Raiders waive LB Tanner Muse

[NYRaider]

Just now, Geezy said:

this is a great point. Scholarship players have been tied to this team for wayyy to long. We brought in players that were better(Perryman, Wright) and another developmental LB in Deablo that shows more upside. 

We do need to stop blowing picks at a high rate though, i just can respect that Mayock isnt just saving face by sticking to guys he drafted longer than he needs to. 

Blowing the mid-round picks sucks but we really need Abram and Arnette to be at least average. 

[ronjon1990]

1 hour ago, NYRaider said:

So when we hit on picks it's lucky and when we miss it's because Mayock is terrible, gotcha. 

Johnson was a WR/CB convert that started two years at Houston, he was a 6'2" corner with 33" arms and elite testing numbers. We took a chance on his upside and it didn't work out, just like we did with Crosby. 

Moreau not playing a ton last year had more to do with the fact that he tore his ACL late in his rookie season then him not being better than Witten. 

Renfrow has been our most consistent WR during his first two years, he likely won't ever be a star but he's a solid slot WR that we drafted in the 5th round, lol. 

Through Crosby's first 2 seasons he has more sacks than any other player drafted in his class. 

No.

When we take a guy in the 5th round who was projected to go in the 5th round (or thereabouts) and they wind up better, we get lucky. This applies to every team/GM. 

When we take a projected 6th or 7th rounder in the 3rd and it fails, it's because Mayock is a f'n moron. 

Huge difference.

[ronjon1990]

59 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

I agree on the Bowden/Muse picks being bad. Simpson will likely be starting for us this season and Cable praised him during the off-season. Keeping one of the best OG's in the league and one of the most versatile OL in the league means that Simpson isn't good?

Our entire defense struggled last year, let's wait and see what Amik does this year. 

We haven't even seen Koonce play yet and you can always use more pass rushers. Elijah Molden is currently 3rd string on the Titans. 

Deablo and Muse aren't similar at all, imo. Muse was a workout warrior that played at a meh level on stacked defenses in college. Deablo's skill-set translates better and he was taken because Bradley and Richard Smith saw him playing LB at the Senior Bowl and were intrigued. They had success with Kyzir White and Bradley has also had success with LB/SS drafted later like Kam Chancellor, Bobby Wagner, and KJ Wright. 

Safety depth was definitely needed, Abram is a wild card and we lost Jeff Heath/Erik Harris (lol). 

Hobbs is starting at SCB for us and Molden is buried on the Titans depth chart. 

 

No. It means that Simpson is neither a hit nor miss yet. 

Koonce was a luxury pick though, given Crosby and Yannick, amongst others at the position. I'm not anti-Koonce, I'm anti-using early mid round picks on deep depth when we have starters that should've been replaced/given serious competition. 

Let me clarify: S converted to LB taken day 2 and hoping it works. It's a gamble, whether Bradley liked him or not. Maybe he works out. But I've also steadfastly stated I wouldn't touch a project before round 5. 

Molden would be our starter and Hobbs would be buried on the Titans depth chart. That's what happens on bad teams. I never said anything negative about Hobbs, only that I would've taken Molden in place of who we took at the time and, like virtually everyone except @BayRaider, had no idea who Nate Hobbs was on Draft day. 

 

[NCOUGHMAN]

1 hour ago, Geezy said:

this is a great point. Scholarship players have been tied to this team for wayyy to long. We brought in players that were better(Perryman, Wright) and another developmental LB in Deablo that shows more upside. 

We do need to stop blowing picks at a high rate though, i just can respect that Mayock isnt just saving face by sticking to guys he drafted longer than he needs to. 

Peterman isn’t a scholarship player?

[BackinBlack]

14 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Peterman isn’t a scholarship player?

He may be. . . but QB is kind of different. 
I dont know why we carry 3, but if Gruden wants 3 QBs, then I dont think its crazy to say Peterman is a decent 3rd QB

[NYRaider]

56 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

No. It means that Simpson is neither a hit nor miss yet. 

Koonce was a luxury pick though, given Crosby and Yannick, amongst others at the position. I'm not anti-Koonce, I'm anti-using early mid round picks on deep depth when we have starters that should've been replaced/given serious competition. 

Let me clarify: S converted to LB taken day 2 and hoping it works. It's a gamble, whether Bradley liked him or not. Maybe he works out. But I've also steadfastly stated I wouldn't touch a project before round 5. 

Molden would be our starter and Hobbs would be buried on the Titans depth chart. That's what happens on bad teams. I never said anything negative about Hobbs, only that I would've taken Molden in place of who we took at the time and, like virtually everyone except @BayRaider, had no idea who Nate Hobbs was on Draft day. 

So how is it a bad pick especially considering Incognito's age and health concerns? 

Who would you have preferred over Koonce? 

You can draft a LB that played LB in HS/college and it might not work out. Littleton played defensive end in college and Kwit started his college career as a safety. Bradley has had success with Kam Chancellor and Kyzir White in the past and I think that he'll be more of a hybrid player. 

The Titans defense wasn't much better than ours last season, they allowed 398 yards/27.4 ppg while we allowed 389 yards/29.9 ppg. 

Hobbs outplayed Molden in the preseason, was coached by Lovie Smith at Illinois and has experience in a cover 3 scheme. Hobbs is also 6'0' 200 (31.5" arms) with 4.38 speed/40" vert while Molden is 5'9" 190 (29.5" arms) with 4.60" speed/36" vert. Hobbs was also a good tackler in college and that has shown in the preseason while Molden has had issues with finishing tackles. 

[NYRaider]

20 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Peterman isn’t a scholarship player?

Peterman has to be carried because Mariota, the backup we're paying a ton of money too, is always hurt. 

[NYRaider]

5 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

He may be. . . but QB is kind of different. 
I dont know why we carry 3, but if Gruden wants 3 QBs, then I dont think its crazy to say Peterman is a decent 3rd QB

We carry 3 QB's because Mariota isn't dependable. IIRC he didn't even suit up the first 10-12 weeks due to injury.

[NCOUGHMAN]

6 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Peterman has to be carried because Mariota, the backup we're paying a ton of money too, is always hurt. 

Peterman was here before mm tho iirc 

[NCOUGHMAN]

14 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

He may be. . . but QB is kind of different. 
I dont know why we carry 3, but if Gruden wants 3 QBs, then I dont think its crazy to say Peterman is a decent 3rd QB

He’s only here cause of gruden imo almost as soon as gruden came he called up peterman 

[NYRaider]

Just now, NCOUGHMAN said:

Peterman was here before mm tho iirc 

Peterman was on our practice squad during 2019. I wouldn't necessarily consider him a scholarship player though, Mariota wasn't even on the active roster for the first 11 games of the season. Peterman was our QB2 for 3/4 of the season because Mariota was injured. It's hard to only carry 2 QB if Mariota is your second guy because if Carr gets hurt he's also probably hurt, lol.

[NYRaider]

3 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

He’s only here cause of gruden imo almost as soon as gruden came he called up peterman 

If it weren't Peterman we'd still have to carry a 3rd QB because Mariota isn't dependable and can't stay healthy. 

[Humble_Beast]

I like Hobbs, there was a buzz all TC and he looked good in preseason. Koonce and Deablo both question marks, and 3rd rounders lol. Would be nice if they pan out 

Edited September 9, 2021 by Humble_Beast

[NYRaider]

7 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said:

I like Hobbs, there was a buzz all TC and he looked good in preseason. Koonce and Deablo both question marks, and 3rd rounders lol. Would be nice if they pan out 

Deablo was hurt for most of OTA's and training camp. I didn't hear much about Koonce, good or bad, during training camp. But he looked solid as a pass rusher against the Rams. 

https://www.silverandblackpride.com/2021/8/25/22638207/raiders-malcolm-koonce-rookie-preseason

[ronjon1990]

24 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

So how is it a bad pick especially considering Incognito's age and health concerns? 

Who would you have preferred over Koonce? 

You can draft a LB that played LB in HS/college and it might not work out. Littleton played defensive end in college and Kwit started his college career as a safety. Bradley has had success with Kam Chancellor and Kyzir White in the past and I think that he'll be more of a hybrid player. 

The Titans defense wasn't much better than ours last season, they allowed 398 yards/27.4 ppg while we allowed 389 yards/29.9 ppg. 

Hobbs outplayed Molden in the preseason, was coached by Lovie Smith at Illinois and has experience in a cover 3 scheme. Hobbs is also 6'0' 200 (31.5" arms) with 4.38 speed/40" vert while Molden is 5'9" 190 (29.5" arms) with 4.60" speed/36" vert. Hobbs was also a good tackler in college and that has shown in the preseason while Molden has had issues with finishing tackles. 

I never said Simpson was a bad pick. I said it's a neutral pick until he succeeds or fails. As it stands, he's fone neither. 

If you want my preferred picks and why, they're in the draft threads. I'm not digging them out to prove Mayock and Gruden are questionable drafters in a thread about Tanner Muse lol. 

The success rate at drafting LBs to play LB is infinitely higher than position switches. So I'm still not taking a project early in the draft. The punter Pittsburgh took looks like a hell of a DE. Should we have taken him in the 1st to play that? 

All told, I would've traded our D for Tennessee's regardless of a cherry picked stat line. They were better on the field. 

Molden ran a 4.47, not a 4.6. Again, I'm cool with Hobbs. But dude was on like nobody's radar. That's how surprises work. I wouldn't have drafted him because he wasn't on my board at all and the CB I liked was available. Maybe Hobbs has a much better career than Molden. I hope so, since we have him. Time will tell. But I'd bet my left nut that Molden would be starting here if they swapped places. It doesn't matter as neither was a gross reach where they were selected.