Staff Overhaul for 2022 - Discuss, debate, deliberate..... uh, d-speculate...

[soulman]

22 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

For context. SF hasn’t won under Lynch/Shanahan, but many believe they have one of the more talented rosters in the league.

Again, I am NOT pushing to keep Pace, but his record isn’t as atypical as you might think. Even at that though, you can only let someone swing and miss so many times.

Having Pace as your GM is like having Jason Hayward as your RF. Some stuff he does REALLY well (for Pace that’s evaluating DL and RB), but there are enough deficiencies in key areas that keep coming up that while you can live with him you are always left wanting more. 

But....but....but everything is more costly in San Francisco isn't it?  😁

If we took the time to research and evaluate every GM in the NFL I'd be willing to say we'd probably find very similar mistakes.  Let's pick just one.

Carolina signs Cam Newton for big money then releases him.  NE signs him and adds more cash to Cam's bank account.  Then NE releases him and after Sam Darnold thankfully get injured relieving their GM of some pressure for trading for him guess who brings back Cam Newton and pays him even more money?

Pace is not alone in his screw ups.

[abstract_thought]

12 hours ago, soulman said:

OK, fine and dandy.  So we fire both Pace and Nagy.  Now whose in charge of yet another search to hire both a new GM and a new HC simultaneously?  Guess it would be that same upper management team who did such a stellar job we got the Emery/Trestman pairing first then the Pace/Fox pairing.  The only one left is Pace but we should fire him so Teddy and GMcC can hire yet another GM/HC pairing?  Boy howdee, and I thought that my thinking was phuc'd up some days.

Why fire anyone at all then? Your argument is that it could be worse. But worse than what? Worse than 45-60 with no playoff wins in 7 seasons?

[AZBearsFan]

1 hour ago, abstract_thought said:

Why fire anyone at all then? Your argument is that it could be worse. But worse than what? Worse than 45-60 with no playoff wins in 7 seasons?

I think he’s just saying is that different doesn’t always mean better. He’s not wrong - the next guy could turn out to be the next Ozzie Newsome, the next Phil Emery or even the next Ryan Pace.

The change should still be made. Pace has been given ample time given his level of success. 

[blkwdw13]

Just because it can be worse is absolutely not a reason to keep people around. You bring new people in and keep doing it until you have the right people in place. 

[soulman]

5 hours ago, abstract_thought said:

Why fire anyone at all then? Your argument is that it could be worse. But worse than what? Worse than 45-60 with no playoff wins in 7 seasons?

OK, you're not making any sense.  Don't play games by asking a question that's already been answered if you want an honest response.

This is like asking why I keep gas in my tank and air in my tires if I'm not planning to drive anywhere at the moment.  If you want me to respond stop wasting my time with this stuff.  I've already posted a **** ton of my own reasoning as well as the thoughts of others.  Read that.

[Sugashane]

20 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

I think he’s just saying is that different doesn’t always mean better. He’s not wrong - the next guy could turn out to be the next Ozzie Newsome, the next Phil Emery or even the next Ryan Pace.

The change should still be made. Pace has been given ample time given his level of success. 

I've been adamant that the first two years at least cannot be held against Pace without bias. He was taking over an absolute dumpster fire and IDC if you got to staff the FO and coaching staff with an entirely handpicked crew, no one was winning while those changes were made.

But after 5 more years and one winning season I don't see what is special enough to keep about him. He has basically earned one horrible playoff performance and backed into an even worse one. The continual theme for the pairing of him and Nagy has been consistent underachieving.

[soulman]

8 hours ago, Sugashane said:

But after 5 more years and one winning season I don't see what is special enough to keep about him. He has basically earned one horrible playoff performance and backed into an even worse one. The continual theme for the pairing of him and Nagy has been consistent underachieving.

Agreed to a point but in reality, the kind of reality we should be dealing with in "Bears World", we also know that given any kind of reasonably solid logic for keeping Pace around GMcC is likely to find it.  Some people we know (cough cough) place far more weight on loyalty than competence so that also enters into the picture here.

Has Pace done enough to earn more time?  Meh, it kinda borderline to me but borderline is exactly the kind of scoring GMcC could use to give him another year and therefore have his help and experience in hiring a new HC and staff.  My contributions to this debate have always leaned more towards what's most likely to happen as opposed to what should happen.

What should happen and is most logical is that both Pace and Nagy are let go.  We hire and new GM who then hires HIS HC and staff but that would also mean a major rebuild of the roster for the team the new GM and HIS HC want so that sets us back at least another 1 1/2 to 2 years so what's the right answer?  I dunno.  I just think GMcC will look for an easy way out.

[Sugashane]

10 hours ago, soulman said:

Agreed to a point but in reality, the kind of reality we should be dealing with in "Bears World", we also know that given any kind of reasonably solid logic for keeping Pace around GMcC is likely to find it.  Some people we know (cough cough) place far more weight on loyalty than competence so that also enters into the picture here.

Has Pace done enough to earn more time?  Meh, it kinda borderline to me but borderline is exactly the kind of scoring GMcC could use to give him another year and therefore have his help and experience in hiring a new HC and staff.  My contributions to this debate have always leaned more towards what's most likely to happen as opposed to what should happen.

What should happen and is most logical is that both Pace and Nagy are let go.  We hire and new GM who then hires HIS HC and staff but that would also mean a major rebuild of the roster for the team the new GM and HIS HC want so that sets us back at least another 1 1/2 to 2 years so what's the right answer?  I dunno.  I just think GMcC will look for an easy way out.

I agree. I could see Pace being given a 3 year deal to match up with Fields rookie deal and not being allowed to extend him to a big deal until he himself is extended. Them he doesn't get a third crack at the QB or HC if Fields doesn't develop. 

[G08]

I am not a fan of gutting GMs and Head Coaches every few years, you simply cannot build that way.

Now, if the Head Coach isn't producing results and you feel the team has talent, then I am not opposed to keeping the GM and hiring a new Head Coach.

 

Pace has done A LOT for this franchise, I'm not of the opinion ownership wants to get rid of him. Besides, there are some examples of GMs who have hired 3 coaches and found success:

Jason Licht - Lovie Smith, Dirk Koetter, Bruce Arians

Tom Telesco - Mike McCoy, Anthony Lynn, Brandon Staley

Steve Keim - Bruce Arians, Steve Wilks, Kliff Kingsbury

John Elway - John Fox, Gary Kubiak, Vance Joseph, Vic Fangio

Howie Rosman - Andy Reid, Chip Kelly, Doug Pederson, Nick Sirianni

Rick Spielman - Brad Childress, Leslie Frazier, Mike Zimmer

[soulman]

4 hours ago, Sugashane said:

I agree. I could see Pace being given a 3 year deal to match up with Fields rookie deal and not being allowed to extend him to a big deal until he himself is extended. Them he doesn't get a third crack at the QB or HC if Fields doesn't develop. 

It's been pointed out in other posts that as fans we often overrate certain players.  OK, I'll buy that.  But we may also overrate the kind of expertise the Bears upper management has in hiring GMs and HCs.  JA did well early on but eventually ran into issues with cap management and failed to provide Cutler with the kind of support he needed to succeed yet his decade as GM was much better than this last decade.

If I'm way off base and Pace is not a guy the McCaskeys see as one day taking over at the top then he's expendable and maybe better now than later provided they're willing to go through yet another tear down and rebuild which is what we'd face under a new GM and HC.  Keeping Pace, his player personnel people, and his capologist Joey Laine intact avoids having to rebuild the front office people as well.

If I'm GMcC and Teddy Bears my questions are based on whether or not "that team" of front office guys including Josh Lucas and Champ Kelly are the guys they should trust to build around Justin Fields.  Since they drafted him they must have at least some kind of vision they can sell to GMcC and Teddy who would probably lean more toward keeping that much intact at least for now then beginning a HC search and hire.

And there's also the very small chance they decide to give Nagy his final contract year to prove himself although I believe that would be a major mistake on their part.  The pattern is very clear.  Nagy's offensive schemes have failed and will continue to fail because he refuses to change them to fit his personnel or even play his best players at times.  Ya' can't fix stupid or stubborn and IMHO Nagy has proven to be both.