Do you see what I see?

[armsteeld]

1 hour ago, 43M said:

While you are correct, its more about a QBs ability to actually go through those reads and not decide to run every time that first read isnt there.

I havent watched enough of Eleby to be able to accurately judge him, but thats part of the reason Im not extremely high on Willis.   He takes off so often after his first read, and while those things can be corrected, its not an easy correction in the pros.   Thats why so many mobile QBs dont have lasting success in the pros....because they played in simplified offenses where they were so used to running being their first instinct rather than breaking down the defense with their eyes.   Its an uphill battle to change those habits.

True. Most college coaches get some of those dual talented QBs and don't develop them. I had another thread detailing Hugh Freeze's system but it's basically half field reads. Question is can that player show marked improvement.

[armsteeld]

Malik Willis. Watch these two cutups and tell me what you see.

 

[MOSteelers56]

22 minutes ago, armsteeld said:

Malik Willis. Watch these two cutups and tell me what you see.

 

He was definitely the only one on Liberty’s offense that had any business on the field with Ole Miss. He’s definitely got some talent. Looks like a lot of heart too. It’s really up to him how good he becomes(obviously he has to get into a good situation, but that’s true of every prospect). If he goes into a good system and works hard on his technique, he can be really good. His height still worries me, but he’s pretty much the same size as Kordell was. He reminds me a lot of Kordell, honestly. Just Stewart went to a bigger school. I wouldn’t mind taking him at #20, but I’m not sure that’ll be possible.

[43M]

19 minutes ago, armsteeld said:

Malik Willis. Watch these two cutups and tell me what you see.

 

That Ole Miss game was really ugly, but the OL did him zero favors.    Still, aside from arm strength and speed....not much positive to take away.  

I just dont see anything that makes him 1st rd caliber.   Yes, he has the physical tools, but those alone dont make a QB worth a high pick.    Outside of pure arm strength, the skills I value in a PASSER just arent on a first round level.   Not even 2nd really.    Right now....I just see an extremely athletic guy thats a slighty above average passer.   Upside is the ONLY reason he'll get taken early....I just hope it isnt us.

[MOSteelers56]

2 minutes ago, 43M said:

That Ole Miss game was really ugly, but the OL did him zero favors.    Still, aside from arm strength and speed....not much positive to take away.  

I just dont see anything that makes him 1st rd caliber.   Yes, he has the physical tools, but those alone dont make a QB worth a high pick.    Outside of pure arm strength, the skills I value in a PASSER just arent on a first round level.   Not even 2nd really.    Right now....I just see an extremely athletic guy thats a slighty above average passer.   Upside is the ONLY reason he'll get taken early....I just hope it isnt us.

I came away pretty impressed by his Ole Miss game. Most of his mistakes were desperation heaves or his teammates blowing it. I think he’d be a good fit for what it seems we’re trying to do on offense. He just has to stay healthy and keep progressing when he gets in the league. Easier said than done.

[armsteeld]

3 minutes ago, 43M said:

That Ole Miss game was really ugly, but the OL did him zero favors.    Still, aside from arm strength and speed....not much positive to take away.  

I just dont see anything that makes him 1st rd caliber.   Yes, he has the physical tools, but those alone dont make a QB worth a high pick.    Outside of pure arm strength, the skills I value in a PASSER just arent on a first round level.   Not even 2nd really.    Right now....I just see an extremely athletic guy thats a slighty above average passer.   Upside is the ONLY reason he'll get taken early....I just hope it isnt us.

Ball Placement in those clips was damn near perfect. He threw guys open, bought time with his athleticism, threw with touch, threaded the needle by splitting the defense with a quick read and pin point accuracy on tight-line throws. Watching other QBs and they throw those shorter routes but Liberty and Willis were attacking deep. 

Imagine him throwing deep to our receivers. Imagine a Pistol based RPO concept spread offense with Najee Harris and Malik Willis. That's scary good.

[armsteeld]

2 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said:

I came away pretty impressed by his Ole Miss game. Most of his mistakes were desperation heaves or his teammates blowing it. I think he’d be a good fit for what it seems we’re trying to do on offense. He just has to stay healthy and keep progressing when he gets in the league. Easier said than done.

Exactly. Remember how we talked about RBs and can they create when nothing is there? That's what I was seeing in the Ole Miss game. They were outmatched all over the field and Willis helped keep them competitive. That speaks volumes to me.

[43M]

1 hour ago, armsteeld said:

Ball Placement in those clips was damn near perfect.

I think thats REALLY stretching it.   He was 16/25 in that game with 3 INTs.    Im not bringing up his statline to rag on him since he didnt have much help, but several of those incompletions/INTs were bad throws or decisions on his end, and most of his completions were underneath throws.   Again, Im not knocking him for that because he wasnt getting much help....but there wasnt alot of room to really judge his ball placement since so many of his throws were screens, checkdowns and short throws to mostly open receivers.

2:25
6:15
6:54

Those were the only throws that impressed me at all.   There were some other pretty good ones, but not really throws that got me excited.

Bottom line....that Ole Miss game isnt a really good game to judge him on.    I wouldnt blast him since had had little to no help most of the game, but there was also nothing that made me think I was watching a future star NFL QB.

 

1 hour ago, armsteeld said:

He threw guys open, bought time with his athleticism, threw with touch, threaded the needle by splitting the defense with a quick read and pin point accuracy on tight-line throws.

What are the time stamps of these throws that impressed you?     Like I said...I only found 3 that really stood out to me.

 

1 hour ago, armsteeld said:

Imagine him throwing deep to our receivers. Imagine a Pistol based RPO concept spread offense with Najee Harris and Malik Willis. That's scary good.

I wouldnt mind getting him in general.   I just have no desire to spend a first round pick on him.      Too many red flags and for a team in our position, Im not on board with that kind of risk.      

 

2 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said:

I came away pretty impressed by his Ole Miss game. Most of his mistakes were desperation heaves or his teammates blowing it. I think he’d be a good fit for what it seems we’re trying to do on offense. He just has to stay healthy and keep progressing when he gets in the league. Easier said than done.

Several of those passes were horrid decisions.    That first INT at 3:05,  he had a clean pocket and the safety watched him the entire way and baited him.  He pretty much stared that WR down and paid for it.

Again, I wouldnt use that game to really make much of a decision on him.    There are good and bad things you can take away from that performance, but it was largely a wash.

Once again....I wouldnt mind having Willis on our roster.   My entire issues comes down to spending a first round pick on him, especially with the team we currently have.

In the end, my feelings mean absolutely nothing.    if the Steelers like him enough and he is there....they will take him.   If that happens, I wont be happy....but I will support him like I do every other prospect we take I dont like and hope I am wrong.

I havent watched every snap Willis has played or even half of them.....but Ive seen and learned enough over the last few months to know I wouldnt touch him in the first round....and if it werent for how weak this QB class is, I doubt any team would.

[Big Snack]

I'll make the comparison again here as I have before. He is a comparable prospect as to Jalen Hurts. He is just as polished as Hurts was coming out with a bit stronger arm. Both are 1 read and go guys. Hurts is a lil more stout in stature but not as fast in his straight line speed.  Hurts was a later 2nd round pick and in a normal qb draft I think Willis is drafted mid to late 2nd also. With no clear franchise possible options at the top of the draft he will jump way up the boards because of his boom potential. 

Personally I  would maybe even be comfortable with drafting him at the end of the 1st ala Lamar Jackson to have a 5th year option but I  don't see him lasting that long and would not want to spend pick 20 on him.

[armsteeld]

2 hours ago, 43M said:

I think thats REALLY stretching it.   He was 16/25 in that game with 3 INTs.    Im not bringing up his statline to rag on him since he didnt have much help, but several of those incompletions/INTs were bad throws or decisions on his end, and most of his completions were underneath throws.   Again, Im not knocking him for that because he wasnt getting much help....but there wasnt alot of room to really judge his ball placement since so many of his throws were screens, checkdowns and short throws to mostly open receivers.

2:25
6:15
6:54

Those were the only throws that impressed me at all.   There were some other pretty good ones, but not really throws that got me excited.

Bottom line....that Ole Miss game isnt a really good game to judge him on.    I wouldnt blast him since had had little to no help most of the game, but there was also nothing that made me think I was watching a future star NFL QB.

 

What are the time stamps of these throws that impressed you?     Like I said...I only found 3 that really stood out to me.

 

I wouldnt mind getting him in general.   I just have no desire to spend a first round pick on him.      Too many red flags and for a team in our position, Im not on board with that kind of risk.      

 

Several of those passes were horrid decisions.    That first INT at 3:05,  he had a clean pocket and the safety watched him the entire way and baited him.  He pretty much stared that WR down and paid for it.

Again, I wouldnt use that game to really make much of a decision on him.    There are good and bad things you can take away from that performance, but it was largely a wash.

Once again....I wouldnt mind having Willis on our roster.   My entire issues comes down to spending a first round pick on him, especially with the team we currently have.

In the end, my feelings mean absolutely nothing.    if the Steelers like him enough and he is there....they will take him.   If that happens, I wont be happy....but I will support him like I do every other prospect we take I dont like and hope I am wrong.

I havent watched every snap Willis has played or even half of them.....but Ive seen and learned enough over the last few months to know I wouldnt touch him in the first round....and if it werent for how weak this QB class is, I doubt any team would.

I'm talking about the highlight video in regards to him throwing guys open and the ball placement. Vs Ole Miss he had no time yet his surrounding cast wasn't able to compete with Ole Miss. Ole Miss is one of the more talented SEC rosters so Liberty had no chance.

[armsteeld]

2 hours ago, Big Snack said:

I'll make the comparison again here as I have before. He is a comparable prospect as to Jalen Hurts. He is just as polished as Hurts was coming out with a bit stronger arm. Both are 1 read and go guys. Hurts is a lil more stout in stature but not as fast in his straight line speed.  Hurts was a later 2nd round pick and in a normal qb draft I think Willis is drafted mid to late 2nd also. With no clear franchise possible options at the top of the draft he will jump way up the boards because of his boom potential. 

Personally I  would maybe even be comfortable with drafting him at the end of the 1st ala Lamar Jackson to have a 5th year option but I  don't see him lasting that long and would not want to spend pick 20 on him.

I think that's a bad comparison. Jalen Hurts was absolutely atrocious at Alabama but he became better with Oklahoma. The level of talent surrounding Hurts vs Willis is not even close. I think many people are lazily labeling Willis as 1 read and run. I'm no QB guru but I have watched enough games to know that narrative is false. 

[armsteeld]

Unpopular opinion but if we aren't able to draft Malik Willis, I'd draft WR Treylon Burks if he's available. I know. I know. We need OL players. The fans & media thought the same thing with the Bengals and they went and got Jamar Chase. We all know how that went. Burks is every but the prospect that Chase was except he's bigger and possibly faster. He's 6'3 225 and I'm projecting him to run 4.3 in the 40 yard dash. He's a combat catcher. He's good after the catch. He's a solid blocker. He's an excellent deep threat. He runs good routes. He's young. He's everything we wanted Chase Claypool to be. He also has size 10 1/4" hands and was clocked at 22.6 mph on the field! Doesn't matter the QB when you have Burks, Johnson, and Claypool to throw to (it does but you know what I'm saying).

 

[jebrick]

The Bengals had a QB.  Drafting a Wr high for the Steelers would be an epic fail.  Here is the list of players that need to be taken before they draft a WR

1. Ikem Ekwonu
2. Evan Neal
3. Charles Cross
4. Trevor Penning
5. Kenyon Green
6. Zion Johnson
7. Kayvon Thibodeaux
8. Kyle Hamilton
9. Aidan Hutchinson
10. Derek Stingley Jr.
11. Andrew Booth Jr.
12. Devin Lloyd
13. David Ojabo
14. Ahmad Gardner
15. Roger McCreary
16. Nakobe Dean
17. Jaquan Brisker
18. Jermaine Johnson

Any of these I would consider superior to a WR.   I don't even like Lloyd and Dean but they are better than a WR. Even if it is Jameson Williams ( who I like).  This Wr is so so deep.  A Wr would be such a luxury pick. 

 

[armsteeld]

42 minutes ago, jebrick said:

The Bengals had a QB.  Drafting a Wr high for the Steelers would be an epic fail.  Here is the list of players that need to be taken before they draft a WR

1. Ikem Ekwonu
2. Evan Neal
3. Charles Cross
4. Trevor Penning
5. Kenyon Green
6. Zion Johnson
7. Kayvon Thibodeaux
8. Kyle Hamilton
9. Aidan Hutchinson
10. Derek Stingley Jr.
11. Andrew Booth Jr.
12. Devin Lloyd
13. David Ojabo
14. Ahmad Gardner
15. Roger McCreary
16. Nakobe Dean
17. Jaquan Brisker
18. Jermaine Johnson

Any of these I would consider superior to a WR.   I don't even like Lloyd and Dean but they are better than a WR. Even if it is Jameson Williams ( who I like).  This Wr is so so deep.  A Wr would be such a luxury pick. 

 

C'mon man. Most of that list will be gone before we pick. Burks may be gone also. If I give Rudolph, Haskins, or whomever QB that many weapons, it makes it harder for them to fail. I'd rather draft a superstar WR than an average OL. We have 6 draft picks and FA. No WR in FA can offer what Burks does but you can find similar or better OL talent in FA.

[armsteeld]

47 minutes ago, jebrick said:

The Bengals had a QB.  Drafting a Wr high for the Steelers would be an epic fail.  Here is the list of players that need to be taken before they draft a WR

1. Ikem Ekwonu
2. Evan Neal
3. Charles Cross
4. Trevor Penning
5. Kenyon Green
6. Zion Johnson
7. Kayvon Thibodeaux
8. Kyle Hamilton
9. Aidan Hutchinson
10. Derek Stingley Jr.
11. Andrew Booth Jr.
12. Devin Lloyd
13. David Ojabo
14. Ahmad Gardner
15. Roger McCreary
16. Nakobe Dean
17. Jaquan Brisker
18. Jermaine Johnson

Any of these I would consider superior to a WR.   I don't even like Lloyd and Dean but they are better than a WR. Even if it is Jameson Williams ( who I like).  This Wr is so so deep.  A Wr would be such a luxury pick. 

 

How is WR a luxury when you only have 1 proven WR on your roster?