Sugashane Posted December 29, 2021 Share Posted December 29, 2021 6 hours ago, Heinz D. said: I'm not even sure I would prefer Payton to a lot of other guys out there. If the Bears go out and trade a lot of draft picks for Payton, I may have to follow another team. Heinz wants McDaniels in Chicago - confirmed. 😁 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted December 29, 2021 Share Posted December 29, 2021 15 hours ago, Heinz D. said: I'm not even sure I would prefer Payton to a lot of other guys out there. If the Bears go out and trade a lot of draft picks for Payton, I may have to follow another team. I think it’s fair to wonder how much of Payton’s success was due to Brees. He didn’t really develop him so much as inherit him just as he entered his prime. That kind of fell into his lap, and to his credit he knew exactly what to do with it once he had it. When he’s had anything resembling actual talent at QB (meaning not Hill/Siemien/Book) he’s been successful. He coached the interception-happiness out of Winston. Bridgewater had his best stretches under him. Neither of those guys has near the physical tools of Fields either. All of that said, would I trade for Payton? No. Not only can we not afford to give up more rebuild assets, but doing so this offseason would almost certainly require the 2022 1st round pick we already don’t have anyway. Also, Payton signed off on drafting Ian Book (who carried a fringe draftable grade with pretty much everyone) in the 4th round and he also signed off on whatever Taysom Hill is as a long term thing for the post-Brees era. Both of those moves give me big questions. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted December 29, 2021 Share Posted December 29, 2021 9 hours ago, Sugashane said: Heinz wants McDaniels in Chicago - confirmed. 😁 You know we’d get a real NFL offense out of it. We just might get a bit of a lunatic too. That sounds like dangerous fun, which is one of the best kinds IMO. That said, I like to gamble. 🤷♂️ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted December 29, 2021 Share Posted December 29, 2021 5 hours ago, AZBearsFan said: You know we’d get a real NFL offense out of it. We just might get a bit of a lunatic too. That sounds like dangerous fun, which is one of the best kinds IMO. That said, I like to gamble. 🤷♂️ Obviously I wouldn't mind. Literally married into that exact situation. 12 years of marriage and I still have a ton of fun and just enough fear to keep me alert. 😅 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted December 29, 2021 Share Posted December 29, 2021 16 hours ago, Sugashane said: Heinz wants McDaniels in Chicago - confirmed. 😁 6 hours ago, AZBearsFan said: You know we’d get a real NFL offense out of it. We just might get a bit of a lunatic too. That sounds like dangerous fun, which is one of the best kinds IMO. That said, I like to gamble. 🤷♂️ I'm not even convinced of that. The next guy from the Belichick "tree" (more like a withered, noxious weed than a proper tree, really) who succeeds as a head coach will be the first. They've all failed, to one degree, or another. Makes me wonder if Belichick doesn't pick his coaches like he picks many of his players. Guys who have particular talents that Belichick can use to his advantage...but not a whole helluva lot more than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 2 hours ago, Heinz D. said: I'm not even convinced of that. The next guy from the Belichick "tree" (more like a withered, noxious weed than a proper tree, really) who succeeds as a head coach will be the first. They've all failed, to one degree, or another. Makes me wonder if Belichick doesn't pick his coaches like he picks many of his players. Guys who have particular talents that Belichick can use to his advantage...but not a whole helluva lot more than that. I dunno… he was 19th and 20th in scoring in his 2 years as HC in Denver with well known game manager Kyle Orton as his primary starter and was able to get a 1400 yard season out of Brandon Lloyd. Maybe don’t give him direct control over personnel, but if that’s not making something useful out of some pretty rotten ingredients… He can coach offense. That I have no question about. It’s all the other stuff that’s in question with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 7 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said: I dunno… he was 19th and 20th in scoring in his 2 years as HC in Denver with well known game manager Kyle Orton as his primary starter and was able to get a 1400 yard season out of Brandon Lloyd. Maybe don’t give him direct control over personnel, but if that’s not making something useful out of some pretty rotten ingredients… He can coach offense. That I have no question about. It’s all the other stuff that’s in question with him. Yeah. Exactly. Why he shouldn't be a head coach, for any team wanting a reasonable hire. And I don't think the universal abject failure of Belichick assistants should be casually disregarded, either. The next head coach is a BIG decision for the Bears. McDaniels shouldn't even be in the conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 2 hours ago, Heinz D. said: Yeah. Exactly. Why he shouldn't be a head coach, for any team wanting a reasonable hire. And I don't think the universal abject failure of Belichick assistants should be casually disregarded, either. The next head coach is a BIG decision for the Bears. McDaniels shouldn't even be in the conversation. Counterpoint: Using the Belichick thing to say you shouldn’t hire McDaniels is no different than saying you shouldn’t have drafted Fields because no OSU QB has ever excelled in the NFL. Or that GB shouldn’t have taken Rodgers because he was a Tedford guy. Counterpoint 1a: It’s entirely possible that McDaniels actually learned from his missteps in Denver 11-12 years ago. Not a given, but certainly can’t be dismissed. IMO, the Belichick disciples have failed because they tried to be Belichick at their new gigs, and they aren’t him. One would think McDaniels if given the opportunity wouldn’t make that mistake again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 McDaniels is risky, but I don’t think he’s any more risky than any of the other candidates. Just differently risky. I can live with that, but I can see why others might be more apprehensive about him than some of the “unknown” coordinator candidates too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 Really good read, which hits on both sides of the argument on McDaniels. The more I look into the candidates, the more he’s the guy I want us to hire. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 (edited) 12 hours ago, AZBearsFan said: Counterpoint: Using the Belichick thing to say you shouldn’t hire McDaniels is no different than saying you shouldn’t have drafted Fields because no OSU QB has ever excelled in the NFL. Or that GB shouldn’t have taken Rodgers because he was a Tedford guy. The McDaniels/Fields argument is a silly one, and I'm guessing you probably know that. McDaniels has also already failed as a head coach. GB sat Rodgers for a long time so they could break his bad habits and fix his throwing motion. Rodgers also wasn't a really high pick, and the Packers already had a good QB--even though he was threatening to retire about every other week. 12 hours ago, AZBearsFan said: Counterpoint 1a: It’s entirely possible that McDaniels actually learned from his missteps in Denver 11-12 years ago. Not a given, but certainly can’t be dismissed. IMO, the Belichick disciples have failed because they tried to be Belichick at their new gigs, and they aren’t him. One would think McDaniels if given the opportunity wouldn’t make that mistake again. Now you're concocting stories and hunches to justify your position. That doesn't mean that you are wrong about any of that, necessarily. It could be that you are 100% right...but there's only one way to find out. McDaniels name keeps coming up in connection with the job, so you may well get your wish. Then, we all pray to the football gods that I am dead wrong about Josh McDaniels. Edited December 30, 2021 by Heinz D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Buck Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 I sure hope Sean Payton doesn't end up in Chicago. I like the Bears and I want to be able to keep liking them. At the same time, I positively despise Payton more than any other single person currently associated with the NFL. It is to the point where if the Saints are playing the Packers, I would cheer for the Packers, just so Payton would lose. I would rather bring Urban Meyer back to the Jaguars than to see them coached by Sean Payton. That's what I think of the guy. As you guys said though, the chances are that he won't be coming to Chicago, so it's not a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbear72 Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Heinz D. said: The McDaniels/Fields argument is a silly one, and I'm guessing you probably know that. McDaniels has also already failed as a head coach. GB sat Rodgers for a long time so they could break his bad habits and fix his throwing motion. Rodgers also wasn't a really high pick, and the Packers already had a good QB--even though he was threatening to retire about every other week. Now you're concocting stories and hunches to justify your position. That doesn't mean that you are wrong about any of that, necessarily. It could be that you are 100% right...but there's only one way to find out. McDaniels name keeps coming up in connection with the job, so you may well get your wish. Then, we all pray to the football gods that I am dead wrong about Josh McDaniels. I can understand there being some reservation in hiring McDaniels but I think he may be unfairly criticized for his previous transgressions. You did point out, as many others have, his previous stint with Denver. He definitely wet the bed there, however, I would like to point out that most people across all industries who are successful experience significant failure early in their careers (Michael Jordan and Belichick are obvious examples). A lot of people need to experience failure in order to grow. By all accounts he probably is the strongest offensive mind being considered for this hiring cycle. There is something else that needs to be pointed out. We keep stating that we don't want to hire people from the Belichick coaching tree due to lack of success. Who in this era of football has a strong coaching tree for us to poach from? Say what you want about BoB, but he had decent success with the Texans until he took over GM duties. Vrabel is not doing bad with the Titans either. My point is, we tend to make judgements about individuals and put them into this "box" and never want to let them out of it. If any of us were judged by our early professional failures (and we all have them) where would we be? If not given second and third opportunities despite our pass decisions or failures must of us would probably not have the chance to ever experience success. Just my thoughts on the topic in general. Edited December 30, 2021 by Bigbear72 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 47 minutes ago, Bigbear72 said: By all accounts (McDaniels) probably is the strongest offensive mind being considered for this hiring cycle. Well, the Bears beat writers are mostly aquiver about the guy, that's for sure. Nothing about McDaniels career screams he's head and shoulders above Moore, Daboll, or Leftwich though. (To me, at least.) 48 minutes ago, Bigbear72 said: Who is this era of football has a strong coaching tree for us to poach from? It's not like back in the day, is it? Maybe the Bears should just go with Doug Pederson or Ryan Day? 48 minutes ago, Bigbear72 said: Vrabel is not doing bad with the Titans either. Good point. You got me there. Always forget him, and he's done a fine job in Tennessee. 59 minutes ago, Uncle Buck said: I would rather bring Urban Meyer back to the Jaguars than to see them coached by Sean Payton. That's what I think of the guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Buck Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 1 minute ago, Heinz D. said: Well, the Bears beat writers are mostly aquiver about the guy, that's for sure. Nothing about McDaniels career screams he's head and shoulders above Moore, Daboll, or Leftwich though. (To me, at least.) It's not like back in the day, is it? Maybe the Bears should just go with Doug Pederson or Ryan Day? Good point. You got me there. Always forget him, and he's done a fine job in Tennessee. Bountygate was disgraceful. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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