Week 16 GDT - Tennessee Titans vs San Francisco 49ers

[NFL Network]

19 hours ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Eli Manning was not elite either and won two. Peyton was also FAR from elite in 2015.

So it looks like a decent amount of the SB winners in the last 15 or so years came from teams that did not have elite QB play. 

 

Yes I know a hand full of non elite QB's have won SB's but notice how the Niners franchise is never fortunate enough to win one that way? I'll believe it when I see it when the Niners win a SB with a non elite QB & a middle of the pack scoring offense at best. It's basically no coincidence that no SB wins since 1994 have been a result of no elite QB. I know the Niners would've won more SB's with Steve Young if not for the Packers & Cowboys beating them in crucial NFC playoff games in the 90's.

[Forge]

6 minutes ago, NFL Network said:

Yes I know a hand full of non elite QB's have won SB's but notice how the Niners franchise is never fortunate enough to win one that way?

Same for the majority of the other franchises

It's crazy, but winning super bowls is hard and sometimes kind of random

[J-ALL-DAY]

11 minutes ago, NFL Network said:

Yes I know a hand full of non elite QB's have won SB's but notice how the Niners franchise is never fortunate enough to win one that way? I'll believe it when I see it when the Niners win a SB with a non elite QB & a middle of the pack scoring offense at best. It's basically no coincidence that no SB wins since 1994 have been a result of no elite QB. I know the Niners would've won more SB's with Steve Young if not for the Packers & Cowboys beating them in crucial NFC playoff games in the 90's.

There is no fan that would be opposed to getting an elite QB. Every fanbase would love to have one. But you can win SBs without one.. As proven over the years. 

[Forge]

So mcvay is typically a rest your starters guy. If they are locked in, I'd be very curious if they want to rest starters in the final week against the niners or just try and keep them out. I would imagine that there are other teams they'd rather see in the playoffs

[TecmoSuperJoe]

48 minutes ago, NFL Network said:

Yes I know a hand full of non elite QB's have won SB's but notice how the Niners franchise is never fortunate enough to win one that way? I'll believe it when I see it when the Niners win a SB with a non elite QB & a middle of the pack scoring offense at best. It's basically no coincidence that no SB wins since 1994 have been a result of no elite QB. I know the Niners would've won more SB's with Steve Young if not for the Packers & Cowboys beating them in crucial NFC playoff games in the 90's.

So what. The Chargers had Dan Fouts and Philip Rivers and didn't even reach a Super Bowl. The closest they got was with Stan Humphries. Obviously having an elite talent at the QB position helps odds, but it's still significantly difficult with a lot of luck needing to go your way. 

[NFL Network]

50 minutes ago, Forge said:

Same for the majority of the other franchises

It's crazy, but winning super bowls is hard and sometimes kind of random

But since 1994 I've seen numerous franchises rise & fall and some win multiple SB's in different eras e.g. Patriots, Ravens, Bucs. Since the Niners last won in 1994 look at how many different franchises have raised the trophy but we've still seen none? Winning one trophy is so hard to ask for whereas down trodden franchises like the Bucs win one after being dormant for years. A grand total of 14 out of 32 franchises have brought in atleast one SB win since the Niners last won in 1994 and that's just under half of the league. So when's the Niners turn?

[adamq]

53 minutes ago, NFL Network said:

  I know the Niners would've won more SB's with Steve Young if not for the Packers & Cowboys beating them in crucial NFC playoff games in the 90's.

And they would have won more SBs if it wasn't for the ravens or chiefs.. what's your point?

[NFL Network]

Just now, adamq said:

And they would have won more SBs if it wasn't for the ravens or chiefs.. what's your point?

An elite QB like Young & Montana would've beaten the Ravens & Chiefs. 

[adamq]

Just now, NFL Network said:

An elite QB like Young & Montana would've beaten the Ravens & Chiefs. 

Not necessarily.. as you just said Young didn't beat those Cowboys and Packers teams.

 

& if we did have Rodgers instead of Jimmy in 2019 who knows if we even get there. The $15M+ difference in their cap hits would have meant less players elsewhere.

[Forge]

7 minutes ago, NFL Network said:

But since 1994 I've seen numerous franchises rise & fall and some win multiple SB's in different eras e.g. Patriots, Ravens, Bucs. Since the Niners last won in 1994 look at how many different franchises have raised the trophy but we've still seen none? Winning one trophy is so hard to ask for whereas down trodden franchises like the Bucs win one after being dormant for years. A grand total of 14 out of 32 franchises have brought in atleast one SB win since the Niners last won in 1994 and that's just under half of the league. So when's the Niners turn?

Like I said, it's hard and can be random. 

Lions been at this for a while now...

You can be good enough and still not win one. 

[757-NINER]

34 minutes ago, NFL Network said:

But since 1994 I've seen numerous franchises rise & fall and some win multiple SB's in different eras e.g. Patriots, Ravens, Bucs. Since the Niners last won in 1994 look at how many different franchises have raised the trophy but we've still seen none? Winning one trophy is so hard to ask for whereas down trodden franchises like the Bucs win one after being dormant for years. A grand total of 14 out of 32 franchises have brought in atleast one SB win since the Niners last won in 1994 and that's just under half of the league. So when's the Niners turn?

Each case study is different and unique. You act as if we haven't had our opportunities also. We made two SBs in the span of 7 years. We didn't capitalize on the opportunities but they were there to be had. How many did guys like Rodgers and Brees make in that time?

Edited December 27, 2021 by 757-NINER

[NFL Network]

17 minutes ago, adamq said:

Not necessarily.. as you just said Young didn't beat those Cowboys and Packers teams.

 

& if we did have Rodgers instead of Jimmy in 2019 who knows if we even get there. The $15M+ difference in their cap hits would have meant less players elsewhere.

Young couldn't beat the Cowboys in 92 & 93 b/c the defense was junk in those games and the offensive line couldn't block a revenge minded Charles Haley. In 1994 the Niners spent on a defense and the offense was able to score on the Cowboys in the 1994 NFC title game at the same rate that they did to others and they actually pass blocked Charles Haley and didn't have to worry about playing from behind b/c the defense didn't put them in holes like they did in 92 & 93. 

Steve Young couldn't get the Niners past the Packers in 95-97 b/c Favre saved his best for the Niners and Reggie White did to them what Charles Haley did to them in 92 & 93. When Young finally beat the Packers in 98 it was a year too late as they were a wildcard team by then and didn't have a defense that could win a SB and thus lost to the Falcons the following week. 

With Rodgers in 2019 the Niners would sure be one of the elite teams in the NFL and it would've crippled a rival e.g. Packers. The only other foe in the NFC that year was the Seahawks and possibly Saints. In a SB with Rodgers the Niners are able to keep up with the Chiefs and outscore them.

[TecmoSuperJoe]

1 hour ago, NFL Network said:

An elite QB like Young & Montana would've beaten the Ravens & Chiefs. 

Tom Brady lost to the 2007 Giants with one of the best rosters ever. Being elite doesn't guarantee squat. 

Edited December 27, 2021 by TecmoSuperJoe

[TecmoSuperJoe]

55 minutes ago, NFL Network said:

Young couldn't beat the Cowboys in 92 & 93 b/c the defense was junk in those games and the offensive line couldn't block a revenge minded Charles Haley. In 1994 the Niners spent on a defense and the offense was able to score on the Cowboys in the 1994 NFC title game at the same rate that they did to others and they actually pass blocked Charles Haley and didn't have to worry about playing from behind b/c the defense didn't put them in holes like they did in 92 & 93. 

Steve Young couldn't get the Niners past the Packers in 95-97 b/c Favre saved his best for the Niners and Reggie White did to them what Charles Haley did to them in 92 & 93. When Young finally beat the Packers in 98 it was a year too late as they were a wildcard team by then and didn't have a defense that could win a SB and thus lost to the Falcons the following week. 

With Rodgers in 2019 the Niners would sure be one of the elite teams in the NFL and it would've crippled a rival e.g. Packers. The only other foe in the NFC that year was the Seahawks and possibly Saints. In a SB with Rodgers the Niners are able to keep up with the Chiefs and outscore them.

In that 1992 championship game Steve Young made his fair share of screwups that contributed to the loss. Like the pick over the middle where he wasn't under pressure and threw it right into Ken Norton's hands. Or that interception to James Washington late in the game that sealed the deal for Dallas. Steve Young as elite as he was, had his dumb playoff performances that hurt his team's chances as much as anyone else in a loss. Even in that 1998 playoff game in Atlanta the 49ers had a chance to win without Garrison Hearst, but  Young threw two interceptions while the offense was in Falcons territory (one with the offense inside the 5 yard line). Outside of that 1994 campaign, Young didn't play that well in the playoffs. 

Edited December 27, 2021 by TecmoSuperJoe

[NFL Network]

11 minutes ago, TecmoSuperJoe said:

In that 1992 championship game Steve Young made his fair share of screwups that contributed to the loss. Like the pick over the middle where he wasn't under pressure and threw it right into Ken Norton's hands. Or that interception to James Washington late in the game that sealed the deal for Dallas. Steve Young as elite as he was, had his dumb playoff performances that hurt his team's chances as much as anyone else in a loss. Even in that 1998 playoff game in Atlanta the 49ers had a chance to win without Garrison Hearst, but  Young threw two interceptions while the offense was in Falcons territory (one with the offense inside the 5 yard line). Outside of that 1994 campaign, Young didn't play that well in the playoffs. 

The turning point in the 1992 NFC title game was the holding call on the Niners OL Guy Mcntyre that negated a 70 yard Jerry Rice TD and it was all Cowboys after that. Also Rickey Watter aided the turnover battle with a costly fumble. The defense giving up that big gain to Alvin Harper was the nail in the coffin after the Niners cut it to 24-20 but that catch set up another Dallas TD and finished whatever chance they had. I know Steve Young wasn't great that game as for some reasons in those 2 years the Cowboys had his number. Later on the Packers did the same to him. I agree Steve wasn't Joe Montana in his playoff starts aside from 1994 but without him they probably don't make the playoffs those years b/c a full season of Steve Bono or Elvis Grbac or whatever backup they carried was not suffice enough. 

Look at the Niners run of contention from 1981-1998 and what was the common denominator? It was a QB play that made them a contender year in & year out. Look at why the Packers are usually in contention since 1993 e.g. Favre & Rodgers. I don't even think Favre is that great but he got a alot of breaks with risky throws. Look at the Patriots run from 2001-2019? They were going nowhere with Drew Bledsoe 0-2 and all of a sudden they discovered Tom and the entire team rallied around him.