

On 8/25/2021 at 5:20 AM, soulman said:

Maybe the most annoying fact, and I'm sure you agree, if the rinse and repeat dysfunction and lack of discipline that invariably leads to penalties and blown assignments.

The dysfunction part I agree with, but only about 50/50 tho because bad QB play often leads to dysfunction on offense. Mitch/Foles deserve their fair share of accountability in this too. Nagy has designed several plays where his skill position players were wide open and Mitch/Foles either don't see them or throw an inaccurate ball. (Yes, I know Nagy chose both Foles and Dalton too. Nagy's faults at QBs in terms of decisions and lack of development have been well documented by myself, but I'll save that convo for another day).

I have alot of issue with Nagy but lack of discipline isn't one of them. In fact, it's been one of Nagy's "highlights" during his tenure here and one of the reasons I still believe he's a good HC but also still growing/learning.

The Bears have had one of the lowest drop rates in the NFL over the last 3 years (which is a farcry from 2017). The Bears have also been one of the most disciplined teams in the league over the last 3 seasons with a combined total of 356 flags, which is the 7th lowest in the NFL, and the greatest NFL HC of all time (Belly) is first with 319 and KC is dead last with 473.  Last season was the worst season by far and the Bears were still only 15th despite all the BS non-calls on Mack and total BS calls Fuller.

We went from being the 13th most penalized team in the league from 2014-2017 to the 7th lowest from 2018-2020 under Nagy. Hate him if you want but lack of discipline should never be one of the reasons as to why.

Again, your looking at a week 2 preseason game (where there were alot of penalties from backup players) and running with it while the topic is fresh while also portraying that these numerous stupid penalties have been a theme  throughout Nagy's regime in the regular season and that simply isn't the case.

RE: If we have an alarming number of penalties with vets in the reg season then I'll start worrying about it. But until then, I'll only worry about something when there's a need to.

 

On 8/25/2021 at 5:20 AM, soulman said:

Second week of preseason stuff then bleeds over into regular season any time you have your guys failing to get it right.

So if the players "get it right" in week 2 of preseason then it should bleed over into the reg season too right? See the 0-16 Lions and Browns.

How do you know who is and who isn't getting it? IT'S PRESEASON LOL. As fans, we can only get so much from it. PS is for coaches and players. That's my whole point! See my post above that you quoted for further details.

 

[JAF-N72EX]

On 8/25/2021 at 5:40 AM, soulman said:

Why were Buffalo's backups and camp fodder better prepared to execute than ours? 

And do you know this? I thought you weren't just looking at the box score?

[JAF-N72EX]

On 8/25/2021 at 10:20 PM, abstract_thought said:

One thing I'll never understand is this forum's fawning over Kyle Shanahan, an offensive guru who's had 1 season in the top half of the league in Total Offense.

Because context matters and stats don't tell the whole story. Just look at the history.

SF started fresh in 2018 with a whole new regime and spent the first 2 years playing cleanup from the last regime. Balke was fired and replaced by Lynch. Former "offensive guru" ****e Kelly was fired and replaced by Shanny (remember when everyone was clamoring for him). Year 2 Shanny caught an epic level injury bug, including losing both his 1st and 2nd string QBs, while still playing cleanup.  In year 3 he had a below average QB in Jimmy G...a bunch of average RBs and WRs.....got hit with injuries again (including his future hall of fame LT Joe Staley AND his future replacement McGlinchey) and STILL managed to somehow find a way to finish the season 8th and 7th respectively in both passing and rushing while taking his team to teh SB. In 2020, same as 2018....

If ANY offensive minded HC is able to get these kinds of results under these kinds of circumstances with Jimmy frickin Garopollo at QB, then any praise he is getting is well justified in my book. Saleh deserves alot of credit too for his defense, and we'll see how it plays out for both of them this season.

 

[JAF-N72EX]

14 hours ago, RunningVaccs said:

Yeah, plus a whole lot of the cutesy stuff that gets on Sportscenter when it works, or takes the air out of Solider Field when it doesn't.  

Whats funny is looking at the 2017 Cheifs vs the previous year. They had a short game passer all 2016 and then all of a sudden got super efficient with the deep ball, lots of speed at skill positions.  Better personnel than the Bears in 18, but what if that's Nagy's game he's just felt the personnel getting further and further away from what he wants to do?  Then again, if that's the case, how the heck do you sit a QB who's specialty is deep ball timing and accuracy?  The Bears have more speed at WR (barely) than they used to, so maybe Nagy can start to run what he wants, at least when Fields takes over. But then again, is there going to be time for any of those plays to develop while Arlington Hambright is out there getting splatted?  It's weird, I find I can always come up with an excuse for Nagy without really trying to.  He does seem like a likable guy as Soul (I think) said on another topic, but when is the offensive mind goign to field at least a middle of the pack offense? 

All this talk of Nagy's offense being similar to Ried's has been a joke from the start. They are NOTHING alike. I feel like I lose a brain cell anytime I hear a the media or fans mention it.

[WindyCity]

33 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said:

And do you know this? I thought you weren't just looking at the box score?

Buffalo is also a way more talented team.

They and legit players playing in the 4th quarter and we had total scrubs. They had a 2nd and former 1st round pick playing DL on the last snap of the game.

The Bills OL that finished the game had 3 draft picks from the last 2 years playing. We had the UDFA fun bunch.

People don’t seem to realize that Preseason games expose depth more than anything.

 

[JAF-N72EX]

8 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

They and legit players playing in the 4th quarter and we had total scrubs.

The Bucs did too against the Titans last week. Are they doomed for the season too?

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

6 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

All this talk of Nagy's offense being similar to Ried's has been a joke from the start. They are NOTHING alike. I feel like I lose a brain cell anytime I hear a the media or fans mention it.

Well, OK, but that's still the most successful offense Nagy has been a part of (2017, when he was OC) so what else are we supposed to use to guess at what his offense wants to be?

[soulman]

8 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

I have alot of issue with Nagy but lack of discipline isn't one of them. In fact, it's been one of Nagy's "highlights" during his tenure here and one of the reasons I still believe he's a good HC but also still growing/learning.

What I'm drawing from here are two things that stick out.

1) The frequency of pre-snap penalties that often create 1st, 2nd and 3rd and long situations.

2) The missed assignments more offensively than defensively but both units have been guilty.

Top NFL coaches would never be OK with the number of times #1 seems to happen and if starters are missing assignments they don't remain starters very long.  They will play a lesser talent who executes better challenging the former starter to get his **** together.

 

And I'm not going by just this preseason either.  This has been my observations over the 3 seasons Nagy has coached here and I'm tossing out judgement calls on the defense for PI or Roughing completely.  Those are seldom as much of a concern as drive killing offensive ones.