Week 12: Jets vs Texans

[Heymangold]

2 hours ago, doumeyer said:

Most all check downs except for the good pass to Barrios, you have to look at the Pathetic team we were playing today. 

Everyone was dying for him to throw the check down in the beginning of the season!

[drew39k]

1 hour ago, xrade said:

IMO that would be bad for two reasons. First the drop in the draft. As much as we all want to see the Jets win, we still lack talent all over the place.

Secondly, and this may be even a bigger reason, is the mirage it would generate. Fans and the media will forget the way we played and expectations will be higher than they should next season. We saw this after Gase’s first year when we closed out the season strong against crap teams. Remember the utter disappointment the following season?  Also, I would be afraid the coaching staff and FO will think we are better than we really are. Would they forsake obvious needs because they were not as apparent during a strong finish. For instance, we need to upgrade the OL. Would they think rolling with what we have now is good enough because of a few meaningless wins?

I would much rather look competitive especially on O and even more specifically at QB. Let’s see Zach play like an real NFL QB. Let’s see the O give him time. If we look good on O and we lose because of our D, it would be par for the course and the FO would know what we need to do. The false image of wins may cloud that. 

You would be unhappy if the Jets finished the season 8-9, having had a four-five game winning streak with the youngest team in the league, a rookie HC and a rookie OC? 

The value of learning how to win as a team is far more important than a higher draft pick. We've stacked losing season and high picks. It hasn't gotten us anywhere. There isn't one guy in this draft that will be available to us that is going to magically make us so much better. Even if there was a guy, would you trust us to draft and develop him? 

[Bobby816]

10 hours ago, KBS756 said:

Defense played well all around for the most part 

Yes. Besides Hall getting burned a couple times… they played decent actually. Given it was arguably (with us) the worst offense in the league… so it’s no “great” performance. But JFM was the 1 and only bright spot today. Have 0 good to say about anyone else.

[xrade]

1 hour ago, drew39k said:

The value of learning how to win as a team is far more important than a higher draft pick

The draft pick is just a minor thing compared to looking competitive, as I stated. I will reemphasize my take that winning all the rest of the games to get 8 wins would fool all of us into thinking maybe we are OK. We saw that movie two years ago. I want us to look like an NFL team on O and D rather than just scoring a few more points against a crap opponent.

Do you feel good about todays win?  Would you feel good if they played the exact same way against Jax and squeaked out a win?  I want to see good play from Zach and continued progress from the rest of the O. I want to see better play from the DL kind of like today. To me, those are more important for this year.

IIRC, weren’t people saying Detroit would beat us and they have 0 wins. Why is that?  Why were we an underdog today?  Does anyone have confidence we could beat Jax, ATM?  Those are the things playing well will change.

I just don’t want to go into the offseason thinking the OL is OK or the defensive backfield does not need attention as examples.  Winning 8 games could cause that mirage and I would be concerned they would not be properly addressed.  That is the gist of my saying 8 wins would be bad. Learning to win is important, no doubt. But winning because you play well game to game is when players really learn and not beating a less talented opponent who happened to play crappier than you on Sunday.

I would much rather pick in the 20’s because we are good and deserving of that. Not because we just sucked a little less.

[KingOfNewYork]

6 hours ago, Abe56 said:

For whatever reason their is a part of the Jets fan base rooting for Zach to fail and will do so no matter what

But im gonna enjoy this W 

There’s always part of the fan base that wants players they didn’t want to fail. Only to be able to yell I told you so, for whatever reason. Same fans who were crying for Darnold the first 3 weeks and now they’ve gone silent about him.

[doumeyer]

What I don't understand is how anybody can get excited about beating Houston yesterday. Both our TD's came on two penalties one was a personal foul and the other came on a unsportsman like penalty. We had no downfield passing game at all. I have to agree with Bobby816 and Ekillo9x. nobody stood out in this game except Franklin Meyers & Quincy Williams. All the hype Wilson got coming into the season, sure hasn't shown up on the field. Down the road Wilson should be fine QB, but right now he is showing very little. We have the weapons on offensive now so he can't use that as a excuse.

Mac Jones, came into the league with very little hype and look at him yesterday he played well,23 for32 for 310 yards 2 TD's & 0 INT's, when are we going to see a game like that from Wilson?

Edited November 29, 2021 by doumeyer

[TheChad]

Great team effort to get the W and keep the dream of a winning season alive for one more week.

 

That was a god-tier effort by the defense after getting roasted the last few weeks. John F'in Myers with the mirror of Lawson's play against the Bengals. 5 sacks (2 from JFM) and just a dominating performance, particularly in the second half. Until their final drive, the Texans had -6 net passing yards in the second half. I don't care who you're playing, that deserves a ton of credit. As we've seen, our D needs the DL to dominate to play well, but it's fun to see when that happens.

Our run blocking was also very solid in this game I thought. A good sign.

 

The difficult thing for the coaches is this though: Zach Wilson gives us the worst chance of winning out of any of the QBs on the roster. If you're serious about winning games: I don't think you can start him again this season. If you're building for the future and looking for development, then that's different. Still though, he needs a lot of work on his short to intermediate accuracy and that doesn't have to come from games.

[TheChad]

I mean, it's hard not to love this:

 

[Bobby816]

I get it… let’s enjoy the win. 
But come on…. It was the Houston Texans. Arguably the worst team in the league. So let’s not act like we played great. The defense needs respect (not praised). Bc they did their job. But as I mentioned… it was the Texans. So if we didn’t play good against that offense, it would be big time worrisome. But they did their job (especially the DL).

BUT…… let’s not forget how bad Houston’s defense is and we couldn’t move the ball against them. If it wasn’t for a JFM INT and return and some dumb penalties from HOU… we maybe don’t even win. Wilson was garbage. Plain and simple. He looked no better than he did before getting injured. And against an awful defense.

 

DL is the only positive of this game.

[TheChad]

2 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

I get it… let’s enjoy the win. 
But come on…. It was the Houston Texans. Arguably the worst team in the league. So let’s not act like we played great. The defense needs respect (not praised). Bc they did their job. But as I mentioned… it was the Texans. So if we didn’t play good against that offense, it would be big time worrisome. But they did their job (especially the DL).

BUT…… let’s not forget how bad Houston’s defense is and we couldn’t move the ball against them. If it wasn’t for a JFM INT and return and some dumb penalties from HOU… we maybe don’t even win. Wilson was garbage. Plain and simple. He looked no better than he did before getting injured. And against an awful defense.

 

DL is the only positive of this game.

The Texans had the same number of wins going into this game as we did. We have no leg to stand on in saying "it's just the Texans". They would have been saying the same thing about us if they won: "Don't get excited, it was only the Jets".

 

The Texans have allowed 17 passing TDs on defense but have 14 INTs. We by contrast are at 19:4. They even have the same number of sacks as us, and are similar against the run. There's plenty of argument that the Texans defense has been better than ours overall. And if you only include our games with Zach, I'm sure their offense has been better than ours too.

 

I'm inclined to note that the defense is suffering heavily from injuries as it has all year (both starting safeties, Lawson obviously, and Huff), and also missing Carter, Becton, and Davis on offense. Add on to that Wilson coming back from injury, and pulling out a win against any NFL team is worth a bit of celebration. That second half we had, against any NFL team, is a great sign.

 

And hey, we were 0-11 at this point last season. We've got to enjoy something.

[Bobby816]

5 minutes ago, TheChad said:

The Texans had the same number of wins going into this game as we did. We have no leg to stand on in saying "it's just the Texans". They would have been saying the same thing about us if they won: "Don't get excited, it was only the Jets".

 

The Texans have allowed 17 passing TDs on defense but have 14 INTs. We by contrast are at 19:4. They even have the same number of sacks as us, and are similar against the run. There's plenty of argument that the Texans defense has been better than ours overall. And if you only include our games with Zach, I'm sure their offense has been better than ours too.

 

I'm inclined to note that the defense is suffering heavily from injuries as it has all year (both starting safeties, Lawson obviously, and Huff), and also missing Carter, Becton, and Davis on offense. Add on to that Wilson coming back from injury, and pulling out a win against any NFL team is worth a bit of celebration. That second half we had, against any NFL team, is a great sign.

 

And hey, we were 0-11 at this point last season. We've got to enjoy something.

I hear ya and don't disagree to enjoy what we can as an awful franchise.

But this season was about Wilson getting better as the year went on. And especially after sitting and able to see the way this system is supposed to run for a month and an awful defense.

14/24 145yds 1 rush TD and 1 INT. That's BAD!!!

Especially after seeing guys like White, Johnson and even Flacco look WAY better in his absence.

I by no means have given up on Wilson, that'd be idiotic to do 2/3 through his rookie year. But it is worrisome that through this time he really has never looked good. Pretty much at all. Rookie QBs with awful rookie years who succeed. All seemed to at least get better as the year went on.

Wilson has played 6.5 games. In that time frame he has a stat line of..... 4 pass TDs and 1 rush TD. That's averaging less than a TD every 5 quarters. He has thrown 10 INTs in that time frame. So he has a 4:10 ratio throwing the ball. He has an awful 57% completion percentage and averages less than 200yds per game throwing. So he's not throwing TDs and he's turning the ball over more than twice as much as he's scoring.

For comparison (since he's brought up all the time as a poor rookie) Peyton in his rookie year had 26 TD passes and 28 INTs. So almost a 1:1 ratio where Wilson is worse than a 1:2 ratio. And he's just not throwing TDs like Peyton was. Peyton's passer rating was 10 points higher than that of Wilsons as a rookie as well. And averaged more than 50yds passing per game than that of Wilson. So ya Peyton was far from a god rookie. But Wilson is nearly twice as bad. And it's not like Wilson has nothing around him. He has WRs and RBs to help him and a serviceable OL. The excuses for Wilson just aren't holding up with me. Especially when we see below average QBs throwing for 400yds and multiple TDs when he was out.

It just hasn't came close to clicking for the kid. And of course we shouldn't give up on him. But he needs to start earning snaps. Not just given snaps.

[TheChad]

Oh for sure. On that I totally agree. It's a hard sell to put Wilson out there at this point simply because he was a high pick and we want him to be progressing. He's not right now (at any noticeable pace), so get him to sit and watch and work on his fundamentals and his accuracy until he's really ready. Sitting a raw rookie QB is not a bad thing (though obviously it would've been better to not put him out there in the first place if he wasn't ready). We have three other QBs here that have proven that they can run the offense better than him. A lot better. "Most yards in the league during that span" better. It would be unfair to them, and the other players here wanting to win games, to keep starting Wilson because of how happy we'd be if he lit it up.

 

I know some fall into the camp of "you only get better by playing", but his accuracy and tendancy to fire bullets for 5 yard passes seem to be solvable problems for practice.

[Bobby816]

12 minutes ago, TheChad said:

Oh for sure. On that I totally agree. It's a hard sell to put Wilson out there at this point simply because he was a high pick and we want him to be progressing. He's not right now (at any noticeable pace), so get him to sit and watch and work on his fundamentals and his accuracy until he's really ready. Sitting a raw rookie QB is not a bad thing (though obviously it would've been better to not put him out there in the first place if he wasn't ready). We have three other QBs here that have proven that they can run the offense better than him. A lot better. "Most yards in the league during that span" better. It would be unfair to them, and the other players here wanting to win games, to keep starting Wilson because of how happy we'd be if he lit it up.

 

I know some fall into the camp of "you only get better by playing", but his accuracy and tendancy to fire bullets for 5 yard passes seem to be solvable problems for practice.

We're on the same page.

It's smart to keep playing him if you see progress, he's giving you the best chance to win and there's no one better than them behind them.

None of this is the case right now.

He isn't progressing. After seeing the offense ran very good while he was out. He did awful yesterday.

He doesn't give us the bets chance to win. Yes we won yesterday, but not bc of him. It was arguably in spite of him. The games we lost while he was out wasn't all on the offense. It was mostly on the defense. The 4 games he missed, the offense looked good in 3/4 of those games. It wouldn't have been a close game yesterday if we started one of the other guys yesterday. We probably would've won comfortably.

The development of this team is beyond just Wilson. Was Moore not progressing more without Wilson? Carter looked great while Wilson was out. The OL held up nice without Wilson. 

[GangGreen420]

Just watched most of the game, I don’t know how you can come away not being terrified about ZW. He looks like the same player, still seems unsure where to go with the ball, missed easy throws and even his completions weren’t very accurate.

I don’t care if we beat the Texans. Bobby is 100% right. I know it’s nice to learn to win, but ZW looking great and getting the L would have been more important for this franchise than what we saw yesterday. Hopefully he gradually gets better as we finish the year 

[jetsfan4life51]

One positive...the coaching has seemed to improve.

We may not have figured out QB but the defense can take a huge step forward next season if handled correctly this offseason and another pick on the OL will really help out.  Unfortunately the QB may end up holding us back.