Positional Needs Heading into the Offseason

[Thaiphoon]

5 hours ago, lavar703 said:

How does it have minimal ramifications? If it doesn’t work out he’d count approximately $15M towards the cap next year to not be on the team, correct? That’s opposed to absolutely nothing. Mind you, you’re better with cap implications than I am so I’ll take your word for it but zero against the cap is much better than $15M if he bombs. 

But he's counting $28M against it THIS year. Everyone is quick to fantasy land about how this is only going to be one year. You don't swap 2nds, then trade a 3rd and a future 3rd/2nd AND take on the entire cap (without asking the Colts to take on some of it) if you only looked at it as a rental.

But say you did look on it as a 1 year rental, I would still do it. He counts $28m now on this year's cap. Freeing that up allows us to sign players (our own or other teams' FA) right now. 

Converting the signing bonus spreads that cap out over 2-3 years. So he only counts about $15m this year and then (if you cut him after this year) he only counts $13m next year. Yes, he won't be on the team and it's dead cap. But you know what converting the salary did for you? It freed up space to make the team better by freeing up cap to sign our guys or add to the team.

Plus, his presence makes it so we don't have to reach for a QB we're not in love with so we can draft the BPA or trade back and add more draft capital this year (and possibly next).

But back to the salary conversion.

If I told you that we just traded for Wentz and his cap hit was $15m guaranteed this year and $13m guaranteed next year, be honest with yourself. Would you be like "oh we're stuck with him for two years"?? Or would you be like "Okay, not too bad, If he sucks after this year, we can get rid of him without too much pain as the cap goes up about $20m next year anyway"???

For me, as I've said ad nauseum, he is here at least 2 years. Because of what I've said earlier and plus because Ron is not interested in developing rookie QBs.

The conversion is such a no-brainer that of course this team isn't going to do it.

[Thaiphoon]

2 hours ago, MikeT14 said:

So take the lump now or later. Your call. 

Yup. This is where I'm at. Either do it and also do the other moves (restructure Flowers, etc...) or don't complain about how we don't have cap space to sign anyone this year.

[MKnight82]

Just now, Thaiphoon said:

or don't complain about how we don't have cap space to sign anyone this year

Let's just do this.  Stick to the draft. 

[MikeT14]

Christian Kirk lolololol

[Thaiphoon]

2 hours ago, MikeT14 said:

If we're cutting him, we're in a bad position and need to reset at QB again anyway. Which to me means we won't be using all the cap money that we need. Circle the wagons around a reset/reload again. 

At that point, we'll be with TH and a rookie we drafted (at some point Danny is gonna push for the drafted QB). So the cap hit isn't as limiting.

[Thaiphoon]

1 minute ago, MKnight82 said:

Let's just do this.  Stick to the draft. 

So don't sign any of our guys? The cap space isn't just for signing other teams' players

[MKnight82]

3 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

So don't sign any of our guys? The cap space isn't just for signing other teams' players

Like who? 

[naptownskinsfan]

5 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

Let's just do this.  Stick to the draft. 

Still need space for extensions and draft picks.  Not sure we have enough right now even for the draft picks. 

[Thaiphoon]

Just now, naptownskinsfan said:

Still need space for extensions and draft picks.  Not sure we have enough right now even for the draft picks. 

This is what I'm saying. People are acting like it's just fine to go into the draft with barely more than the rookie pool in cap space. With no other moves with contracts or cuts we'll have about $5-6m in space if Landon is pre-June and about $12m post-June. And again, post-June isn't all it's cracked up to be in terms of the timing on cap relief.

[naptownskinsfan]

6 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

This is what I'm saying. People are acting like it's just fine to go into the draft with barely more than the rookie pool in cap space. With no other moves with contracts or cuts we'll have about $5-6m in space if Landon is pre-June and about $12m post-June. And again, post-June isn't all it's cracked up to be in terms of the timing on cap relief.

Yes.  Also, contract values go up (which I assume are factored in) and you need space for in-season moves.  

[MKnight82]

UGH Mo Allie Cox back to the Colts on 3 year deal. 

[MikeT14]

5 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

UGH Mo Allie Cox back to the Colts on 3 year deal. 

Good for him though. Made a living in the NFL. 

[Thaiphoon]

1 hour ago, naptownskinsfan said:

Yes.  Also, contract values go up (which I assume are factored in) and you need space for in-season moves.  

Yup. Just looked again. My #s were off but only slightly.

Forgive me if I'm off as I'm travelling so doing this in my head.

Collins cut gives us (pre-June 1st) about $12m in cap space before the draft. Assume we need around $4.4m in the rookie pool.

This leaves only $7.6m for free agency/signing our players now AND for in-season moves. 

Now obviously this is before we start to rework other contracts, but this can be done easily and all it is, is a change of the accounting on our books. That's it. No one needs to be convinced to do it as the money is all paid the same anyway.

Now. With no other moves other than Collins' cut we'll have about $67m in cap space next year (that's including his contract. So if we keep him it's $67m - but we'll have $93m if we cut him and don't convert his salary).

Doing the conversion for Carson this year changes our 2022 cap space to $20.6m and our 2023 cap space to $80m (if we cut him after this year) (*)

Both of those #s give us plenty of space (for just the two players involved) to extend players like Terry, etc...

Those who don't want to do anything in FA will look and say...no problem I don't want us to sign anyone else's players and just build through the draft. I hear you. But it also might be good to extend/re-sign some of our guys before the contracts get even more ridiculous next year and the year after and avoid having to franchise a guy.

Those who DO want to do FA this year? Well, there's $20m to spend on our guys and another player from elsewhere. Plenty of room to make a deal that isn't too cost-prohibitive in the first year (2022) and then the cap hit rises in subsequent years.

[lavar703]

52 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

Yup. Just looked again. My #s were off but only slightly.

Forgive me if I'm off as I'm travelling so doing this in my head.

Collins cut gives us (pre-June 1st) about $12m in cap space before the draft. Assume we need around $4.4m in the rookie pool.

This leaves only $7.6m for free agency/signing our players now AND for in-season moves. 

Now obviously this is before we start to rework other contracts, but this can be done easily and all it is, is a change of the accounting on our books. That's it. No one needs to be convinced to do it as the money is all paid the same anyway.

Now. With no other moves other than Collins' cut we'll have about $67m in cap space next year (that's including his contract. So if we keep him it's $67m - but we'll have $93m if we cut him and don't convert his salary).

Doing the conversion for Carson this year changes our 2022 cap space to $20.6m and our 2023 cap space to $80m (if we cut him after this year) (*)

Both of those #s give us plenty of space (for just the two players involved) to extend players like Terry, etc...

Those who don't want to do anything in FA will look and say...no problem I don't want us to sign anyone else's players and just build through the draft. I hear you. But it also might be good to extend/re-sign some of our guys before the contracts get even more ridiculous next year and the year after and avoid having to franchise a guy.

Those who DO want to do FA this year? Well, there's $20m to spend on our guys and another player from elsewhere. Plenty of room to make a deal that isn't too cost-prohibitive in the first year (2022) and then the cap hit rises in subsequent years.

The real issue is they shouldn’t have accepted the full brunt of the Wentz contract days before free agency. It’s just a silly way to conduct business. 

[Thaiphoon]

11 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

The real issue is they shouldn’t have accepted the full brunt of the Wentz contract days before free agency. It’s just a silly way to conduct business. 

Man, I get it. I didn't want it either. But it's the reality we find ourselves in.

I'm the resident Curmudgeon. But in my daily life, I'm the guy looking for ways to get something done that people say is "impossible". When someone comes to me and says "there's a wall there, we can't get past a wall", I point out that the wall is only 2 feet high (or I point out the door just 10 feet away). Now all that is metaphorical of course, but what I'm trying to say is that I've been thrown into a ton of situations where the current status wasn't my fault and was created prior to me getting there. And my job was to guide us out of the swamp. And in doing so, I would have to make choices I didn't want to make (because they were necessitated by the stoopid moves by previous management) but allowed us to move in the direction we needed to go. So I'm approaching this as if I suddenly took over right now. I can't do anything about the Wentz trade. So what steps can I do (if I ran the team) to minimize its effect on the cap and our draft so that we can move forward? That's all I'm focusing on right now. 

Don't worry, I'll go back to hating everything about Dan Snyder andto a lesser extent the Hydra (new nickname for the 2 Martys and Ron) in the Front office soon enough. I'm just doing some theory-crafting here to see if we might be able to figure out a way to not only have FA this year but also minimize any effects on 2023 and 2024's cap.