Former NFL player Phillip Adams found to have severe CTE / Discussion on CTE and the future of the NFL

[Shanedorf]

1 hour ago, Packerraymond said:

Football is not going anywhere because the sheltering parents of the world have pulled their kids out of it. That's a drop in the bucket to what would be necessary to hurt the future of the game.

I think you're right. I also think it may end up being a Game of the Gods in a few decades. Elite athletes marrying elite athletes and producing elite athletes. Football in its infancy was a game for the common man, but that was 75 years ago. Now, there's only a puniferous portion of the population athletic enough to make it in the NFL.
I don't think we'll run out of kids who chase the dream, but we're already seeing more Mom's pulling their not - elite kids out of harms way in the lower levels.
Bu that doesn't really affect the NFL - because most of those kids weren't NFL material to begin with. 

The other component I read about ; we often look at this from our privileged perspective.
For some kids in tough environments, football is the easiest and safest thing  they do all week.

[incognito_man]

12 minutes ago, Shanedorf said:

I think you're right. I also think it may end up being a Game of the Gods in a few decades. Elite athletes marrying elite athletes and producing elite athletes. Football in its infancy was a game for the common man, but that was 75 years ago. Now, there's only a puniferous portion of the population athletic enough to make it in the NFL.
I don't think we'll run out of kids who chase the dream, but we're already seeing more Mom's pulling their not - elite kids out of harms way in the lower levels.
Bu that doesn't really affect the NFL - because most of those kids weren't NFL material to begin with. 

The other component I read about ; we often look at this from our privileged perspective.
For some kids in tough environments, football is the easiest and safest thing  they do all week.

I think this elicits a good question: what will dry up first? The supply or the demand? 

Ideally you'd prefer to dry up the supply as a society by making playing football a statistically bad choice for young men to make.

But that involves solving a LOT of problems.

Edited December 16, 2021 by incognito_man

[JAF-N72EX]

5 hours ago, kingseanjohn said:

I think society will eventually move towards online or virtual events. As people become more aware and understanding of the risks of violent sports, they'll opt out or just quit/retire early watering down the quality. ESports is in its infancy and should continue to grow as we get more technologically advanced. I don't think the switch happens in my lifetime, but I also wouldn't be surprised if it did.

It's been heading in this direction for years, even before getting paid to be a "gaming streamer" was a thing like it is now.

Alot of kids these days are now choosing to develop their online "personalities" to help grow their youtube channel or other social media outlets in order to gain money from it in the long run as opposed to working out 6 days a week and taking several hits to the head playing a sport.

 

[ET80]

I think this was sort of assumed, but now it's confirmed...

https://theathletic.com/news/family-of-former-bucs-wr-vincent-jackson-says-brain-researchers-diagnosed-him-with-stage-2-cte/MBT3eRXLGy8J/

[MWil23]

11 hours ago, Shanedorf said:

For some kids in tough environments, football is the easiest and safest thing  they do all week.

Pretty much.

It's in a contained environment, with constant supervision, with (in theory/usually) positive male role models who mostly have college degrees or more, who aren't in it for the money (unless they're at a prep school), and are a part of a team who often is very similar to a large family makeup.

I'm a biased football coach, but this has largely been my experience with a lot of years to boot.

[BullsandBroncos]

I'm an engineer so one thing I have had interest in is helmet technology. I remember years back, Wes Welker was struggling with concussions with us. He was given some sort of custom helmet that looked like it was made in a movie or comic book. Since then, I can't remember catching a single player wearing one like what he had. More research into helmet tech and mouth pieces will go a long way. 
 

 

another thing i would like to see is some research on some of the players recently passed or still alive that played WAY back. 50s, 60s, 70s. Early eighties too when players weren't as big or athletically gifted but still were taking hellacious hits. 

[incognito_man]

44 minutes ago, BullsandBroncos said:

I'm an engineer so one thing I have had interest in is helmet technology. I remember years back, Wes Welker was struggling with concussions with us. He was given some sort of custom helmet that looked like it was made in a movie or comic book. Since then, I can't remember catching a single player wearing one like what he had. More research into helmet tech and mouth pieces will go a long way. 
 

 

another thing i would like to see is some research on some of the players recently passed or still alive that played WAY back. 50s, 60s, 70s. Early eighties too when players weren't as big or athletically gifted but still were taking hellacious hits. 

The biggest study so far was conducted on deceased, older players from those eras. It found that 110/111 had CTE.

[incognito_man]

1 hour ago, ET80 said:

I think this was sort of assumed, but now it's confirmed...

https://theathletic.com/news/family-of-former-bucs-wr-vincent-jackson-says-brain-researchers-diagnosed-him-with-stage-2-cte/MBT3eRXLGy8J/

Very sad all around.

These 2 confirmed cases this week will hopeful re-ignite the conversation and pressure the NFL to fund additional research.

[Kiltman]

1 hour ago, MWil23 said:

Pretty much.

It's in a contained environment, with constant supervision, with (in theory/usually) positive male role models who mostly have college degrees or more, who aren't in it for the money (unless they're at a prep school), and are a part of a team who often is very similar to a large family makeup.

I'm a biased football coach, but this has largely been my experience with a lot of years to boot.

yeah I've had a few kids over the years I coached like that. 
Bad home life or parents wanted them to stay out of trouble. Being in a suburban area was still bad with opioids and all that come with it.

Yeah I don't think it's always the case with the role model thing, hell one of the reasons I went into coaching was I had a lot of awful ones growing up.

It was kind of the most important part of coaching to me, helping those kids who needed that structure or influence in their lives.
I was way more proud changing a kid's whole outlook on life for the better or getting them to open up and make friends than I was the kids I had who went on to play in college.

[MWil23]

3 minutes ago, Kiltman said:

yeah I've had a few kids over the years I coached like that. 
Bad home life or parents wanted them to stay out of trouble. Being in a suburban area was still bad with opioids and all that come with it.

People would be surprised to see what it's like even in the suburbs where I coach for some of these kids.

3 minutes ago, Kiltman said:

Yeah I don't think it's always the case with the role model thing, hell one of the reasons I went into coaching was I had a lot of awful ones growing up.

Again, why I put "in theory" there. From my personal experience, I still maintain that there are more positive than negative, but that's also just my experience.

3 minutes ago, Kiltman said:

It was kind of the most important part of coaching to me, helping those kids who needed that structure or influence in their lives.

No doubt. Everything else is secondary IMO

3 minutes ago, Kiltman said:

I was way more proud changing a kid's whole outlook on life for the better or getting them to open up and make friends than I was the kids I had who went on to play in college.

Absolutely!

[Matts4313]

10 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

55 minutes ago, BullsandBroncos said:

I'm an engineer so one thing I have had interest in is helmet technology. I remember years back, Wes Welker was struggling with concussions with us. He was given some sort of custom helmet that looked like it was made in a movie or comic book. Since then, I can't remember catching a single player wearing one like what he had. More research into helmet tech and mouth pieces will go a long way. 
 

 

another thing i would like to see is some research on some of the players recently passed or still alive that played WAY back. 50s, 60s, 70s. Early eighties too when players weren't as big or athletically gifted but still were taking hellacious hits. 

Expand  

The biggest study so far was conducted on deceased, older players from those eras. It found that 110/111 had CTE.

Bullsandbroncos => this was 111 players that were projected to have CTE by family and medical professionals. So this was just confirmation on the known. The person who did the study said that nobody should imply what this means in terms of other players having it or the actual amount of people who its affected. They literally said that they cant even understand the risk that football had for CTE. Basically said there was basically nothing to take away from the study.

 

If Incognito is going to keep pulling up this study, I am going to keep reminding that the doctor who did the study basically shrugged and said "we learned nothing about how the relationship between CTE/NFL"

[incognito_man]

2 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

Bullsandbroncos => this was 111 players that were projected to have CTE by family and medical professionals. So this was just confirmation on the known. The person who did the study said that nobody should imply what this means in terms of other players having it or the actual amount of people who its affected. They literally said that they cant even understand the risk that football had for CTE. Basically said there was basically nothing to take away from the study.

 

If Incognito is going to keep pulling up this study, I am going to keep reminding that the doctor who did the study basically shrugged and said "we learned nothing about how the relationship between CTE/NFL"

Nobody needs you to try to interpret Dr. McKee's stance on CTE. She is very capable of stating her own opinion.

In fact, here is her opinion in the article @ET80 just linked above:

"Vincent Jackson was a brilliant, disciplined, gentle giant whose life began to change in his mid-30s," said Dr. Ann McKee, chief of neuropathology for the VA Boston Healthcare System and director of the BU CTE Center and VA-BU-CLF Brain Bank, in the statement. "He became depressed, with progressive memory loss, problem solving difficulties, paranoia, and eventually extreme social isolation."

“That his brain showed stage 2 CTE should no longer surprise us; these results have become commonplace," McKee added. "What is surprising is that so many football players have died with CTE and so little is being done to make football, at all levels, safer by limiting the number of repetitive subconcussive hits. CTE will not disappear by ignoring it, we need to actively address the risk that football poses to brain health and to support the players who are struggling.”

[Matts4313]

4 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

Nobody needs you to try to interpret Dr. McKee's stance on CTE. She is very capable of stating her own opinion.

Youre right, lets let her speak for herself, again:

“Estimates of prevalence cannot be concluded or implied from this sample,” they write, adding that the latest data don’t allow for any “estimation of the risk of participation in football and neuropathological outcomes.” 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Matts4313

[Kiltman]

1 minute ago, MWil23 said:

People would be surprised to see what it's like even in the suburbs where I coach for some of these kids.

Yeah the poverty line was surprising. Coached in the same area I lived in when I was a kid. Demographics and outside influence seemed to change.
Drugs coming in was there, but no where near as bad. It really can be an issue everywhere.

My sister moved down south to an area where a lot of college players come from, it's like their only mentality to play football as a means to escape the poverty cycle.
Just so sad.

4 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Again, why I put "in theory" there. From my personal experience, I still maintain that there are more positive than negative, but that's also just my experience.

No I think you are right about it being a thing that the parents and kids hope for....even if they don't say it. Just was saying in my experience it unfortunately doesn't work out because of coaches who are there for the wrong reasons or aren't equipped for it.

[incognito_man]

2 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

Youre right, lets let her speak for herself, again:

“Estimates of prevalence cannot be concluded or implied from this sample,” they write, adding that the latest data don’t allow for any “estimation of the risk of participation in football and neuropathological outcomes.” 

ok?

Nobody is claiming otherwise. You're like a broken record on a terrible song that nobody likes.