Week 5: Bears vs. Raiders

[CBears019]

Man are we behind on this one.

 

go.

[Sugashane]

2 hours ago, CBears019 said:

Man are we behind on this one.

 

go.

YOU'RE behind. YOU go!

 

Raiders have a better defense than Detroit but still nothing too special. Pass rush is definitely better though and without Monty it will be interesting to see how we protect Fields without Monty to lean on. I think that would have been a good match up him.

Carr has been slinging it all over and I think Mack and Quinn both have big games but we lack the talent in the backfield to do much inside the 20s to stop them.

Raiders win 30-24

[soulman]

Big challenge for Desai and Townsend and their secondary to limit the damage the Raiders can do through the air.  The DL and LBs will need to keep Carr under constant pressure.  Gonna be tough to hold these guys to 20 points or less so the offense has to step up their scoring.  Can they?

[Heinz D.]

1 hour ago, soulman said:

Big challenge for Desai and Townsend and their secondary to limit the damage the Raiders can do through the air.  The DL and LBs will need to keep Carr under constant pressure.  Gonna be tough to hold these guys to 20 points or less so the offense has to step up their scoring.  Can they?

Since the week one second half debacle, Desai has stuck with a "bend, but don't break" philosophy...and it's worked out fairly well. I don't really like that sort of gameplan myself, as every team in the NFL has at least one fairly dynamic offensive guy on it--and lots of yards given up inevitably leads to points being scored off one big play or another. My personal take aside--what they're doing HAS worked. The score of the Cleveland game is really misleading (should have been like 42-6 Cleveland), and it turns out that the Bengals are a pretty darn good team. What the Bears D did to Lions in the red zone was impressive. 

That being said, the defense still has to start playing MUCH better than it has been. Johnson's transition to #1 CB has been pretty awful thus far--which I didn't foresee at all. Who would have thought that I'd be eagerly awaiting Vildor's return from injury? Right now, Johnson looks to be the third best corner on the team, if that, and that's really painful. Also, I have no idea what Eddie Jackson has to do (or not do) to actually get benched. It's like he could go out there blindfolded and still be declared the starter the following week. (But, in Jackson's defense, he did have one nice open-field tackle against the Lions.)

As far as the offense goes, I certainly think an uptick in scoring is inevitable. The Raiders defense is much improved, though...so it may not be this week. 

Another game where I have no idea what to expect. Interesting time to be a Bears fan, I guess. Much better than predicting losses most the time, though. 

2 hours ago, Sugashane said:

YOU'RE behind. YOU go!

LOL! 

Edited October 9, 2021 by Heinz D.

[dll2000]

I haven’t watched Raiders play this year, I do know Gruden though.  

My guess is with Hicks out and Goldman being weird they mostly try to ram it down our throat and play match up football targeting Vildor and Shelley.  

Raiders podcasts are pretty high on their edge pass rush which is not a strength of Bears O.  

Not a great match up for Bears from sounds of things.  That being said, unlike how I felt about Rams and Browns I don’t think this is an unwinnable game.  Raiders are not nearly as good as those teams. 

Still I think Raiders win the game.  I just hope Fields continues to learn and improve and doesn’t get hurt. 

[Madmike90]

I think the Raiders win but they are being overrated at this point and I think the Chargers really set how the blue print on how to stop that high powered passing attack...question is do we have the players to do it?...

From Fields I just want to see smart football and growth...I suspect the Raiders will be able to put him under more pressure than the Lions so if his clock speeds up and his decision making stays smart then that is real progress...would love him to even go for a TD and no INTs...protect the ball...lean on Williams & Herbert in the run game and find out guys on intermediate to longer routes...offence and gameplan clearly worked for him vs. The Lions so just stick to it.

[soulman]

45 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

Since the week one second half debacle, Desai has stuck with a "bend, but don't break" philosophy...and it's worked out fairly well. I don't really like that sort of gameplan myself, as every team in the NFL has at least one fairly dynamic offensive guy on it--and lots of yards given up inevitably leads to points being scored off one big play or another. My personal take aside--what they're doing HAS worked. The score of the Cleveland game is really misleading (should have been like 42-6 Cleveland), and it turns out that the Bengals are a pretty darn good team. What the Bears D did to Lions in the red zone was impressive. 

That being said, the defense still has to start playing MUCH better than it has been. Johnson's transition to #1 CB has been pretty awful thus far--which I didn't foresee at all. Who would have thought that I'd be eagerly awaiting Vildor's return from injury? Right now, Johnson looks to be the third best corner on the team, if that, and that's really painful. Also, I have no idea what Eddie Jackson has to do (or not do) to actually get benched. It's like he could go out there blindfolded and still be declared the starter the following week. (But, in Jackson's defense, he did have one nice open-field tackle against the Lions.)

I don't really have an answer to all of it brother.  I know one weak spot is Bush in coverage.  Gipson is due to return this week so that should help.

Now, has he been calling defensive signals for the secondary or is that EJax' job.  Or is it Smith's.  Or do we miss DT and his leadership?

Lot's of questions need to be answered here.

Fangio's defense was pretty much a bend but don't break concept as well.  He played for turnovers and in Fuller and Jackson we had two guys who were very good at producing them.  Since then Fuller is gone and from what I've been able to see EJax is seldom playing deep centerfield or playing robber so picks are way down.  Is it scheme, lack of talent, or both?

Jaylon Johnson's stats for pass defense and picks to date would show an improvement over 2020 provided he keeps going at his current rate.  It's Vildor who hasn't shown up as well in coverage and Shelley as well.  But those two are late round picks so we already knew what we might expect from them would be limited.  But it's Eddie Jackson who concerns me most.

Without a doubt the secondary is major weak spot for this defense but that's not totally unexpected.

I believe things would improve greatly is we got the "old" Eddie Jackson back and we can keep Gipson on the field.  What Jackon's problem is I can't say but the sheer amount of blown coverage and missed tackles has to be corrected.  Most of it is simply inexcusable for vet DBs.

[Heinz D.]

18 minutes ago, soulman said:

I don't really have an answer to all of it brother.  I know one weak spot is Bush in coverage.  Gipson is due to return this week so that should help.

I didn't see that. That's huge. I feel much better about tomorrow's game already.

Bush is slightly better than a JAG. He had one brilliant play last week, and one absolutely putrid play (of the, what was he thinking?, sort) which directly led to a Lions touchdown. He's acceptable as a third option at safety...I guess?

18 minutes ago, soulman said:

Fangio's defense was pretty much a bend but don't break concept as well.  He played for turnovers and in Fuller and Jackson we had two guys who were very good at producing them.  Since then Fuller is gone and from what I've been able to see EJax is seldom playing deep centerfield or playing robber so picks are way down.  Is it scheme, lack of talent, or both?

The schemes are similar, from what I can remember of Fangio's style. I think Fangio took more chances, though. Maybe the secondary is holding Desai back? Dunno.

18 minutes ago, soulman said:

Jaylon Johnson's stats for pass defense and picks to date would show an improvement over 2020 provided he keeps going at his current rate.  It's Vildor who hasn't shown up as well in coverage and Shelley as well.  But those two are late round picks so we already knew what we might expect from them would be limited.  

I'm amazed that Johnson's stats are improved. I watched the Lions game again, and he seemed pretty lost out there at times. I certainly haven't given up on Johnson, though. I still have hope he puts it together. With safety Gipson returning, and OLB Gipson continuing to blossom, maybe that helps nudge Johnson into the zone he needs to be in. 

18 minutes ago, soulman said:

I believe things would improve greatly is we got the "old" Eddie Jackson back and we can keep Gipson on the field.  What Jackon's problem is I can't say but the sheer amount of blown coverage and missed tackles has to be corrected.  Most of it is simply inexcusable for vet DBs.

Let's be real here. Jackson has had one outstanding season in his career so far. There may not be an answer for Jackson's problem. His problem may be he simply isn't very good, and Pace should have NEVER given him that contract. 

[CBears019]

Well after a recent email leak, maybe the raiders won’t be as focused as they would normally be….?  At least i can dream.

 

Mack got shut down the last time the Raiders played them.  Hopefully that’s not the case this time.  Or if it is, Quinn makes em pay for devoting too many resources to stopping Mack.

[Heinz D.]

57 minutes ago, CBears019 said:

Mack got shut down the last time the Raiders played them.  Hopefully that’s not the case this time.  

It won't be.

57 minutes ago, CBears019 said:

Or if it is, Quinn makes em pay for devoting too many resources to stopping Mack.

That works, too. 

Or, you know,  Trevis Gipson. 😉

[Sugashane]

We have the second beat sack percentage and has the most sacks with 15. 

 

Wow. Wouldn't have guessed that a quarter of the season in a few months ago.

[Epyon]

2 hours ago, CBears019 said:

Mack got shut down the last time the Raiders played them.  Hopefully that’s not the case this time.  Or if it is, Quinn makes em pay for devoting too many resources to stopping Mack.

Yeah this year we have Quinn actually outperforming Mack, and Gipson who's been one of the league's best non starting edge so far this year.

I'd heard the Raider's secondary is pretty banged up as well.... I think, combined with Monty being down and out, that this might end up being Fields' big breakout game.  Mooney matches last week's numbers, and we get either Robinson to actually show up this season, or some combination of the rest of the depth chart actually netting 100+ yards receiving as well. I'm gonna say 275+ receiving yards and somewhere around 85 rushing yards by RBs for the offense this week. I'll say Fields with 2.5 TDs (the .5 being a potential rushing TD by Fields), and 1 rushing TD for Herbert or Williams.

Bears win 27-21

Edited October 9, 2021 by Epyon

[Heinz D.]

28 minutes ago, Epyon said:

I'd heard the Raider's secondary is pretty banged up as well.... I think, combined with Monty being down and out, that this might end up being Fields' big breakout game. 

I do not disagree with you, in general. But y'all shouldn't be sleeping on Williams and Herbert. And, don't get me wrong, I'm the biggest Montgomery fan around...but our depth at that position is really, really, solid. 

[soulman]

2 hours ago, Heinz D. said:

I didn't see that. That's huge. I feel much better about tomorrow's game already.

Bush is slightly better than a JAG. He had one brilliant play last week, and one absolutely putrid play (of the, what was he thinking?, sort) which directly led to a Lions touchdown. He's acceptable as a third option at safety...I guess?

The schemes are similar, from what I can remember of Fangio's style. I think Fangio took more chances, though. Maybe the secondary is holding Desai back? Dunno.

I'm amazed that Johnson's stats are improved. I watched the Lions game again, and he seemed pretty lost out there at times. I certainly haven't given up on Johnson, though. I still have hope he puts it together. With safety Gipson returning, and OLB Gipson continuing to blossom, maybe that helps nudge Johnson into the zone he needs to be in. 

Let's be real here. Jackson has had one outstanding season in his career so far. There may not be an answer for Jackson's problem. His problem may be he simply isn't very good, and Pace should have NEVER given him that contract. 

Johnson, like Amukamara, is more of a close cover man coverage style guy.  So if asked to play zone he may have gotten confused about an assignment.  If that's truly the problem vs just bad calls by Desai himself when guys are blowing coverage assignments Desai and his guys need to dig into why.  I'm never sure of exactly how to parse the responsibility for it. 

Coaches can only coach.  They can't take the field and carry out the assignments themselves so a good deal of the responsibility has to lie with the players themselves.  But much like the OL it is up to the coaches to clean it up and get everyone on the same page.

 

As for EJax, I've never seen a guy miss more tackles because of lousy technique than him.  He play timid like he never want to square up on a guy, break down, and tackle him.  He's always looking grab ankles or throw a shoulder into a guys legs and most of the time he misses.  I also don't know why he's not as opportunistic as he once was

Have they changed his role?  Do QBs tend to avoid him more now?  He's not making as many game changing plays as he once did but then he did have two pick sixes called back last year due to penalties.  He may be the biggest frustration in the entire secondary but we have no one to replace him with.

[Heinz D.]

2 minutes ago, soulman said:

Have they changed his role?  Do QBs tend to avoid him more now?  

No.

He just sucks.