SimbaWho Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WoodRo02.htm These are Robert Woods stats if you care to look them up, he was well on his way to match/come near/possibly surpass those career year numbers. You defend Goff then in the end say cut bait of your long post. Ok, so now you're talking out both sides of your mouth... Why would a different QB have anymore success than Goff unless they're just better than Goff? Cutting Goff only saves 10 million, just enough to get that bridge QB so, unless they'r vastly more talented I don't understand why Lions wouldn't just keep Goff another year as a Bridge QB if talents the same, and Jared Goffs pretty good. The answer really is he's a bad QB, and you think it too. You just don't wanna own up to it coming in here and pimping him as a really good bridge/stop gap QB that'll help us out and wanna blame the rest of the team(which is a HUGE problem no one is saying it isn't). Goff though, is part of that problem now too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimbaWho Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 (edited) 21 hours ago, Louis Friend said: So you're not ready to write off Holmes, but you're ready to write off Dan Campbell, Penei Sewell and SFH? This is all of their first season with the Lions. My issue is, you believe you have more foresight than everyone else, but you waffle just as much and contradict yourself constantly. It's okay to be confident, but there is a fine line between confidence and cockiness. Lions didn't "win" the Stafford trade. I also don't remember anyone anointing the move as "the greatest trade in DETROIT sports history". Stafford asked to be traded, preferably to a contender. Lions went out and got numerous good offers, and took the one that was best for themselves and Matthew Stafford. Jared Goff wasn't what made the trade good for Detroit. Two 1st rd picks, a 3rd rd pick, and doing right by their star QB, after being black listed for Calvin Johnson running his mouth since retirement, made this a good deal for Detroit. It gives them pieces to build. Not for this season, but for 3 years down the road. How anyone can look at this trade less than one season later and judge it is baffling. Just because you really don't wanna not like me. Doesn't mean you get to make things up. I said I thought Penei Sewell was generational. He's clearly not, doesn't mean he's not good/bust but he's not a generational talent like Walter Jones.(Which is what I thought.) If you wanna say he is, fine. I'm planting my flag and saying he's not but could still be a really good tackle in this league. Big difference between generational talent who comes along once in a decade or two and a top 15 tackle in the league at any given time. An I'm not writing off Dan Campbell or Homes just yet but it's trending downwards, they've got a major off-season to shake the deck and see how they handle Goff/QB situation. Even in the original post which you clearly didn't read or read well enough, I left the door open for them to prove my feelings wrong. Literally saying it's not my style but I'll see whats up. Quote Well idk, Just me thinking but it almost guarantees you'll suck for 2-3 years, just enough time for guys you drafted to buyout of whatever you're preaching. Just enough of Jared Goff to sabotage the whole rebuild imo, Just late enough picks to no matter enough. Just not my style. I'll wait to see whats up. But It seems like his players and destined to buy out from losing their first three years in. I don't see anything happening with this team with Jared Goff as a starter, so now is the time to find his replacement and who knows how long that'll take before we actually get it right. And I'm not looking at the trade one year later. That was the night of the trade. Keeping Jared Goff around hasn't played out yet either but, keep him here another season or two and see where the direction of this rebuild goes, wait till year 3 or 4 to look for a QB, while assuming the picks you've had actually turn into players... (Big assumption). The whole thing is a pretty fluid situation for the staff on success/failure so to sit there and tell me I'm cocky for an opinion over a year ago that's playing out in front of you in real time is... Whatever. I wouldn't say the rebuild right now has much to hang it's hat on, and some moves this staff has made are down right wrong/not good. Doesn't mean they're failures either, and you're trying to make me say they are. I'm telling you I've not felt good about Jared Goff being here with Holmes and how that relationship could ruin the rebuild cause Goff isn't good enough, the picks might be too late to grab impact players and a future QB isn't just something teams always find. They still have the ability to make a grand slam move like trading for Russell Wilson(NOT happening) for cheap and drafting some serious talent which obviously would trump everything done in year 1 and anything associating themselves with Goff. What I actually didn't account for is Goff being this bad to where its obvious you have to move on after year one. Edited November 25, 2021 by SimbaWho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehardlionfan Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 On 11/22/2021 at 4:23 PM, jrry32 said: Goff was able to get Robert Woods, Brandin Cooks, and Cooper Kupp the ball. Something tells me that he could get Calvin Johnson the ball. I hope the Lions do get rid of him after this year. Dude doesn't have the talent to lift the worst WR corp in the NFL and a shaky OL. The shakey oline would be just fine if Goff didn’t take 10 yard drops or spin into pressure. I don’t know how many Lions games you’ve actually watched but Goff routinely misses wide open receivers. He can’t seem to move beyond his second receiver in a progression. Ya, the WR group sucks which is made worse by Goffs limited ability He’s an extremely limited QB. Let’s not forget the Rams traded him along with a bunch of draft capital. Obviously the Rams didn’t feel he could do the job. Theres allot wrong with the Lions. But there’s also some real positive aspects. Goff is part of the problem and no team can overcome his deficiencies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 2 hours ago, diehardlionfan said: The shakey oline would be just fine if Goff didn’t take 10 yard drops or spin into pressure. I don’t know how many Lions games you’ve actually watched but Goff routinely misses wide open receivers. He can’t seem to move beyond his second receiver in a progression. Ya, the WR group sucks which is made worse by Goffs limited ability He’s an extremely limited QB. Let’s not forget the Rams traded him along with a bunch of draft capital. Obviously the Rams didn’t feel he could do the job. Theres allot wrong with the Lions. But there’s also some real positive aspects. Goff is part of the problem and no team can overcome his deficiencies. I'm enjoying this young, feisty defense. They are doing considerably better than ever expected with all of the injuries, lack of name talent and an abysmal offense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionArkie Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 (edited) … Edited November 25, 2021 by LionArkie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 3 hours ago, diehardlionfan said: The shakey oline would be just fine if Goff didn’t take 10 yard drops or spin into pressure. I don’t know how many Lions games you’ve actually watched but Goff routinely misses wide open receivers. He can’t seem to move beyond his second receiver in a progression. Ya, the WR group sucks which is made worse by Goffs limited ability He’s an extremely limited QB. Let’s not forget the Rams traded him along with a bunch of draft capital. Obviously the Rams didn’t feel he could do the job. Theres allot wrong with the Lions. But there’s also some real positive aspects. Goff is part of the problem and no team can overcome his deficiencies. The Rams did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimbaWho Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 (edited) 23 minutes ago, jrry32 said: The Rams did. Did they? Looks like they moved on, imo. I mean we all know you got to the superbowl but, idk if that's over-coming Goff or not. Star RB went down and QB got exposed idk... Edited November 25, 2021 by SimbaWho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, SimbaWho said: Did they? Looks like they moved on, imo. Moving on has nothing to do with whether they overcame his deficiencies lol. They had four straight winning seasons, a Super Bowl appearance, three playoff appearances, and won a playoff game with him last year. For all his problems, the Rams won with Goff. Edited November 25, 2021 by jrry32 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimbaWho Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 (edited) 24 minutes ago, jrry32 said: Moving on has nothing to do with whether they overcame his deficiencies lol. They had four straight winning seasons, a Super Bowl appearance, three playoff appearances, and won a playoff game with him last year. For all his problems, the Rams won with Goff. Ok, now it's a nuanced argument about what is success now? Winning with Jared Goff on a super bowl quality roster is technically over-coming Jared Goffs talent deficiencies but it's not meeting expectations of the team. You know what Diehard's meaning was behind that statement. Good teams can't win super-bowls with Goff, Bad teams can't make playoffs, Terrible teams can't even win games. Teams cannot get to that next level with Jared Goff leading that way. Rams goal during that time was to win super-bowls not to pay Jared Goff so they could over come his deficiencies and trade him away two or three years later. Edited November 25, 2021 by SimbaWho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 3 minutes ago, SimbaWho said: Ok, now it's a nuanced argument about what is success now? Winning with Jared Goff on a super bowl quality roster is technically over-coming Jared Goffs talent deficiencies but it's not meeting expectations of the team. You know what Diehard's meaning was behind that statement. Good teams can't win super-bowls with Goff, Bad teams can't make playoffs, Terrible teams can't even win games. Teams cannot get to that next level with Jared Goff leading that way. Rams goal during that time was to win super-bowls not to pay Jared Goff so they could over come his deficiencies and trade him away two or three years later. You could say the same for any number of QBs. Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, and Ben Roethlisberger are all HOF QBs. The last time one of those three won a Super Bowl was the 2010-11 season. The vast majority of QBs can't lead bad teams to the playoffs. About the only thing you can hang on him is not winning games this year. Fact of the matter is that Goff has proven he can play competent football and win games with a good team and a good system. So this idea that no team can overcome Goff, he's completely incapable of playing QB, and is such an anchor on this team, well, it sounds to me like scapegoating one guy for a terrible offense and a coaching staff that isn't performing. I hope the Lions do get rid of him. He's not going to pick this team up. But if they don't address the myriad of other issues with this offense and coaching staff, they're not going to magically get better with a different QB. And y'all will be left blaming a new QB for the team's deficiencies. The Lions need talent, and they need better coaching. Hopefully, Campbell and his staff are learning from their mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionArkie Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 (edited) In all fairness, Stafford couldn’t win with the lions either. He made the playoffs once and had a lot better supporting cast than what is on this field right now. In the end, this team top to bottom is really bad. Probably the worst team in the 35 years I’ve been watching. I don’t know how you can put that on one player or position group. Edited November 25, 2021 by LionArkie 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehardlionfan Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 7 hours ago, Karnage84 said: I'm enjoying this young, feisty defense. They are doing considerably better than ever expected with all of the injuries, lack of name talent and an abysmal offense. The defence has had a reasonable year. Lots of learning with the young players. When you consider the injuries and time on the field they’ve been performing better than I anticipated. A pash rush would improve the unit greatly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehardlionfan Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 Goff had his best game as a Lion. Todays loss is on the coaches specifically DC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionArkie Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 Speaking of young players, one thing I would like to see happen in free agency is the lions sign some vets from winning organizations who have played at a high level to teach these young guys how to win. Similar to when we brought Tulloch and Vanden Bosch on when Schwartz was here. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nnivolcm Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 Imo Goff broke during the Superbowl. I was hoping being traded would put a chip on his shoulder for him to fix himself but it only appears to have magnified the damage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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