2022 Offseason and FA Talk

[KingOfNewYork]

5 hours ago, jetsfan4life51 said:

Same that's got Seattle/Chicago written all over it.  And I don't think the value from 10 to 20 is a huge drop off.  Let's us take any position.

Possibilities at 20 could be fun. 

[Bobby816]

It's not that I hate the idea of trading back that far. But at what point are we a team that's actually grabbing talent rather than a team just stockpiling draft picks year after year. Eventually we need players not just future picks. 

[Bobby816]

Sneaky signing of DE Bradlee Anae yesterday. Liked him a lot in the draft and was very surprised he slipped to Round 5. He was pre combine looked at as a 2nd rounder. An example of how the combine can move prospects for no reason (he ran a 4.9 40). Furthermore... it's not that he was bad for Dallas... they're  just loaded with DE's. So he was the odd man out. I'd love to see him have a role on this team as a DE. 

[jetsfan4life51]

1 hour ago, Bobby816 said:

It's not that I hate the idea of trading back that far. But at what point are we a team that's actually grabbing talent rather than a team just stockpiling draft picks year after year. Eventually we need players not just future picks. 

We have #4 to grab talent.  Only guys at 10 I would have to have are Ojabo and Lindy.  Hamilton if he falls.

[jetfuel34]

1 hour ago, Bobby816 said:

It's not that I hate the idea of trading back that far. But at what point are we a team that's actually grabbing talent rather than a team just stockpiling draft picks year after year. Eventually we need players not just future picks. 

I see your point but I also would like to add if your looking at 3 or 4 guys you like at 10 then one of them will be there at 20. Once you get to 10 then the draft really starts. You have your top 8 guys who will be in the top 10. No matter where those 8 fall they are taking 8 of the top 10 spots. Then you have your next wave of 10 plus that will go in the next 12 picks or so. So by trading down you get a guy you want plus a 3rd round this year and a 1st next year for doing nothing but trading and still getting your guy. That is called rebuild through the draft. You keep getting your guy plus picks for that draft a next years draft. Keeping building that draft capital and getting your guy is the best situation possible.

[jetsfan4life51]

Burks/Linderbaum/Ojabo?/Cross/Gardner

vs

WRs/OL/CB (a lot of guys in the same tier, some may fall from 10) PLUS 3rd rounder like iOL depth or RB to pair with Carter AND an outside shot of a top 10 pick next year for even more talent.

I think only way we don't do it is if Hamilton is there at 10.  I can get on board with having a dynamic Safety after grabbing a top 4 pick.

[GangGreen420]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/jetsxfactor.com/2022/01/19/quinnen-williams-rank-nfl-dt/amp/
 

No second contract please, unless he wants to be paid like a JAG 

[xrade]

Just looking at the positions where the big money goes here's the list:

Tier 1  -  QB

Tier 2 - WR, EDGE, LT

Tier 3 - iDL, CB, RT

Tier 4 - OG, S

Tier 5 - LB, TE, OC,RB

From a strictly financial standpoint on a rebuilding team, this tells me is that you want to draft the guys in tiers 1 and 2 and maybe 3 and use FA for tiers 3-5.  I am mostly referring to top performing players.  For example, getting a WR3/4 in FA is fine, but if you want a WR1/2 in FA be prepared to to pay.  How does this relate to the current Jets team?  Simple, we should be looking to get tier 4/5 guys in FA, while drafting tiers 1-3.

Relating to needs this year, draft WR, EDGE, and CB at the top of the draft and get a S, LB, TE and iOL in FA.  I left out LT, RT, and iDL because we most likely don't need one this year depending on Becton.  What this does not take into account is the talent in the top 10 of the draft.  If the only blue chip talent is S and OT at 4, the smart money says go OT, the needs say S.  This is where the GM earns his keep.

[doumeyer]

10 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

It's not that I hate the idea of trading back that far. But at what point are we a team that's actually grabbing talent rather than a team just stockpiling draft picks year after year. Eventually we need players not just future picks. 

You are 100 % CORRECT. we need star players, now we have several good young players. We need game changers not a bunch of future draft picks. How much longer do we want to have three or four win seasons. This current post you just made is the best post in 2022.

[Bobby816]

13 hours ago, doumeyer said:

You are 100 % CORRECT. we need star players, now we have several good young players. We need game changers not a bunch of future draft picks. How much longer do we want to have three or four win seasons. This current post you just made is the best post in 2022.

My point is merely that we're starting to become a franchise (we actually are already this, I'm just being generous) that's in a constant state of rebuilding. And we're always looking to the future and draft picks. The time has come that we need to make those draft picks players and not just future draft picks. I don't want to hear there's no big difference between 10-20. If that were the case the guys drafted at 20 would be drafted at 10.

 

Lets take the last couple drafts for example....

2021: 10: Devonta Smith drafted at 10, Kadarius Toney drafted at 20. Smith had 920yds and 5 TDs, Toney 420yds 0 TDs.

2020: Jedrick Wills drafted at 10, K'Lavon Chaisson at 20. Wills is an average OLineman for CLE. Chaisson has been just awful through 2 seasons. 

 

There's a big drop off moving 10 spots. And I don't really want to hear this draft is different. No it's not. There's a reason why players every draft go 1st overall instead of 11th. There's a reason guys go 10th instead of 20th. There's a reason why goes go 20th and not fall to Round 2. It's time to grab talent, not load up on more picks. 

 

[jetsfan4life51]

12 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

My point is merely that we're starting to become a franchise (we actually are already this, I'm just being generous) that's in a constant state of rebuilding. And we're always looking to the future and draft picks. The time has come that we need to make those draft picks players and not just future draft picks. I don't want to hear there's no big difference between 10-20. If that were the case the guys drafted at 20 would be drafted at 10.

 

Lets take the last couple drafts for example....

2021: 10: Devonta Smith drafted at 10, Kadarius Toney drafted at 20. Smith had 920yds and 5 TDs, Toney 420yds 0 TDs.

2020: Jedrick Wills drafted at 10, K'Lavon Chaisson at 20. Wills is an average OLineman for CLE. Chaisson has been just awful through 2 seasons. 

 

There's a big drop off moving 10 spots. And I don't really want to hear this draft is different. No it's not. There's a reason why players every draft go 1st overall instead of 11th. There's a reason guys go 10th instead of 20th. There's a reason why goes go 20th and not fall to Round 2. It's time to grab talent, not load up on more picks. 

 

That's a terrible argument.  First example, Toney was hurt (which is a knock) and on what turned out to be the biggest joke of a team this season.  And they have #7 overall to pair with him.  But at least you compared two different positions.

In 2020, Chaisson wasn't a good prospect to begin with and a poorly graded pick.  2 picks later was Justin Jefferson.  It goes both ways and you also compared two different positions.

Unless we get Hamilton at 10, there may not be a huge drop off for what positions we would be drafting.  I'd imagine the choices are Edge, OL, WR and CB.  CB we can get at 20, WR we can get at 20, plenty of OL to go around.  We'll see how edge stacks up and who we take at 4.

I'm not saying it's the best move but I don't mind the idea of another future 1st.  Let's see what needs we fill in FA before we debate any further.

[Bobby816]

2 minutes ago, jetsfan4life51 said:

That's a terrible argument.  First example, Toney was hurt (which is a knock) and on what turned out to be the biggest joke of a team this season.  And they have #7 overall to pair with him.  But at least you compared two different positions.

In 2020, Chaisson wasn't a good prospect to begin with and a poorly graded pick.  2 picks later was Justin Jefferson.  It goes both ways and you also compared two different positions.

Unless we get Hamilton at 10, there may not be a huge drop off for what positions we would be drafting.  I'd imagine the choices are Edge, OL, WR and CB.  CB we can get at 20, WR we can get at 20, plenty of OL to go around.  We'll see how edge stacks up and who we take at 4.

I'm not saying it's the best move but I don't mind the idea of another future 1st.  Let's see what needs we fill in FA before we debate any further.

I understand what you're saying but the board changes 10 picks later. Lets for example say that we want an OLineman at 10 bc we drafted an Edge at 4. We liked 3 OLineman and graded them top 10 talents in Neal, Ikem and Linderbaum. We trade back to 20 and get a 1st next year but all 3 are gone by 20. The board completely changes for us now. It's not as simple as say well then draft the next best OLineman at 20. It's how they have the prospects graded then. So where they had 3 OLineman graded top 10. Maybe the next graded OLIneman for them is 25. So they're not taking them at 20. So you cant use the position to position argument. If that's the case... I'd yes bet a lot of money that Neal, Ikem and Lindy will have better careers than guys like Green and Nicholas Petit-Frere.

 

But lets just look at the guys that might be around at 10 and the guys that might be around at 20.

10: Karlaftis, Stingley, Booth, Ojabo, Lindy, J.Williams, Burks, Green, Cross are some of the top names (as of now)

20: Gardner, Lloyd, Cam Thomas, Leal, Olave, Wilson, Brisker are some of the names (as of now)

 

Now this is a personal opinion. But I see a big drop off everywhere except CB. And that's bc I don't rate Stingley that high and think all the CBs in Gardner, Booth and Elam have cases to actually be better than Stingley. That being said... I don't see us going CB at 4, 10 or 20. But that's just a guess. But everywhere else I see a huge drop off. Karflaftis and Ojabo to Cam Thomas or Johnson for me is a big drop off. Jameson Williams and Burks to Olave and Wilson is a big drop off IMO. Linderbaum and Cross to NPF and Johnson is a big drop off IMO. I can keep going. I've always been outward that I don't value LB enough to draft them round 1. I know a lot of you LOVE Lloyd and trust me I like him as a player... but I like a guy like Christian Harris just as much and we can get him in Round 2 for example. There's loads of talented LBs that can be had in the 2nd and 3rd area like Dean, Harris, Clark, Walker, Smith, Muma, Chenal just to name a few. LB just isn't a premium position in todays NFL that its worth spending a 1st on IMO. When you're a rebuilding team like us... we need to be getting premium positions with premium picks. The LOS and skill position players is where that is in todays NFL. Our top 4 picks should be used on these areas, Go OL, DE, WR and something else (maybe TE) with those 4 picks.

[doumeyer]

I am really struggling to figure this guy Mims out

In 2020 he had 23 receptions for 357 yards his per catch average of 15.5 yards per catch

in 2021  he had 8  receptions  for 135 yards his per catch average of 16.6 yards per catch

His Average yards per catch is outstanding but the amount of times he was target it and the amount of ball he caught is horrible.

I sure don' think we can blame Wilson, for the Mims failure.

[Bobby816]

3 minutes ago, doumeyer said:

I am really struggling to figure this guy Mims out

In 2020 he had 23 receptions for 357 yards his per catch average of 15.5 yards per catch

in 2021  he had 8  receptions  for 135 yards his per catch average of 16.6 yards per catch

His Average yards per catch is outstanding but the amount of times he was target it and the amount of ball he caught is horrible.

I sure don' think we can blame Wilson, for the Mims failure.

There's a few different takes on this...

1. He just isn't that good. He is very talented and I'll stand by that. So I'm not buying this.

2. He cant grasp the system. This actually would be the best case for us and is what I think it is. A whole offseason to learn the playbook more and grasp things to make him not think too much, can only benefit him.

3. He has poor work ethic. I don't buy this either. I don't see a guy like Mims getting praised for how hard he was working if they have poor work ethic. Coaches don't do that. They might say he's working or whatever. But everything from the staff all year was saying how hard he works.

4. The good 'ol 3rd Year WR Rule that has some validity. WRs sometimes take 2 full years to learn things. Especially when they come from offenses like Mims did. Where they just won with talent and now have to polish their route running,, find holes in zones, be on the same page as the QB, etc. History has shown that a lot of WRs take a big leap in Year 3. Maybe this happens with him. I wouldn't hold my breath on it bc he might be far down the depth chart. But I'll still be routing for him.

[jetfuel34]

3 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

My point is merely that we're starting to become a franchise (we actually are already this, I'm just being generous) that's in a constant state of rebuilding. And we're always looking to the future and draft picks. The time has come that we need to make those draft picks players and not just future draft picks. I don't want to hear there's no big difference between 10-20. If that were the case the guys drafted at 20 would be drafted at 10.

 

Lets take the last couple drafts for example....

2021: 10: Devonta Smith drafted at 10, Kadarius Toney drafted at 20. Smith had 920yds and 5 TDs, Toney 420yds 0 TDs.

2020: Jedrick Wills drafted at 10, K'Lavon Chaisson at 20. Wills is an average OLineman for CLE. Chaisson has been just awful through 2 seasons. 

 

There's a big drop off moving 10 spots. And I don't really want to hear this draft is different. No it's not. There's a reason why players every draft go 1st overall instead of 11th. There's a reason guys go 10th instead of 20th. There's a reason why goes go 20th and not fall to Round 2. It's time to grab talent, not load up on more picks. 

 

I see what you are trying to say here but every draft is different. Some drafts are just loaded with talent and others you have almost no too little talent. 

Just look at all the high draft picks the Jets took that ended as bust. I think it all comes down to does the player fit your the position you want him in. Why draft a CB that is very good in zone but you play man to man a lot and think he will be good in man to man. Now there are some guys that will do well in both man to man and zone. Stingley I think can do what ever and he will be a stud. Remember this is just one position I picked too.