cp0k2 Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 18 hours ago, Dr A W Niloc said: In the same sense that a medical opinion from a rando is the same as one from an examining physician, yes. Personal whim versus logical conclusion based on evidence. How does it help to conflate these two? "The 1972 Miami Dolphins were better than the 2008 Detroit Lions" is just an opinion, right? The 1975 Miami Sound Machine were a better football team than the 2008 Detroit Lions. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 15 minutes ago, notthatbluestuff said: Trevor Lawrence = first overall. Josh Allen = seventh overall. Makes sense to me. Laviska = 2nd round pick Stefon diggs = 5th round pick. Carlos Hyde - 2nd round Singletary, moss = 3rd round I'll be damned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr A W Niloc Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 12 minutes ago, notthatbluestuff said: And the Patriots clearly have the more talented group of players on offense than the Packers, Chiefs, Chargers, Bengals, Cardinals etc. Yes, but the success rates (roughly: "talent") aren't concentrated at the skill positions, as with the five other teams. It is a flat file look at a three dimensional topography. A geek thing, not for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 40 minutes ago, Dr A W Niloc said: 8th best defensive players. That's even worse once you think about who is on the Texans defense. Without resorting to Google, name me one defensive player on the Texans defense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 Just now, ET80 said: That's even worse once you think about who is on the Texans defense. Without resorting to Google, name me one defensive player on the Texans defense. It's a smart person thing, apparently. I guess it's just above our heads 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 9 minutes ago, Forge said: It's a smart person thing, apparently DE: Jon Greenard, Jamie Martin DT: Maliek Collins, Ross Blacklock OLB: Kamau Grugier-Hill, Kevin Pierre-Louis MLB: Christian Kirksey CB: Terrance Mitchell, Desmond King S: Justin Reid, Eric Murray ... someone, this collection of players is the 8th most talented collection of players in the NFL. Only takeaway I have after this? Smart people don't understand football, because this isn't a top 10 defensive roster based on players. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr A W Niloc Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 9 minutes ago, ET80 said: That's even worse once you think about who is on the Texans defense. Without resorting to Google, name me one defensive player on the Texans defense. Quite right. That should be 32nd, not 8th. Transcription error. I'll check the rest tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 Just now, Dr A W Niloc said: Quite right. That should be 32nd, not 8th. Transcription error. I'll check the rest tomorrow. I think you have three different teams at #1 on defense, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr A W Niloc Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 Just now, ET80 said: I think you have three different teams at #1 on defense, too. Yup. I should never rush a tedious job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 3 minutes ago, Dr A W Niloc said: Quite right. That should be 32nd, not 8th. Transcription error. I'll check the rest tomorrow. It still feels like there's significant subjectivity - and no real weight for a player "fitting" a scheme (let alone variances from scheme to scheme). It's a novel attempt, but it doesn't seem to take a lot into consideration when you're weighing who has the most talent and the least talent... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 9 minutes ago, ET80 said: It still feels like there's significant subjectivity - and no real weight for a player "fitting" a scheme (let alone variances from scheme to scheme). It's a novel attempt, but it doesn't seem to take a lot into consideration when you're weighing who has the most talent and the least talent... Yeah, no criteria has been given. Unsure it's accounting for health. If it does, it makes a #1 ranking for a team starting Josh Norman and Dre Kirkpatrick at corner for most of the year a little dubious. If it doesn't, you can't tell me that the pats get a bump over a team like Green Bay when a healthy Green Bay oline is pretty good with Bakhtiari and Jenkins. Feels like maybe there is a fantasy component as well, tbh. Probably needs positional weight confirmation and maybe a breakdown on depth vs superstar calculations. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr A W Niloc Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 4 minutes ago, ET80 said: It still feels like there's significant subjectivity - and no real weight for a player "fitting" a scheme (let alone variances from scheme to scheme). It's a novel attempt, but it doesn't seem to take a lot into consideration when you're weighing who has the most talent and the least talent... To be clear, the rating service provides the evaluations for each player. One could use any such data source. Hell, even Stratomatic 0-to-6 ratings. (Anyone remember those?) The unweighted data allows the user to apply whatever formula they wish. How much is a QB worth compared to, say, a LT or Strong Safety? How much more important is a team's #1 WR than its #2 or #3 WR? The flat file numbers are useful in apples to apples component comparisons (e.g. Cleveland's top 3 WRs to Green Bay's). It's also good for destinations: will such-and-such a new QB fare better in Atlanta or Detroit? The O-Line [and opponent's D-Line] configs show at a glance how often a team should run and where. Ditto the DB configs for opponent's pass targeting. (It would be nice to have a non-proportional font option here.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 So.... It's subjective? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr A W Niloc Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 6 minutes ago, Forge said: So.... It's subjective? On the part of the original rating service, you mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 6 minutes ago, Dr A W Niloc said: On the part of the original rating service, you mean? These ratings you provided. The player evaluations from the original rating service are certainly subjective. But you said: 16 minutes ago, Dr A W Niloc said: The unweighted data allows the user to apply whatever formula they wish So the original service gives whatever data without context (important), their own evaluations (subjective, though I'm assuming supported by data) and then the user just creates whatever system they want to establish a ranking 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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