3 Ups, 3 Downs, 3 WTH's Week 8

[DawgX]

3 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

Defense gave up 15 points yesterday.

 

Can we stop ****ting on them? The offense is the problem.

Offense was definitely the bigger issue yesterday, but the defense has still played well below their talent level and that's on Woods. We've benefited from playing against some crap offenses (Chicago, Denver, and Pittsburgh). The Minnesota game was the only game where I felt we did a really good job on defense. Chicago to a lesser extent, as they just had a horrible offensive game plan.

Woods' game plan every week is hope Garrett causes the QB problems and that's about it. No exotic looks, constantly playing your CBs with huge cushions despite them excelling in press coverage, having a great box safety in JJ3 playing deep centerfield way too often, etc. I mean, how often did we concede underneath throws yesterday despite Ben not being a legit threat to throw it deep?

Most of the time our defense has been solid to good is because our defensive talent just severely outmatched the opposing offense's talent and not because we had a great defensive scheme or game plan. Just imagine how good this defense could be if we had a good to great DC.

[MWil23]

11 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

Defense gave up 15 points yesterday.

 

Can we stop ****ting on them? The offense is the problem.

They're not the reason we lost, but when you give up 2 4th Down conversions that lead to 2 TD, that's yet another 2 year trend that has been HISTORICALLY BAD in that regard, which goes a lot further than just points given up.

[candyman93]

21 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

They're not the reason we lost, but when you give up 2 4th Down conversions that lead to 2 TD, that's yet another 2 year trend that has been HISTORICALLY BAD in that regard, which goes a lot further than just points given up.

It’s understandable to point to those crucial moments. However, a defense cannot be expected to stop an offense the entire game.

 

Let’s say a defense stopped them on those 4th down plays, but gave up TDs on other drives. What’s the difference?

[candyman93]

When you look at our offense:

 

We scored 29 points against the worst defense in the nfl.

We scored 31 points against the worst team in the nfl.

We scored 26 points because the bears offense was historically bad that game.

We scored 42 points against the Chargers. Who are average defensively and worst against the run.

 

This offense is an underachieving train wreck when we face good defenses. Since that Chargers game, the most we’ve scored is 17 points. Before that Chargers game we only scored 14 against Minnesota.

Edited November 1, 2021 by candyman93

[MWil23]

12 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

It’s understandable to point to those crucial moments. However, a defense cannot be expected to stop an offense the entire game.

It happened against the Chargers this year as well as the Chiefs on 3rd and long. They get a pass for last year considering the personnel issues, but this trend has become a thing. You absolutely have to get off the field on 3rd and 4th down opportunities...and they can't do it. They did a good job on 3rd Down as a whole yesterday, but Pittsburgh also WON the time of possession, especially in the second half.

12 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

Let’s say a defense stopped them on those 4th down plays, but gave up TDs on other drives. What’s the difference?

Let's say that this hasn't been a two year trend, then I'd be willing to go down that hypothetical alternate universe.

Considering we've forced 3 INT this year and are -3 in the turnover differential (and our offense isn't turning it over very much this year), that's a major red flag as well.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

7 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

It happened against the Chargers this year as well as the Chiefs on 3rd and long. They get a pass for last year considering the personnel issues, but this trend has become a thing. You absolutely have to get off the field on 3rd and 4th down opportunities...and they can't do it. They did a good job on 3rd Down as a whole yesterday, but Pittsburgh also WON the time of possession, especially in the second half.

Let's say that this hasn't been a two year trend, then I'd be willing to go down that hypothetical alternate universe.

Considering we've forced 3 INT this year and are -3 in the turnover differential (and our offense isn't turning it over very much this year), that's a major red flag as well.

Yeah the best defenses in this regard have 18, multiple others have 13 or 14.  We have 5, with top 40 picks all over our line and backfield.

 

At some point we’ve got to start forcing turnovers and giving our offense extra possessions.  Turnover differential is arguably the biggest indicator/variable for success in the game, and we’re not doing well.

Another thing about getting turnovers, it’s not like we’ve been super unlucky or anything and had a bunch of dropped picks or whatever, we’re not even getting our hands on the ball.

[MWil23]

32 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Yeah the best defenses in this regard have 18, multiple others have 13 or 14.  We have 5, with top 40 picks all over our line and backfield.

 

At some point we’ve got to start forcing turnovers and giving our offense extra possessions.  Turnover differential is arguably the biggest indicator/variable for success in the game, and we’re not doing well.

Another thing about getting turnovers, it’s not like we’ve been super unlucky or anything and had a bunch of dropped picks or whatever, we’re not even getting our hands on the ball.

You know what the best indicator for turnovers in the NFL is? It's pressure. And considering we've been elite at that on our front 4, that means we need more varied looks, coverages, fronts, etc.

When I can sit back and see a safety at 15 yards (1 high), I know without a doubt it's Cover 3. That means a soft cushion outside the numbers and slants/digs in the intermediate as "beaters".

Our negative turnover differential coupled with us being the most penalized team in the NFL is an easy explanation as to why this is a .500 team...and what have we thrown, 3 INT through 8 games? That's incredible tbh.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

6 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

You know what the best indicator for turnovers in the NFL is? It's pressure. And considering we've been elite at that on our front 4, that means we need more varied looks, coverages, fronts, etc.

Pressure and confusion.  Disguising coverages, zone blitz concepts, etc.. Make people have to guess and eventually they guess wrong.

6 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

When I can sit back and see a safety at 15 yards (1 high), I know without a doubt it's Cover 3. That means a soft cushion outside the numbers and slants/digs in the intermediate as "beaters".

I get the philosophy, and I don’t think it’s a bad one.  Make teams drive the ball.  Avoid big plays.  Cool.  But some QB’s will take the easy throws and drive the ball.  At that point it’s time to go with man concepts and make them make a play down the field. Yesterday was a good day to do that.  Ben will dink and dunk your arse to death, he’s not taking a ton of deep shots at this point nor is his line gonna hold up for that.

6 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Our negative turnover differential coupled with us being the most penalized team in the NFL is an easy explanation as to why this is a .500 team...and what have we thrown, 3 INT through 8 games? That's incredible tbh.

Yep.  For all of Baker’s faults, he’s playing smart with the football.

[MSURacerDT55]

Up: 

-Defense, despite being on the field the majority of the game, they played well enough to win the game. Also I thought our corners played well given the circumstances, Newsome is going to be a stud

Down: 

-One of the biggest disappointing aspects of this year's team has been our coaching (offense specifically), Stefanski probably should take more input from Callahan moving forward, and why the hell can't we scheme up a deep pass? We absolutely played right into the Steelers hands. These last few games as exposed Stefanski and his coaching abilities, he has the more talented team and lost to a team who has a superior leader. You can say what you want to say about Tomlin but when it comes down to playing the game, those players play to a high standard and play with pride. Something we lack. Also I feel to some degree we missed Stump Mitchell's direction in the run game 

-WRs, our receivers have been complete trash, both Beckham and Landry had chances to make game changing plays and both were pathetic, outside of that, DPJ and Njoku should be the focus of the receivers moving forward, everyone else should be looked at as a novelty. Time to start scouting Draft prospects at WR

-Offensive line, our line was supposed to be ranked the #1 OL in the NFL, we got owned all game, especially inside, Cam Hayward was a GROWN MAN inside 

-Linebackers, they were getting pushed around and out of place all game, very few routine tackles at the point of attack or impact plays.

 

Edited November 1, 2021 by MSURacerDT55

[Rod Johnson]

1 hour ago, DawgX said:

Offense was definitely the bigger issue yesterday, but the defense has still played well below their talent level and that's on Woods. We've benefited from playing against some crap offenses (Chicago, Denver, and Pittsburgh). The Minnesota game was the only game where I felt we did a really good job on defense. Chicago to a lesser extent, as they just had a horrible offensive game plan.

Woods' game plan every week is hope Garrett causes the QB problems and that's about it. No exotic looks, constantly playing your CBs with huge cushions despite them excelling in press coverage, having a great box safety in JJ3 playing deep centerfield way too often, etc. I mean, how often did we concede underneath throws yesterday despite Ben not being a legit threat to throw it deep?

Most of the time our defense has been solid to good is because our defensive talent just severely outmatched the opposing offense's talent and not because we had a great defensive scheme or game plan. Just imagine how good this defense could be if we had a good to great DC.

Plus we would have given up more points if we didn't injure their kicker. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

24 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

Up: 

-Defense, despite being on the field the majority of the game, they played well enough to win the game. Also I thought our corners played well given the circumstances, Newsome is going to be a stud

Newsome definitely looked good.

Quote

Down: 

-One of the biggest disappointing aspects of this year's team has been our coaching (offense specifically), Stefanski probably should take more input from Callahan moving forward, and why the hell can't we scheme up a deep pass?

Yeah it’s pretty wild how we simply don’t throw deep at all.  Not a fan.  Don’t think you need to run Freddie or Hue’s “ok guys let’s go 5 wide and everyone just run” offenses, but take a shot once a quarter. (That’s good advice for fans too btw)

Quote

We absolutely played right into the Steelers hands. These last few games as exposed Stefanski and his coaching abilities, he has the more talented team and lost to a team who has a superior leader. You can say what you want to say about Tomlin but when it comes down to playing the game, those players play to a high standard and play with pride. Something we lack. Also I feel to some degree we missed Stump Mitchell's direction in the run game 

I didn’t see a lack of leadership as the issue, I saw pro bowlers/vets simply not making plays. There’s no coaching blame from me when guys drop easy passes and fumble the ball.

Quote

-WRs, our receivers have been complete trash, both Beckham and Landry had chances to make game changing plays and both were pathetic, outside of that, DPJ and Njoku should be the focus of the receivers moving forward, everyone else should be looked at as a novelty. Time to start scouting Draft prospects at WR

Yep, 100%.

Quote

-Offensive line, our line was supposed to be ranked the #1 OL in the NFL, we got owned all game, especially inside, Cam Hayward was a GROWN MAN inside 

Cam always has been and I expected nothing different.  Watt is a monster too.

Quote

-Linebackers, they were getting pushed around and out of place all game, very routine tackles at the point of attack or impact plays.

 

Yeah, as always it seems.  Maybe Phillips can play and JOK looks like a good one, but we still need help there.  Oh, and play Takitaki over Wilson, he at least can tackle.  No clue how that guy still gets reps.

[MWil23]

28 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Pressure and confusion.  Disguising coverages, zone blitz concepts, etc.. Make people have to guess and eventually they guess wrong.

I guess that's my point. No disguise=no confusion, no penalties, no miscommunication on route read concepts, no confusion on where pressure is/isn't coming from, etc.

28 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I get the philosophy, and I don’t think it’s a bad one.  Make teams drive the ball.  Avoid big plays.  Cool.  But some QB’s will take the easy throws and drive the ball.  At that point it’s time to go with man concepts and make them make a play down the field. Yesterday was a good day to do that.  Ben will dink and dunk your arse to death, he’s not taking a ton of deep shots at this point nor is his line gonna hold up for that.

I'm not anti-Cover 3 and actually think it can be beneficial. Here's what I do have a problem with:

1. No disguise or threat of a disguise means that it's easy to pick that apart and sustain a drive

2. Make them guess/keep them off-balance so you don't know what you're getting from a play-caller, let alone a QB.

3. Force some turnovers. Yes, you occasionally lose that battle and give up a big play, but no risk=no reward...and let's be honest, the Chargers and Chiefs had big plays against us (not to mention the Cardinals in the Red Zone) even with this zone defense. 

28 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Yep.  For all of Baker’s faults, he’s playing smart with the football.

He still needs to read pressure better, but he's been very smart with the football...and I'd really like to see them commit more to an outside of the numbers approach and not just the middle of the field in the short game and outside of the numbers in the intermediate game. JMHO

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

28 minutes ago, Rod Johnson said:

Plus we would have given up more points if we didn't injure their kicker. 

That’s what irked the hell out of me at the end of the game.  Like, just score a TD on one of those drives, go up by 2 and it’s essentially a TD deficit as they can’t kick a FG.

Hell if Juice hadn’t fumbled we could have potentially won the game by kicking a pair of FGs.

[mtmmike]

2 hours ago, DawgX said:

Offense was definitely the bigger issue yesterday, but the defense has still played well below their talent level and that's on Woods. We've benefited from playing against some crap offenses (Chicago, Denver, and Pittsburgh). The Minnesota game was the only game where I felt we did a really good job on defense. Chicago to a lesser extent, as they just had a horrible offensive game plan.

Woods' game plan every week is hope Garrett causes the QB problems and that's about it. No exotic looks, constantly playing your CBs with huge cushions despite them excelling in press coverage, having a great box safety in JJ3 playing deep centerfield way too often, etc. I mean, how often did we concede underneath throws yesterday despite Ben not being a legit threat to throw it deep?

Most of the time our defense has been solid to good is because our defensive talent just severely outmatched the opposing offense's talent and not because we had a great defensive scheme or game plan. Just imagine how good this defense could be if we had a good to great DC.

What good to great defensive coordinatorsI'savailable 

I believe Joe woods has 2 super bowl rings.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

Oh, and Ronnie Harrison too, can’t forget about that absurd hit along the sideline.

He may have some ability, but Jesus does he do some dumb ish.