skibrett15 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Yeah, he's actually part of the reason they were willing to part with Dareus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strat1080 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 On 10/29/2017 at 5:03 PM, jontat83 said: Leaning towards scheme being the problem more than the talent, there are ways to tailor the scheme around your talent and I am not sure (in fact almost certain) we are doing that. If Fangio is possibly leaving Chicago we should be all over that, to do that we need a vacancy and I am not sure Mike will ever fire Dom. It's not like Mike has never been critical of the defense, but he still remains. We should have picked up Fangio years ago when he was available. I have a tremendous amount of respect for that guy as a DC. We've invested so much on the defensive side of the ball to the point where it has impacted the talent we have on offense and Capers can't ever field a legit defense. My biggest problem with Capers defense is how terrible they are at situational football. That is what it takes to be great in the NFL. That is what the Patriots do year after year. They have an offense and defense that excels at situational football. Our defense sucks in the red zone, at the end of halfs, and in OT. It just simply isn't a Super Bowl caliber defense. The Patriots dont' have stud defensive players but they find a way to be good when it counts. 2010 is beginning to look like a fluke for Capers. That is the history with Capers as DC. He has a couple really good years then his defense goes stale. Statistically his first year was probably his best as DC in 2009 but even in that year the defense was completely incompetent in the playoffs against Arizona. My problem is all that historic milestones and appalling performances in the playoffs and in the critical moments of games. That is just simply a defense that can never be trusted to get a key stop when the game is on the line. His garbage defense in critical situations is why people get to throw out stats like "Aaron Rodgers is 0-36 when trailing by at least 1 point in the 4th quarter against teams with winning records". Its shocking how often Dom Capers' defenses have failed at the end of halfs and in OT. Aaron Rodgers has actually been one of the Top 3 most clutch QBs in the 4th quarter for most of his career but he has a terrible record in those comeback situations because Capers' defense can literally never get a stop when it counts. I watch these games and I'm baffled how anybody can possibly defend or support Capers. His defense fails time and time again when the game is on the line at the end of the 4th quarter or in OT. Its like clockwork. In Aaron Rodgers 7 playoff losses, Capers defense gave up at least 37 points in 4 of them. In the other 3, Capers defense allowed a scoring drive late in the 4th or in OT to lose. We are literally wasting the prime career of one of the greatest QBs to ever play the game by rolling with Capers year after year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strat1080 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 On 10/30/2017 at 10:08 AM, Packerraymond said: I think our lack of pass rush is a result of Daniels and Brooks lack of health. We've had to play more Fackrell and Lowry/Dial and that's just not as good. Clay has clearly lost a step and Perry finally will have 2 hands. The game hasn't passed Dom by. He still understands offenses and how to stop them. Its is he still able to relay a clear message to his younger assistant coaches and players, and are they passionate about playing for him? If he's lost that, you have to move on. I just don't want to lose this group of assistants, so I hope Moss/Whitt get the job. Good offenses roast Capers defenses over and over again. Somehow teams like the Bears and Patriots can figure out how to slow teams like the Falcons down. We play them and its 1st down after 1st down and TD after TD. Its like clockwork. The game has passed him by. 2010 was a fluke. Even in 2009 when we were a statistically great defense, Kurt Warner made Capers' defense look like a High School squad. It was embarrassing. 36 PPG allowed in 7 playoff losses. This defense is a joke. It can never be counted on in key situations or against good offenses. Every time we play a good offense in the playoffs I'm just praying that we don't give up 40 points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 On 10/30/2017 at 12:08 PM, Packerraymond said: I think our lack of pass rush is a result of Daniels and Brooks lack of health. We've had to play more Fackrell and Lowry/Dial and that's just not as good. Clay has clearly lost a step and Perry finally will have 2 hands. The game hasn't passed Dom by. He still understands offenses and how to stop them. Its is he still able to relay a clear message to his younger assistant coaches and players, and are they passionate about playing for him? If he's lost that, you have to move on. I just don't want to lose this group of assistants, so I hope Moss/Whitt get the job. Frankly, I've been wanting Moss to take over the DC job for about 3 years now. We've almost lost him on several occasions over the past two years. Our ultimate problem is, once again, strength and conditioning philosophy. We can debate how good this player is or that player is or how good this scheme is or not and it doesn't matter because too many players are hurt. So I have a compromise here that I'd like to pitch to folks. -Fire the strength and conditioning team and hire the asst. from the strength and conditioning team from the healthiest team in the league over the past 5 seasons -Fire Dom and appoint Winston Moss to DC. -Attack the lack of a pass rush and, as much as I hate to say this, shop CMIII(looks like Tarzan, playing like Jane) -Attack the lack of depth along the DL, we've been signing too many stop-gap players that barely contribute in the grand scheme of things. Daniels needs a formidable foe on the other side of himself and Clark. I really don't think our secondary is that bad at all. It's just that they're constantly hurt like practically everyone else on the team. Talking about drafting WR help on Day 1 or 2 at this point is incredibly stupid. We are fine at WR and really only need to extend Adams. Plus, it's not like we can't find a solid WR or two on Day 3. Our problem is and has almost always been defense, not offense. If I could steal Matt Patricia from the Patriots after this year, I would. He's done as much as he can with practically nothing since he's been in New England and their front 7 is worse than ours if you can believe that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 3 hours ago, strat1080 said: We should have picked up Fangio years ago when he was available. He wasn't. Packers were still playing (very) meaningful games when he was hired by Chicago. Sucks to be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 20 hours ago, Joe said: Frankly, I've been wanting Moss to take over the DC job for about 3 years now. We've almost lost him on several occasions over the past two years. Our ultimate problem is, once again, strength and conditioning philosophy. We can debate how good this player is or that player is or how good this scheme is or not and it doesn't matter because too many players are hurt. So I have a compromise here that I'd like to pitch to folks. -Fire the strength and conditioning team and hire the asst. from the strength and conditioning team from the healthiest team in the league over the past 5 seasons -Fire Dom and appoint Winston Moss to DC. -Attack the lack of a pass rush and, as much as I hate to say this, shop CMIII(looks like Tarzan, playing like Jane) -Attack the lack of depth along the DL, we've been signing too many stop-gap players that barely contribute in the grand scheme of things. Daniels needs a formidable foe on the other side of himself and Clark. I really don't think our secondary is that bad at all. It's just that they're constantly hurt like practically everyone else on the team. Talking about drafting WR help on Day 1 or 2 at this point is incredibly stupid. We are fine at WR and really only need to extend Adams. Plus, it's not like we can't find a solid WR or two on Day 3. Our problem is and has almost always been defense, not offense. If I could steal Matt Patricia from the Patriots after this year, I would. He's done as much as he can with practically nothing since he's been in New England and their front 7 is worse than ours if you can believe that... I just don't get the Winston Moss love. What have our ILBs done that gets everybody so excited about Winston Moss? Inside Linebacker has been almost universally considered the weakest position on this defense since at least 2011. Understandably, the resources haven't been dedicated to the position that you would typically see, but neither Jake Ryan or Blake Martinez look so studly as to consider them significant wins on Moss' resume. What do you do to "Attack the Pass Rush"? When you have two guys who perform, when healthy cough, as above average starters, it's hard to dump resources into that position when you're bleeding at other spots. While Clay is clearly not the rusher that he once was, it's still too early to call him a below average player. There seems to be this assumption that Clay still has the trade value that he did in 2011. Clay's been about an average player for three seasons now. NFL teams have caught on. Just watching opposing blocking schemes it's easy to see that Perry is considered the far more dangerous player. I thought we had killed the idea that you need 3 standouts on the DL. We average 2.15 DL per play. When healthy, Daniels and Clark make up about 1.55 of those 2.15 snaps. Your third/fourth guys are a run stuffer on base downs and a rotational interior rusher that pulls out Clark on aggressive downs and backs up Daniels when he needs a break on standard snaps. That's Quinton Dial and Dean Lowry. I'd love to upgrade Lowry but it's hard to throw a guy like Lowry in the trash (and that's really what you're doing if you bring in an outside guy at this point.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 20 hours ago, Joe said: Frankly, I've been wanting Moss to take over the DC job for about 3 years now. We've almost lost him on several occasions over the past two years. Why is everyone so high on Winston Moss? I'm not trying to take you apart on this, but this isn't the first time that I've seen someone imply that he's a good DC candidate. He's been our ILB coach for a while now, and the first one that I think he got to play at a reasonably high level is Blake Martinez. Granted, he hasn't had a ton to work with but why are people high on him? From what I've gathered, he's more of a rah rah guy rather than a strong X's and O's, but I might just be regurgitating something I read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TransientTexan Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 17 minutes ago, CWood21 said: the first one that I think he got to play at a reasonably high level is Blake Martinez. and some of this is from great DL play occupying blockers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantyWrestler Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 On 10/29/2017 at 5:25 PM, NormSizedMidget said: Why must it be one or the other? You think both? the way I see it, either TT is terrible at evaluating defensive talent or Capers sucks at coaching them up. I don’t think it’s both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantyWrestler Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 On 10/30/2017 at 1:00 AM, incognito_man said: are we giving up a lot compared to the rest of the league? I believe they said before the Saints game that New Orleans and Green Bay were two of the worst defenses in 3rd down percentage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forthegame Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 you have to be open to changing your scheme a little bit to fit some of the needs of the players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 1 hour ago, MantyWrestler said: You think both? the way I see it, either TT is terrible at evaluating defensive talent or Capers sucks at coaching them up. I don’t think it’s both. Yes and no. It might not happen with the same player, but I think there's blame that can lie with both parties. Some players it was clearly a misevaluation, where as others are more didn't develop correctly. I look at a guy like Jerel Worthy, and he was an average athlete who relied heavily on being able to jump the snap. Obviously that doesn't work out as well in the NFL as it did in college, and that to me falls back on Ted Thompson. You look at a guy like Khyri Thornton, and you saw a guy with impressive raw athleticism but was short in terms of production. That miss falls on the coaching staff for not properly developing him. And you have to look at guys like Casey Hayward who are a bit limited in terms of what they're able to do, and if the coaching staff doesn't adjust to what a player has to offer that falls on them. I think Hayward was good in the slot, but when he was asked to play on the boundary he got exposed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LacyIsGood Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Waldo's post years back about the peak and decline of Caper's defenses held true. I definitely wouldn't want any of the current assistants on defense promoted either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted November 2, 2017 Author Share Posted November 2, 2017 10 minutes ago, LacyIsGood said: Waldo's post years back about the peak and decline of Caper's defenses held true. I definitely wouldn't want any of the current assistants on defense promoted either. If you find this, send it to Mike McCarthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantyWrestler Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 9 hours ago, CWood21 said: Yes and no. It might not happen with the same player, but I think there's blame that can lie with both parties. Some players it was clearly a misevaluation, where as others are more didn't develop correctly. I look at a guy like Jerel Worthy, and he was an average athlete who relied heavily on being able to jump the snap. Obviously that doesn't work out as well in the NFL as it did in college, and that to me falls back on Ted Thompson. You look at a guy like Khyri Thornton, and you saw a guy with impressive raw athleticism but was short in terms of production. That miss falls on the coaching staff for not properly developing him. And you have to look at guys like Casey Hayward who are a bit limited in terms of what they're able to do, and if the coaching staff doesn't adjust to what a player has to offer that falls on them. I think Hayward was good in the slot, but when he was asked to play on the boundary he got exposed. I agree with the misses. We m talking about the players currently on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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